Homosexuality and Religion

[Mike182]

Look, sex IS used for other puproses but that doesn't mean it wasn't jsut designed for procreation. Look, a wrench is designed to be a tool, I can use it as a weapon but it was DESIGNED for another purpose. Just because you use it for something else, doesn't make it right.

and i don't believe sex outside of a procreative, heterosexual marriage is wrong. i believe condemning the expressions of love between people to be wrong.

 

[rheff78]

So you jsut bypass what I said. And besides, if you love the person, why not marry them?

 

[Mike182]

So you jsut bypass what I said. And besides, if you love the person, why not marry them?

then allow gays marriage rights... but even then, why should i wait till i'm married?

andto keep with your analogy, i don't see anything wrong with using a wrench as a weapon... whether it was designed to be used as such or not.

 

[rheff78]

then allow gays marriage rights... but even then, why should i wait till i'm married?

andto keep with your analogy, i don't see anything wrong with using a wrench as a weapon... whether it was designed to be used as such or not.

Then my point still stands, it wa designed to use as a tool, even if you use it as a weapon, you're using it incorrectly, regardless of how you see it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh I am sorry, I forgot the Christians do not beleive in the whole bible they only beleive in John 3:16 (This is the teaching of the church, not the bible. when the Christian missionaries meet us on the streets, he wont talk abnout hygeine, ethics and morality he will only talk about John 3:16, the only thing he will tell us is that you dont have salvation)

The bible clearly states that: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil Mathew 5:17 (Jesus came to fulfil not destroy the old law, the claim made by the Chrsitians is that Jesus abolished the old Law for the Christians, this is not true)

So the law is fulfilled; it's complete. And the Epistles have a fair bit to say on the subject of the Law. For example, have a look at Romans 7:4-6:

4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

in the following verse: Mathew 5:20 except your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisies you shall by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. (How can Christians be better than the Jews by not keeping the commandments)

Mathew 5:19 - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Anyperson who breaks the least command shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven).

If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" Matthew 19:17. said by Jesus.

You left out the first part of that verse: "'Why do you ask me about what is good?' Jesus replied. 'There is only One who is good.'" In the theology of most Christian denominations, nobody but Jesus Christ is worthy of Heaven: nobody but Him has any right to be there, but He gives it as an undeserved gift. You say that homosexuality makes some people unworthy of Heaven? Apparently, everybody is already unworthy of Heaven.

Also, read on in the chapter to verse 29:

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

I'm not familiar with any translation that adds "...unless they engage in homosexuality" to the end of that verse.

but now these Christians have a nice way out they yes Jesus kept the commandments and ordained it but Paul saw a vision of Jesus in his Dream and Jesus told him the commandments are abolished
We should follow the Master Jesus not Paul, Some scholars claim that he only saw Christ once or twice. If Jesus wanted to ammend the commandments he should have came in all our dreams so that there wont be a conflict, again i say Follow Christianity not Paulinity. dont underestimate a very least commandment.

I've got problems with some of the Epistles, too, but I recognize that the teachings of Paul (or authors purporting to be Paul, but that's a whole other issue) are very important to many Christians. If you're asking Christians to disregard a large part of the Bible to accept your point of view, then you're not really basing your argument on the Christian religion.

For lack of a shoe, a soldier was lost. For lack of a soldier, a battle was lost. For lack of a battle the war was lost.

Not sure where you're going with this, but for some reason, it puts me in mind of 1 Corinthians 13.

David and Jonathon praticed Homosexuality, so did Samson had sex with a prostitute, and Judah with his daughter-in-law so is this acceptable as well. because neither did Samson or Judah repented. so if Homosexuality if permitted in the bible it should be also natural that Incest is also permitted. because there is 1 case of Homosexuality but 10 cases of incest..

Exactly we beleive that all the Prophets they had the knowledge of all the doctors, health inspectors, dietians, all worldly knowledge they would have. Our Almighty God he is the best doctor than all the doctors which have been, are , will be. so, No matter it is Adam, Eve, Moses or Jesus it doesnt make a difference, they have not permitted Homosexuality.

"Everything is permissible" - 1 Corinthians 10:23.

In Islam, i dont know about other religions, having sex with our own wife is also one of the pleasures but only forbidden during the mensuratiuon period, other than that there is no maximum age for Sex. with your own wife it is encouraged, it is sinful with other womens who are not married to you.

So... what you're saying is that even after a woman has gone through menopause and is incapable of having children, it's still not sinful for her to have sex with her husband. Therefore, it's not always necessary for sex to have the potential for children.

And since it's not always necessary for sex to have the potential for children, the mere fact that homosexual sex is non-procreative is not by itself a proper justification for condemning it.

I dont think you understood where did eating came in.

My point is just that lots of things we do cannot result in children. Most are not considered sinful just because of this. You claimed that homosexual acts are sinful because they won't create children; well, eating my dinner won't create children either, but I have yet to be told by anyone that eating dinner is a sinful act.

Just answer a simple question can a guy and a guy beget a son. yes or no.

They can beget a son just as much as an elderly husband and wife can beget one.

see you dont understand, when we meant marrying a girl it is commanding the Faithful men, how does it promotes lesbianism.

You said that marrying a woman brings a person closer to God. Therefore, if a woman marries a woman, that woman is closer to God.

Are women not permitted to become closer to God?

So, giving the examples my ex-girls dogs, you behave like dogs than, what can i say. No wonder mankind is getting sicker because they are following the habits of dogs. keep up the good work

We have lots of similarities with dogs; we're both mammals, both social animals, etc., etc. Just because dogs do something doesn't mean its "sick".

But back up a moment: I never tried to justify homosexuality on the basis that if dogs do it, we should do it to. You implied that humans shouldn't engage in homosexuality because not even animals do. All I'm saying is that your original claim was factually incorrect (not to mention fallacious).

 

[Promulgatious]

Duetoronomy and a conscience should be all that is needed for this.

 

[Romulus]

Allow me to begin by saying that I applaud the mod for reminding us all that this is not a debate forum. That being said, I'm going to put an opinion in--please let me know if this crosses the line.

I think the reason so many people (religious or otherwise) are against homosexuality is because they aren't gay. A lot of us have some form of homophobia that we have to overcome when we're initially faced with a person our responses tell us to compete with that is attracted to our gender. That does not mean that that excuses homophobia or that most people do not quickly get over it, but I don't think it's that strange to be suspicious of something different--that's part of human nature.

You can argue for and against homosexual acts and homosexuality itself as much as you want, but the fact remains that in Christianity (because this thread was started as a question about Christianity), there are many opinions—even among gay Christians, as I learned from the link I (kind of) posted earlier. You cannot pin down an entire religious group with one view, as easy as it is to this, intentionally or not.

Basically, I'm not debating things like lifestyle, choices, or sex, but my point is about the orientation itself. Whether you belief it's a blessing, a curse, a challenge, or neutral, homosexual orientation is (in many cases, at least) something that cannot be healthily changed. Most people who are gay have tried to be straight at some point in their lives—who would honestly choose to do something considered morally reprehensible and wrong by so many people—who would choose to be alienated in that way, to face the possibility of rejection by people close to them? Most of the time, they can't become attracted to the opposite sex any more than any of us can become attracted to the same sex (assuming that most of the posters are heterosexual and ignoring small tendencies, phases, etc that most people go through).

Anyway, that's my opinion, as biased as anyone else's by religion, gender, and orientation.

*awaits being ripped apart...*

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Duetoronomy and a conscience should be all that is needed for this.

At least in my case, those two things are incompatible.

 

[Somkid]

It's ok with Buddhism, some Buddhists are kind of weird about it but nothing in the teachings are against it and it is not considered unnatural, however we do not believe in god.

 

[painted wolf]

My faith has no issue with sexuality. In many First Nations gay/lesbian/trans people were respected and even celebrated as a bridge between the genders.

wa:do

 

[Father Heathen]

Duetoronomy and a conscience should be all that is needed for this.

It is because of the latter that I reject the former. Besides, the bible is only relevant to those who believe in it.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's ok with Buddhism, some Buddhists are kind of weird about it but nothing in the teachings are against it and it is not considered unnatural, however we do not believe in god.

I remember reading somewhere a while back that the Dali Lama denounced homosexuality, but of course he only represents a particular sect of Buddhism.

 

[nawab]

From what your replies, i think Jesus destroyed the law rather then fulfilling it, The Jews kept the commandments and PAul later dreams about Jesus that evrything is permissable. so whats the difference between Jesus Law and savagery. when everything is permissible dont quote Corinthians, romans they are written by Paul, lets stay on Mathew, Mark, John, Luke. I dont know if you know what is a red letter bible (A red letter bible is suppose any words said by Jesus is in red Ink and others in Black ink) so the verses you quote are from Paul not Jesus. The Law have yet to be kept.

Exactly when Jesus is refusing to be called Good, and the whole Christiandom say he is God, however this is a different topic. So, now everybody is unworthy of heaven why should anybody be unworthy of heaven, when you do good deeds, why should i go to Hell and am not worthy of heaven. pls explain.

Christians claim to be follwoing the whole bible which they are not, they only beleieve in John 3:16
they want to make thier religion so easy so that they can catch fish, get more followers, in otherwords more money, do you know that if you guys have money you can buy certificates of sins which you have not commmited but are planing to commit from the Pope you can Prepay for sins, the Christian world is so sophistiocated. Imagine you have made the religion into an enterprise.you can also buy a certificate to Paradise. I am sure you have them if not dont forget to buy them, the day of ressurection is near. I can teach you a way of doing business buy more certs and sell them is US for a price higher, so people wont be going to the Vatician but buying from you.

Everything is permissable (this is not Jesus who said it is paul ref. Red letter bible) which means prostitution, incest, adultry, idoltry, rape, murder, any savagery you can think about it is allowed in the Christian world.

When a human being marrys he becomes closer to God, whether it is a Man to a woman or a woman to a man but has to be of opposite sex to come closer to God, in Islam Marriage and Pregnancy uplifts a womans status, not like the bible You women you shall be cursed, you will multiply and bear labour pain.

 

[Autodidact]

If Bible is not against Homosexuality, then why was Prophet Lut (Lot) nation destroyed, why was the wrath of God almight released on Sodom & Gomorrah.

Inhospitality and selfishness.

If God Almighty wanted to make Homosexuality Legal, at least Jesus would have allowed it, Which he didnt.

In fact He never mentions it.

The best sign is that even Animals of the lower functions dont practice homosexuality,

Yes, they do. Would you like me to cite the studies?

we Humans who are supposed to be the Vice Regents of God on earth are doing these sick acts. God made a man and a woman for a reason, a seed can only be produced by a Male & Female. Can two guys or two girls together get pregnet, i hardly doubt it.

So? Neither can an elderly heterosexual couple, does that make their love wrong?

Now the Christians have allowed Homosexuality, later they will allow Prostitution & Beastiality, and later to worship Satan. Because these things were also not forbidden in the bible.

You're mistaken.

Now back to Islam to be nearer to God you have to get marry with a girl. you cant even stay virgin all your life.

O.K., I think that rules that religion out for our OP. Good job at preventing another convert, nawab.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From what your replies, i think Jesus destroyed the law rather then fulfilling it, The Jews kept the commandments and PAul later dreams about Jesus that evrything is permissable. so whats the difference between Jesus Law and savagery. when everything is permissible dont quote Corinthians, romans they are written by Paul, lets stay on Mathew, Mark, John, Luke. I dont know if you know what is a red letter bible (A red letter bible is suppose any words said by Jesus is in red Ink and others in Black ink) so the verses you quote are from Paul not Jesus. The Law have yet to be kept.

The Christian religion chose not to stay on Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; why exactly do you disregard Paul's epistles?

And while I did quote from the Epistles, I also made reference to the Gospels. You'll see that if you go back and read my previous post.

But even in the Gospels, there are plenty of examples of Jesus explaining (IMO) that the Commandments are a path to righteousness; they are not righteousness itself, and that righteousness can in some cases be acheived without the Commandments. Consider two contrasting Gospel verses (both "red-letter", which should keep you happy ):

Matthew 23:23:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Mark 2:23-28:

23One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"

25He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

In the first passage, Jesus declares that following the law is not always sufficient to be righteous. In the second, Jesus goes even further, and declares that sometimes, following the law is contrary to what is good.

Exactly when Jesus is refusing to be called Good, and the whole Christiandom say he is God, however this is a different topic. So, now everybody is unworthy of heaven why should anybody be unworthy of heaven, when you do good deeds, why should i go to Hell and am not worthy of heaven. pls explain.

In mainstream Christian doctrine, only a perfect person would be worthy of Heaven based on his or her own merits, and the only perfect person is Christ, or God become man. In this context, for a person to claim that he is worthy of Heaven is to imply that he is perfect, and therefore on par with God. Most Christian denominations discourage people from exalting themselves to the status of God. In most Christian denominations, a person gains admittance to Heaven by Christ's merits and Christ's mercy, not by their own merits.

Christians claim to be follwoing the whole bible which they are not, they only beleieve in John 3:16

Wait... didn't you just have a problem with the Epistles? Now you want Christians to follow more of the Bible?

Everything is permissable (this is not Jesus who said it is paul ref. Red letter bible) which means prostitution, incest, adultry, idoltry, rape, murder, any savagery you can think about it is allowed in the Christian world.

If these things are only wrong because of the Law, then I suppose so. I'm not sure that all of them are only wrong because of the Law, though.

When a human being marrys he becomes closer to God, whether it is a Man to a woman or a woman to a man but has to be of opposite sex to come closer to God, in Islam Marriage and Pregnancy uplifts a womans status, not like the bible You women you shall be cursed, you will multiply and bear labour pain.

Hang on - isn't the Bible considered to be a Holy Book in Islam too? Are you saying that Genesis is wrong?

 

[Charity]

Nowhere in the bible does it say that "Homosexuality" is a sin.

I think you may have missed reading a few scriptures then.......

 

[painted wolf]

I remember reading somewhere a while back that the Dali Lama denounced homosexuality, but of course he only represents a particular sect of Buddhism.

From what I have heard he has no problem with people being homosexual... but has problems with practicing homosexual Buddhists. Its the denial of the self... he isn't keen on heterosexual sex for non-reproductive purposes either.
If the religion is about releasing ones self from desire than you can't exactly have an active sex life.

wa:do

 

[Romulus]

...do you know that if you guys have money you can buy certificates of sins which you have not commmited but are planing to commit from the Pope you can Prepay for sins, the Christian world is so sophistiocated. Imagine you have made the religion into an enterprise.you can also buy a certificate to Paradise. I am sure you have them if not dont forget to buy them, the day of ressurection is near. I can teach you a way of doing business buy more certs and sell them is US for a price higher, so people wont be going to the Vatician but buying from you...

Um, first of all, this is a discussion forum, not a place to bash religion. Secondly, I have a slight inkling that that practice was pretty much done away with follwing the Protestant Reformation (it was one of the causes, after all). But then again, what would I know... *sigh*

 

[Tau]

Look, sex IS used for other puproses but that doesn't mean it wasn't jsut designed for procreation. Look, a wrench is designed to be a tool, I can use it as a weapon but it was DESIGNED for another purpose. Just because you use it for something else, doesn't make it right.

Doesn't make it wrong either, nature abounds with homosexuality, many animal species display the behaviour, it has biological imperitive and thus exists.
Homosexuality is not a bad thing thing at all in many situations..:sarcastic.. for example its a shame it only barely reduces population growth, handy when resources are getting scarcer, the world more crowded, we should be encouraging it!

Gay is green lol

 

[Bishadi]

Doesn't make it wrong either, nature abounds with homosexuality, many animal species display the behaviour, it has biological imperitive and thus exists.
Homosexuality is not a bad thing thing at all in many situations

The priority of each choice is not the self.

Even in nature the 'un-natural' acts are to ease frustrations and dominance.

If each have that choice, they make it. Yet when an open disclosure is structured to establish the choice as 'normal' shares the selfish enterprize of the misconception.

The greatest error in the model is the attrition of children. For some reason this area is never addressed in these conversations. Very few actually recognize how the confusion grows and develops. such the same that most will not perfect the knowledge that literally shares that most who are biased for same sex; the majority had an adverse or negative imposition to their childhood development.

So the compassionate observation should remove the self of the observance and look at the imposition to the total, first!