Homosexuality and religious.

[We Never Know]

"Agree" "Life" What an intentionally vague and broad statement.

If you do not approve of the totality of someone's life solely on the basis of the adult with whom they have consensual sex, then you are defitely a bigot.

That's BS! You just as well say if you don't approve of people believing in/having faith in a god you're a bigot.

To be a good person I don't have to "approve" of anything anyone does.
If I disagree or don't like it, that doesn't mean I hate them.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No, it was no such attempt. Two people who love each other having sex with each other for purposes other than producing offspring are in the same light.

You repeated it far too many times for me to accept that you did so with no intention to imply negativity.

 

[ppp]

"Agree" "Life" What an intentionally vague and broad statement.

If you do not approve of the totality of someone's life solely on the basis of the adult with whom they have consensual sex, then you are defitely a bigot.

That's BS! You just as well say if you don't approve of people believing in/having faith in a god you're a bigot.

If one does not approve of the totality of someone's life because one does not approve of them believing that there is a god, then one is a bigot.

If one does not approve of the totality of someone's life because one does not approve of them eating peas, then one is a bigot.

If one does not approve of the totality of someone's life because one does not approve of their exercise habits, then one is a bigot.

If one sums up the entirety of a person's life based on a single trait, then one is a bigot.

Even bigots have some positive traits, and should not be barred from enjoying the rights of everyone else simply because they hold antisocial opinons. Not unless they allow their bigotry to restrict or obviate the rights of others

 

[Trailblazer]

Why is it that if someone doesn't agree with a homosexual's life, they must hate them?

I do not hate any homosexuals. I like them just as much as anyone else. My next door neighbors are all homosexuals, five guys living in a big house, and they are very nice people, very respectful, friendly and kind. I do not necessarily disagree with how they live, it is none of my business, not any more than how I live is their business. The fact that I belong to a religion that prohibits homosexual acts does not mean I hate homosexual people. That is just not how my mind works.

Does that mean that if someone doesn't agree with a religious persons life, they hate them?

I do not think that is how it should be, but sadly I think that is the way it is for some people because they cannot dissociate the person from their religion.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That's BS! You just as well say if you don't approve of people believing in/having faith in a god you're a bigot.

To be a good person I don't have to "approve" of anything anyone does.
If I disagree or don't like it, that doesn't mean I hate them.

I think it is much, much better to avoid "disapproving of," "disagreeing with," or "not liking" something private about any person which does not harm anyone else. Why on earth should any of us care what or who somebody else likes, eats, reads, sleeps with or goes on canoe trips with? What business is it of ours?

 

[Trailblazer]

Not who, what, homophobia is deeply hateful.

I hate no homosexuals.

 

[Trailblazer]

Straw man....and gay men and women can and do have babies, or are you still laughably trying to pretend otherwise.

I know that gay men and women can and do have babies. I never said they cannot have babies by means other than having sex together.

Do you want me to spell it out?

A man having sex with a man does not produce a baby because an egg must meet a sperm.
A woman having sex with a woman does not produce a baby because an egg must meet a sperm.

I asked: How many babies do you think would be born without men and women having sex together?
You did not answer my question, instead you deflected.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's BS! You just as well say if you don't approve of people believing in/having faith in a god you're a bigot.

You did it again. You said what I was going to say before I said it.

 

[Trailblazer]

You repeated it far too many times for me to accept that you did so with no intention to imply negativity.

You are free to think whatever you think but I am the only one who really knows what is in my mind.
Besides, who is to say I cannot change my mind? I am not impervious to learning from others.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You evaded another question. I wonder why...

As this is a debate that will go nowhere and resolve little. Most participants do not want to find common ground between Faith given laws and liberal society views. They want to change or eliminate Faith/s.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think time has already told us, or at least hinted at the final outcome, which is a dying out of the Baha'i faith. It has serious problems, not the least of which is to attract youth within the aging demographic. Kids are just too smart to go with homophobia and other out of date ideas. Within 20 years, many centers will have to close, or sell off properties to other groups. But hey, that's life for a lot of religions. Baha'is aren't alone in this by any means.

If people don’t like Baha’i laws then it’s best not to join.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But we're talking about people that are sexually attracted to people of the same gender and do want to have sex with them. I'm sure sometimes it's all about love, but lots of the time it's about desire. What is wrong with that? And sometimes a deep, long-lasting love develops long after they have already been having sex with each other. And once they grow to love each other, why would they stop having sex? Unless, they are Baha'is or some other religion that forbids homosexuality, and they want to obey the laws of that religion.

Baha’i laws only apply to Baha’is. Baha’is do not go around protesting or have public campaigns against homosexuality. We leave people alone to choose their own lifestyle.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, gay Baha'is are do things that are immoral. Then they should be stopped from doing that? Right? And how are Baha'is helping them overcome their immoral behavior? Therapy? A sex change? Celibacy? Since the Divine Physican knows the cure for all the worlds ailments, what does he recommend and has it been successful in treating the "ailment" of homosexuality?

And that's pretty important. If his recommendations work, then gay Baha'is should be doing those things and get themselves healed, right? But if they don't work, then what about all the other things that the Divine Physican recommends? Will they work?

So far the world has not even tried Baha’u’llah’s teachings. If they don’t work then the world can go back to their ways of wars and killing each other. But to condemn His teachings without even trying them is not the answer. We’ve had two world wars which I believe would have been avoided if the leaders united but they chose not to. So the failure of the world to have peace is on the leaders not Baha’u’llah.

 

[Vinayaka]

Baha’i laws only apply to Baha’is. Baha’is do not go around protesting or have public campaigns against homosexuality. We leave people alone to choose their own lifestyle.

And yet, here you are, on this forum, talking to a ton of non-Baha'is all about it. Have you noticed that very few Christians and Muslims, who share the same homophobic beliefs, haven't bothered to enter the dicussion?

 

[Vinayaka]

If people don’t like Baha’i laws then it’s best not to join.

Which is the case for all except the very rare exception.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You ignored the question, the reason is manifest, your claim was asinine nonsense.

You have your beliefs and I have mine and no amount of criticism from you will change that because I believe you are mistaken and as you do not believe in God then you fall back on your error prone human mind. So criticise all you like if it makes you feel good. It doesn’t bother me at all.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Not a according to your religion.

It is a Baha’i law for Baha’is only.

 

[CG Didymus]

So you now admit it is risible nonsense to claim homosexuality is a threat to the survival of the human race?

Only you appeared to agree with his claim when he made it...

It doesn't even have to be mating pairs. One guy can have several wives and knock them all up. Even the Baha'i prophet had multiple wives.

 

[samtonga43]

Reproof accepted. You are quite right. I have known many Christians of the same temperament. I should have said "many believers, inspired by dogma, have difficulty being compassionate without caveats."

And indeed, many non-believers (in gods) still hold dogmatic beliefs of other kinds that limit their ability to be compassionate.

Thank you for understanding.

I like this: "many believers, inspired by dogma, have difficulty being compassionate without caveats."

 

[CG Didymus]

Like clinging doggedly to archaic prejudices within religions for example. The difference here is that while that is a choice people make, which is demonstrably pernicious, being gay is neither a choice or harmful in any practical way.

She's right none of us have to have sex just because we want to. But why not do it? Oh yeah, because the Baha'i prophet said, unless we are married, we shouldn't do it or even think about it, or to even get oneself off. And as if most Baha'is are able to live by those rules.