Homosexuality and Religion

[Sunstone]

here's another simple theory: lets base moral arguments in reality, so they are relevant to what really goes on in society. the entire population will never be either gay or straight, and as Mesty pointed out that does not equate to infertile.

What??? Since when has it been acceptable to anyone to base moral arguments in reality, Mike! You certainly ask a lot. I'm shocked and dismayed both by your unrepentant radicalism.

 

[Tau]

What??? Since when has it been acceptable to anyone to base moral arguments in reality, Mike! You certainly ask a lot. I'm shocked and dismayed both by your unrepentant radicalism.

I only base moral arguments upon reality, I assume you are just joking Sunstone?

 

[Bishadi]

No. I'm not trying to pick on the beliefs of a religion. Like I said, the OP wanted to find out what different religions thought of homosexuality.

They ALL are against unless someone in the last 30 years created new opinions. From Judaism, to confucious............. don't think there is a model on the globe that will ever offer an acceptance to homosexuality.

Why? Because most all of anyone in any reasoned thought process all recognize, homosexuality is for fun, curiousity and the self. It's kind of simple to be honest about reality. And if one out of a few 1000 is born a wee little different, it seems like common sense to offer them a little extra compassion to deal with the 'difference' but god knows to impose to the other 99% of the people and suggest it is normal, then all that occurs is more curiousity and more self and more individuals who have no issue with extremes to find new games to play. ie... if little boys knew it was possibly normal, many have no issue with taking a chance. So reality is not to expose children to the play of self seeking desires as they can often cross the lines with no responsibility to the actions.

You have very strong feelings against it so I simply wondered what your religion was if you had one.

Religions are guides not the truth. This is the 21st century, not the days of sparticus.

Yep, I've looked around in nature. Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon.

Phenomenon is a word to describe the unknown. Knowledge can help with removing complacency or simple the 'ignorance' of comprehension.

It appears in nature, so by your definition is part of the natural truth. So you are right; some people lie to themselves because they don't like to believe it's true.

Why not put up some statistics? In nature and in human stats what is the percentage of straight gays (natural living critters too) and the global population.

Never said gays are the 'tried it' people, I said, want to get married and actively represent their gaydom in open public. The ratio of people like you who are simply wanting to be heard and feel it is right that everyone should accept gays as a normal part of association within a compassionate society.

Put a percentage up and the data; peer reviewed.

 

[fantome profane]

Phenomenon is a word to describe the unknown.

Nonsense. Where did you get that idea.

Phenomenon
1 plural phenomena : an observable fact or event
2 plural phenomena
a: an object or aspect known through the senses rather than by thought or intuition
b: a temporal or spatiotemporal object of sensory experience as distinguished from a noumenon
c: a fact or event of scientific interest susceptible to scientific description and explanation
3 a: a rare or significant fact or event
b plural phenomenons : an exceptional, unusual, or abnormal person, thing, or occurrence

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

They ALL are against unless someone in the last 30 years created new opinions. From Judaism, to confucious............. don't think there is a model on the globe that will ever offer an acceptance to homosexuality.

I would have to disagree with you there, in my religion we are in acceptance of being sexually free, be it either with the same sex or the opposite of. Just because YOU don't THINK homosexuality is ok, doesn't mean you should bring ALL religions in to support your cause. My religion teaches us that if a man chooses to be with a man, then so be it, it is their choice. Just as you chose to follow your own path in life, so must others.

To the OP, you can believe in a God without having to go into a faith that sees who you are as a person as "wrong". To me that is hypocritical of a God to punish you for what you are, whilst also punishing you for what you DON'T KNOW. I would take some time and learn different religions until you find the one that is right for you.

Although, I have always said: Better to be hated for who you are then loved for who you are not

 

[Bishadi]

OK... by definition you have provided evidence that to think the word phenomenon is used to describe the unknown, is a error or word usage.

Much of what interest my daily homework is to define the unaswered phenomena left upon earth.

So just because something is observed does not mean the description is correct.

Or simply since people can see a lion kill the cubs of a lioness, many observe the 'phenomenon' as simply cruel but reality has shared an evolutionary benefit to the reproduction attrition of the lion.

And such in this context (homosexuality) the observed phenomenon was used to suggest 'it is normal' when in reality the 'normal' is to ease frustration maybe the same way the catholic preachers do.

So the context of how I used the word could be quite valid....... to see the phenomenon..... and not comprehend why the phenomenon exists, turns the usage into a description of an unknown causation.

Why are there so many gay folk?

Maybe because the phenomenon has not been properly described/understood!

Like taking acid; strictly fun until someone understood what damage it can cause.

 

[texan1]

Why? Because most all of anyone in any reasoned thought process all recognize, homosexuality is for fun, curiousity and the self. .

lol - so you think people decide to be gay "just for fun" because they are curious or something? I'm sure they have a lot of fun being judged by people like you.

It's kind of simple to be honest about reality.

You'd think it would be simple, but a lot of people have a hard time accepting homosexuality as a normal part of reality.

And if one out of a few 1000 is born a wee little different, it seems like common sense to offer them a little extra compassion to deal with the 'difference'

I am glad you are so compassionate towards those who are different from you.

but god knows to impose to the other 99% of the people and suggest it is normal, then all that occurs is more curiousity and more self and more individuals who have no issue with extremes to find new games to play. ie... if little boys knew it was possibly normal, many have no issue with taking a chance. So reality is not to expose children to the play of self seeking desires as they can often cross the lines with no responsibility to the actions.

Not sure I understand what you are saying here. If we accept homosexuality, our little boys will turn gay? But if we don't accept homosexuals, they won't turn gay? That's an interesting theory. Do you have any peer-reviewed statistics on that?

Religions are guides not the truth.

I agree.

Why not put up some statistics? In nature and in human stats what is the percentage of straight gays (natural living critters too) and the global population.

Homosexuals are a minority of the population. Does that automatically mean that it's okay for the majority to judge them and oppress them? Not sure what you are getting at here.

Never said gays are the 'tried it' people,

What's a 'tried it' people?

I said, want to get married and actively represent their gaydom in open public.

So you don't mind homosexuals as long as they stay hidden, don't get married or participate in parades?

The ratio of people like you who are simply wanting to be heard and feel it is right that everyone should accept gays as a normal part of association within a compassionate society. Put a percentage up and the data; peer reviewed.

I am not sure I understand you. I am expressing my opinion. Are you asking me to provide statistics of people who share my opinion? I don't understand what the purpose of that would be. I realize that I am not going to change your mind here, no matter what statistics I have, so we can agree to disagree.

But I don't think a society can call itself compassionate if it oppresses certain groups of the population simply because they differ in some way from the majority. Just my opinion.

 

[texan1]

By the way Andrew, if you are still following this thread, I found a link to a list of gay-friendly churches in the UK:

Welcoming Gay Christian Churches - UK and Europe (www.gaychurch.org)

 

[Bishadi]

lol - so you think people decide to be gay "just for fun" because they are curious or something? I'm sure they have a lot of fun being judged by people like you.

Seems my compassion for others is the overall point you are missing.

So you don't mind homosexuals as long as they stay hidden, don't get married or participate in parades?

How can anyone mind what others do on their own time, as long as it does not adversely affect others?

Compassion to the majority is first. Simple.

You'd think it would be simple, but a lot of people have a hard time accepting homosexuality as a normal part of reality.

Thank you, that was all you had to say as finally the truth comes out by your own hand. Be happy as I learned from you too.

Acceptance is not the issue but maybe understanding should come from the majority. So knowledge of the existence and compassion for the practitioners, can be understood. And likewise, there is no need for public acceptance or additional expence to the public if the body to the 'entity' or 'institution' shares nothing of addition to the collective.

So do you see how the whole issue is political anymore as the core compassion is easy to address.

These debates usually go nowhere but at least you shared a real truth and I did learn something from this; their people; nervous and insecure and maybe I can use better wording to these subjects.

Thank you for the lesson.

 

[Mike182]

Compassion to the majority is first. Simple.

to what extend should minority groups bend to the whims of the majority? i say they shouldn't, not at all. we should have compassion for all people, there should be equality, and all those other liberal values that i hold. simple.

 

[Ashley-Yin]

I am a gay male, and at the moment I am an agnostic, but I am leaning towards believing in the existence of God. I want to know what different religions think of homosexuality is?

im going to asume your talking about the Christian god(although there are many gods similar to him).
in any case these thoughts may help.

only i can 'think' for myself, if i do not i am either unconscious or lacking my own free will. i am able to consider different realities and points of view.

only i can fully 'accept' who i am. i believe without doubt my characteristics are allowed to be because i consider them of value.

only i can 'understand' what makes me truly happy. and that is the purist of love and the purist compassion. i can grasp these concepts and will put them in to practice.

I consinder myself a Buddhist/Wiccan, so you can count on me to show you love and compassion.

 

[Bishadi]

im going to asume your talking about the Christian god(although there are many gods similar to him).
in any case these thoughts may help.

only i can 'think' for myself, if i do not i am either unconscious or lacking my own free will. i am able to consider different realities and points of view.

only i can fully 'accept' who i am. i believe without doubt my characteristics are allowed to be because i consider them of value.

only i can 'understand' what makes me truly happy. and that is the purist of love and the purist compassion. i can grasp these concepts and will put them in to practice.

I consinder myself a Buddhist/Wiccan, so you can count on me to show you love and compassion.

Representing like a responsible human being.

Please make copies, we need you walking, shining, sharing the beauty of compassionate responsibility from every soul. Peace to you!

to what extend should minority groups bend to the whims of the majority?

Bend? If a man was to say. 'it is my religion to hunt down homo's' ...... in your view this case holds water.

'we the people' are the majority and whether you think being an individual means that a single person can inflict adversities to others because they wish their individuality; well then a new species and game tags shall be available to the majority. (hunting parties)

 

[Mike182]

Bend? If a man was to say. 'it is my religion to hunt down homo's' ...... in your view this case holds water.

no, because just like the majority should not infringe upon and alientate the minorities, so too the minorities should not infringe upon the majority. in other words, people should live their own lives and let other people live theirs, without purposefully making it difficult for them.

'we the people' are the majority and whether you think being an individual means that a single person can inflict adversities to others because they wish their individuality; well then a new species and game tags shall be available to the majority. (hunting parties)

no, i don't think anyone should inflict adversities onto others... and calling them unnatural is doing just that.

what the hell does hunting parties have to do with anything?

 

[Bishadi]

no, because just like the majority should not infringe upon and alientate the minorities, so too the minorities should not infringe upon the majority. in other words, people should live their own lives and let other people live theirs, without purposefully making it difficult for them.

If a man can suck a golf ball through a garden house at 20 paces; that's is his perogative but no one on the street needs to know that is what he does.

Be gay (happy) all you like but NO, it is not OK to make the 'abnormal' public.

no, i don't think anyone should inflict adversities onto others... and calling them unnatural is doing just that.

Nobody called YOU 'abe normelle' but maybe some of the 'acts' you choose are. This is the problem; some idiots think it is a right to flaunt their 'gaydom' and that is the ill regard to others, period!

what the hell does hunting parties have to do with anything?

Like a turkey hunter...... when the feathers are ruffled while the turkey is flaunting his sexual prowness in the open, they are usually the ones shot at.

 

[Gentoo]

Be gay (happy) all you like but NO, it is not OK to make the 'abnormal' public.

So what exactly is this "normal" that you speak of?

Nobody called YOU 'abe normelle' but maybe some of the 'acts' you choose are. This is the problem; some idiots think it is a right to flaunt their 'gaydom' and that is the ill regard to others, period!

Calling someone abnormal and calling their acts abnormal are the exact same thing. I don't see a point in separating the two...

Like a turkey hunter...... when the feathers are ruffled while the turkey is flaunting his sexual prowness in the open, they are usually the ones shot at.

It's also called hunting in hunting season, which happens to line up with their mating season. And that's what they do in mating season, find a mate! How else do you want them to do it?

Plus, most trophy hunters are going to go after the biggest specimens they can find, male or female.

 

[Mike182]

If a man can suck a golf ball through a garden house at 20 paces; that's is his perogative but no one on the street needs to know that is what he does.

Be gay (happy) all you like but NO, it is not OK to make the 'abnormal' public.

Nobody called YOU 'abe normelle' but maybe some of the 'acts' you choose are. This is the problem; some idiots think it is a right to flaunt their 'gaydom' and that is the ill regard to others, period!

Like a turkey hunter...... when the feathers are ruffled while the turkey is flaunting his sexual prowness in the open, they are usually the ones shot at.

again, like i said on the other thread, this sanctimonious crap disgusts me.

gays have ever right to show their homosexuality in society, hell, at times it has been (and still at times is) needed to draw attention to discrimination and persecution.

i would write out a post detailing cases of such times, but it will be totally lost on your ignorant position that is unlikely to change. i will save myself the effort, some battles just aren't worth it.

 

[Bishadi]

words are about conveying information.

Defining the words is where universal acceptance maintains equality of usage and understanding.

In biology, mating is the pairing of opposite-sex or hermaphroditic internal fertilization animals for copulation and, in social animals, also to raise their offspring

so such another term

In behavior, normal refers to a lack of significant deviation from the average. The phrase "not normal" is often applied in a negative sense (asserting that someone or some situation is improper, sick, etc.). Abnormality varies greatly in how pleasant or unpleasant this is for other people; somebody may half-jokingly be called "pleasantly disturbed".

So which is it now; are we defining nature, words, definition and the honesty behind describing each............ for a few who are predetermined to the purpose of 'self' over the majority?

Trying to be compassionate but the first contingency is honesty and form reason, a few on this thread just can't get passed themselves to care about others over and above themselves.

Compassion is an understanding of the emotional state of another or oneself. Not to be confused with empathy, compassion is often combined with a desire to alleviate or reduce the suffering of another or to show special kindness to those who suffer. However, compassion may lead an individual to feel empathy with another person.
Compassion is often characterized through actions, wherein a person acting with compassion will seek to aid those they feel compassionate for. Acts of compassion are generally considered those which take into account the pain of others and attempt to alleviate that pain. In this sense, the various forms of the Golden Rule are in part based on the concept of compassion, if also on the concept of empathy.
Compassion differs from other forms of helpful or humane behavior in that its focus is primarily on the alleviation of pain and suffering

OTHERS FIRST!

 

[Mike182]

words are about conveying information.

Defining the words is where universal acceptance maintains equality of usage and understanding.

In biology, mating is the pairing of opposite-sex or hermaphroditic internal fertilization animals for copulation and, in social animals, also to raise their offspring

so such another term

In behavior, normal refers to a lack of significant deviation from the average. The phrase "not normal" is often applied in a negative sense (asserting that someone or some situation is improper, sick, etc.). Abnormality varies greatly in how pleasant or unpleasant this is for other people; somebody may half-jokingly be called "pleasantly disturbed".

you are confusing social norms with what is natural, the two are not necessarily linked.

So which is it now; are we defining nature, words, definition and the honesty behind describing each............ for a few who are predetermined to the purpose of 'self' over the majority?

Trying to be compassionate but the first contingency is honesty and form reason, a few on this thread just can't get passed themselves to care about others over and above themselves.

you are obviously talking about yourself, because you want to not see homosexuals in public and you can't get over your own desire to not have to see them.

OTHERS FIRST!

then support gay equality and gay rights... you know, contribute to the wellbeing of those who are not you. that is what you are saying, right?

 

[Bishadi]

you are confusing social norms with what is natural, the two are not necessarily linked.

Words!

The definitions of words that seem to be used out of context; i.e... same sex intercourse and normal .... or open pursuit of a mate and flaunting homosexuality.

you are obviously talking about yourself, because you want to not see homosexuals in public and you can't get over your own desire to not have to see them.

Not worried about me, it is the little people, the children, our future, that is priority concern to be reasoned through and not your own needs.

then support gay equality and gay rights... you know, contribute to the wellbeing of those who are not you. that is what you are saying, right?

I do every day, but you are pretty much sticking you your own... eh?

Gays are equal as human beings, but as shared in this thread specifically, what some selfish folk (you) do not seem to understand how definitions to words and reality, compassion and care mean are already defined and not even an attorney will ever change the truth as it really is.

 

[doppelganger]

and not even an attorney will ever change the truth as it really is.

LOL! You must not know very many attorneys then. :angel2: