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Homosexuality and Sikhism
- Thread starter xkatz
- Start date
Do heterosexuals or homosexuals have a choice? I don't think so.
My opinion is that both homosexuality and heterosexuality is hukam, the will of the Supreme. Recognition of that hukam and coming to know all as hukam is more valuable than any opinion or judgement by another mortal's mind.
I will however look forward to know Gursikh Ji's reply on this topic, if he wishes
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Homosexuality is not mentioned in Sikh scripture. Sikhism has no written view on homosexuality. I truly believe one can be a good Sikh and homosexual.
However, as with any religion, there are people who do not accept it. A lot of Sikhi are quite conservative, but many are accepting and understanding. There are some Sikhi who have attempted to rationalize why homosexuality exists, or why it should be condemned, but most Sikhs just don't really take much concern over it.
The fact that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is silent on this matter, to me, says that homosexuality is not condemned. Sikhism is a religion which emphasises family living, and that to me can be two men or two women.
As brother Onkarah has said, everything is down to Waheguru's Will, his Hukam - nothing can escape it, and further expanding upon brother Gursikh's point: as long as one's relationship is not based on the Five Thieves: Kam (Lust), Krodh (Anger), Lobh (Greed), Moh (Attachment), or Ahankar (Ego), then it doesn't matter what the relationship is.
That's my $0.02
However, as with any religion, there are people who do not accept it. A lot of Sikhi are quite conservative, but many are accepting and understanding. There are some Sikhi who have attempted to rationalize why homosexuality exists, or why it should be condemned, but most Sikhs just don't really take much concern over it.
The fact that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is silent on this matter, to me, says that homosexuality is not condemned. Sikhism is a religion which emphasises family living, and that to me can be two men or two women.
As brother Onkarah has said, everything is down to Waheguru's Will, his Hukam - nothing can escape it, and further expanding upon brother Gursikh's point: as long as one's relationship is not based on the Five Thieves: Kam (Lust), Krodh (Anger), Lobh (Greed), Moh (Attachment), or Ahankar (Ego), then it doesn't matter what the relationship is.
That's my $0.02
Gaura Priya
IRL
I can not wait for the day that gay and lesbian Sikhs can become amritdharis and be in happy, monogamous marriages.
It is unfortunate though that because of Indian Victorian-era principles, homosexuality is seen as an undevotional aberration of one's personal lusts.
And I speak as one who has grown up around Sikhs. It is the biggest religion in Surrey, British Columbia, Canada, after Christianity. Much of this Sikhi against homosexuality is unfortunately there, which had given rise to Sher, an LGBT support group for those who grew up around Sikh principles.
Otherwise, I know that Canadian Sikhism will eventually give way to acceptance of homosexuality. After all, Sri Guru Granth Sahibji only concerns itself with Waheguru, and none else.
Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!
It is unfortunate though that because of Indian Victorian-era principles, homosexuality is seen as an undevotional aberration of one's personal lusts.
And I speak as one who has grown up around Sikhs. It is the biggest religion in Surrey, British Columbia, Canada, after Christianity. Much of this Sikhi against homosexuality is unfortunately there, which had given rise to Sher, an LGBT support group for those who grew up around Sikh principles.
Otherwise, I know that Canadian Sikhism will eventually give way to acceptance of homosexuality. After all, Sri Guru Granth Sahibji only concerns itself with Waheguru, and none else.
Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!
xkatz
Well-Known Member
I don't think it has to do so much w/ British influence in the Punjab, but rather I think that it has to do w/ Punjabi culture itself more-so.
DeitySlayer
President of Chindia
Sikhism never mentions homosexuality as a deviation or sin. Any disdain for homosexuality is purely from a sociocultural perspective.
Gaura Priya
IRL
You know better than I do as a sahajdhari...
I only know from a Hindu perspective.It could completely be a Punjabi thing in itself.
It makes me wonder what the 3HO and the 'Yogi Bhajan' Sikhs feel about it...
xkatz
Well-Known Member
You know better than I do as a sahajdhari...
It could completely be a Punjabi thing in itself.
It makes me wonder what the 3HO and the 'Yogi Bhajan' Sikhs feel about it...
Well I am not Punjabi myself (I am of Jewish-European descent), so I am not too familiar w/ Punjabi culture. I do know however that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is silent on homosexuality, and none of the Gurus condemned it as far as I know. So therefore, I assume that Sikhism is accepting of homosexuals, and even if most Sikhs don't accept homosexual Sikhs, I would.
chinu
chinu
I don't know the attitudes of others, But
Homosexual people are not more than Animals,
"Humanbeing the king of spices",
If we are humanbeings that is because of our higher level of conciousness than animals, & Homosexual people are droping this level with their own hands,
If we are homosexual than this is sure that our next coming spices will be of Animals,
chinu
chinu
Marco ji,
Yes! I can give references from GGS, (with respect)
But! Can i know the reason of your strong faith towards GGS ?
You can trust GGS, Why not Me ?
Don't you think that I am your well wisher or good friend ?
If you cannot Trust the person which is in front of you TODAY, than How it is possible that you can Trust GGS which is around 350 years old, Moreover the script written in GGS is in gurmukhi & in the form of poetries which is difficult to understand normally,
GGS is respected, but GGS cannot speak itself,
Marco ji, why to trust anybody or GGS or Me,
Start your meditations right today,
Start to devote 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the evening for your meditations,
Again i can only say that, i am SURE that if you will continue your meditations one day you will get the answer of this (SURE) within yourself,
The script written in GGS is by the peoples who have gained knowledge within themselves, They have not gained the knowledge from anywhere Outside, All true knowledges are inside the being itself,
So, Marco ji, either you trust ME blindly, OR there is only one way to the true knowledge that is:
Meditate meditate meditate....................................
Do this today, or may be some other times, or may be in your next coming birth,
Don't worry there is more than enough time ....................time........................never ending...............time.......
Your brother chinu.
Marco19
Researcher
Dear Chinu ji,
first of all i'm not a Sikh, but i have real interest to know more about your and other faiths.
i can trust GGS but not anyone else... why? because He is the owner of this path.
so if i have a question regarding His teachings, i wouldn't believe x or y, but for sure i'll believe (ONLY) His writings.
my friend "anybody" knowledge is not relevant/perfect/pure and can't become sacred or at least to the level as GGS.
and this is not something new or unique to Sikhism... take any religion as an example, you may get the same results.
But nevertheless i thank you, i'll do your advice since i'm going again in the next days to visit the Gurdwara with my friends.
Thank You,
Marco.
first of all i'm not a Sikh, but i have real interest to know more about your and other faiths.
well, sorry my friend but blindly means becoming like a pet and follow without thinking.
i can trust GGS but not anyone else... why? because He is the owner of this path.
so if i have a question regarding His teachings, i wouldn't believe x or y, but for sure i'll believe (ONLY) His writings.
Can anybody nowadays add/edit his knowledge to the GGS and make the Sikhs chant/recite/learn them too?
my friend "anybody" knowledge is not relevant/perfect/pure and can't become sacred or at least to the level as GGS.
and this is not something new or unique to Sikhism... take any religion as an example, you may get the same results.
But nevertheless i thank you, i'll do your advice since i'm going again in the next days to visit the Gurdwara with my friends.
Thank You,
Marco.
chinu
chinu
Guru Arjan Sahib says :
He who keeps ten sense-organs under control,
His soul is illuminated for sure.-GGS # (M.5 Gauri 236-14)
Guru nanak sahib says:
Those who waste the fluid lose the jewel.
Those who waste the fluid are reborn.
Those who waste the fluid undergo the cycle of eighty-four.
Those who waste the fluid are entrapped in the noose of Yama.
-GGS # (I don't know the exact page no: it is in the Quotes by Guru Nanak known as "Pran Sangli" in GGS)
Again in "Pran Sangli" Guru Nanak Sahib says :
The mind which is running in the ten directions is controlled.
O Nanak ! the most precious jewel is found because of this control.
The jewel is got by controlling the fluid.
The mind is controlled by controlling the fluid.
Light appears by controlling the fluid.
By observing good character and contentment,
One crosses the three attributes. (I don't know the page no it is in Ram Kali Patshahi 10 in GGS)
Guru Arjan Sahib says :
Closing the doors and behind many curtains,
a man co-habits with another's woman.
When the Divine Accountants (i.e. Chitra and Gupta)
call for his Account on the day of judgement,
Then who shall shield him ?- GGS # (M. 5 Sorath 616-8)
Kabir Sahib explains :
Many may talk of passion,
But none knows what it is.
All thy imaginations, every desire and
movement of the mind is passion,
When you are following the Spiritual Path. (Sorry for the # in GGS i will give you later)
So, Marco ji, Orally i know this much, I can read & understand "Gurmukhi" but unable to type on my laptop,
I hope this much is helpful to you,
Your brother Jasdir.
GURSIKH
chardi kla
sat sri akaal chinu ji ,
you can search and copy paste about homosexuality mentioned in GGS here
Sri Granth
above shabads mentioned by you have nothing to do with homo .
m repeating my stance "i never heard about homosexuality mentioed in Guru Granth Sahib , there mention of "lust" many time , its for both homo as well hetro ."
Sri Waheguru ji ki fateh
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chinu
chinu
Gursikh ji,
"Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fate",
Yes! in the entire GGS there is never mentioned about Homosexuatity,
But! saxuatity is sexuality,
I rememberd one Joke on this:
Pope the Polack is very sick. Doctors come from all over the world to try and diagnose his illness, and finally a little Jewish psychiatrist finds the cause of the problem.
He tells the pope, "Your Holiness, because you have had nothing to do with women all your life, your hormones are unbalanced and there is only one possible cure. You must make love with a woman."
"No, no!" cries Pope the Polack, "I can't. All the vows I have taken... I just can't!"
"But, your Holiness," replies the shrink, "you must or you will die, and this too is a mortal sin."
The pope retires for a few days to consider his fate, and then calls the psychiatrist again.
"Okay," says Pope the Polack, "I have reached my decision. I will do as you ask. But please, be sure that the girl has nice, big tits."
So, Gursikh ji, This one is a joke.
True is that people can go to any length for enjoying sex,
People can have sex with their family members
People can have sex even with animals too
It is very well Quoted in GGS that "Jahan asa taha basa" (U may be knowing)
Means: There is the birth, where is the desire.
So, Gursikh ji, Guru's were not like we peoples to start different threads on normal sexuality & Homosexuality or sex with animals,
I think those days are not so far when we will see peoples having sex with Tress & Plant,
Than what we will do ?
From where we can give # quoted in GGS ?
I think if we are really humanbeing, Than we must use some Commensences,
We people have made the teachings of guru's more than a hard wall.
Sorry if i have used any harsh word in the post,
Your brother chinu,
"Sat-shri-akal".
"Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fate",
Yes! in the entire GGS there is never mentioned about Homosexuatity,
But! saxuatity is sexuality,
I rememberd one Joke on this:
Pope the Polack is very sick. Doctors come from all over the world to try and diagnose his illness, and finally a little Jewish psychiatrist finds the cause of the problem.
He tells the pope, "Your Holiness, because you have had nothing to do with women all your life, your hormones are unbalanced and there is only one possible cure. You must make love with a woman."
"No, no!" cries Pope the Polack, "I can't. All the vows I have taken... I just can't!"
"But, your Holiness," replies the shrink, "you must or you will die, and this too is a mortal sin."
The pope retires for a few days to consider his fate, and then calls the psychiatrist again.
"Okay," says Pope the Polack, "I have reached my decision. I will do as you ask. But please, be sure that the girl has nice, big tits."
So, Gursikh ji, This one is a joke.
True is that people can go to any length for enjoying sex,
People can have sex with their family members
People can have sex even with animals too
It is very well Quoted in GGS that "Jahan asa taha basa" (U may be knowing)
Means: There is the birth, where is the desire.
So, Gursikh ji, Guru's were not like we peoples to start different threads on normal sexuality & Homosexuality or sex with animals,
I think those days are not so far when we will see peoples having sex with Tress & Plant,
Than what we will do ?
From where we can give # quoted in GGS ?
I think if we are really humanbeing, Than we must use some Commensences,
We people have made the teachings of guru's more than a hard wall.
Sorry if i have used any harsh word in the post,
Your brother chinu,
"Sat-shri-akal".
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Secret herbs and spices?
GURSIKH
chardi kla
it shud be "Species" i think