Homosexuality Discussion Thread #712

[waitasec]

well I dont know about the legality of it but.




[/COLOR][/LEFT]

how would you suggest going about giving those who have been discriminated against equal rights? my guess, this is a law that covers the gov't arse and keeps it out of any type of law suits that would associate to the gov't as being a discriminatory gov't.

from what i gather, someone would need to provide evidence that the crime was indeed a hate crime...

 

[Skwim]

I am a supporter of gay, transgender rights etc.
I believe that it is bigoted of religious people to say that gay people will go to Hell because they are gay. It is so stupid it isn't worth thinking about.
Homosexuality is not a choice. That is fact. So why should we discriminate against homosexuals? It is no better than racism.

'tain't homosexuals per se, (at least it's not suppose to be) but those who engage in homosexual acts. As for the "why discriminate?" it's because that's what the god of Abraham did, and what's good for god is good enough for the Christian. Not that all Christians subscribe to this sort of thinking, but some, mostly the fundies, do.

 

[Breathe]

Oh, believe me, that's not 100% reliable.... >_<

LOL, I know. I've been mistaken for being gay by quite a few people, just because I have long hair.

 

[waitasec]

Oh, believe me, that's not 100% reliable.... >_<

not it isn't

i think it's interesting when people say stupid things when they find out someone is gay

"yea, my friend is gay but he's really nice"

 

[methylatedghosts]

not it isn't

i think it's interesting when people say stupid things when they find out someone is gay

"yea, my friend is gay but he's really nice"

lol indeed. As though the two shouldn't normally exist in the one person xD

 

[Duck]

It goes deeper than that though. I am pretty sure that this was directed at my post so I will put this out there.

You are hiring a person for a job and you have two candidates that are fresh out of college with a 4.0 GPA with the same major. Both are white and one is homosexual and the other is not. Who do you hire?

Better be the queer because there is a chance of getting sued for discrimination. I mean the whit guy cant sue can he? Who would believe he did not get the job because the other guy was gay?

It happens every day with protected class people.

It will be this kind of thing all over again. Hell I will just claim I am Gay.


[/color][/left]

The problem with your reverse discrimination argument at the moment is that there does not exist a nationwide employment non-discrimination act that protects sexual orientation and/or gender identity. There is federal employment non-discrimination protection for race, religion, sex, national origin, and disability. So, rest assured, you can't legally be fired for being white, male, christian or from Canada. That doesn't mean you are guaranteed to be hired, nor does it mean that you can't be fired, it just means that the final determination for hiring/firing you can't be based solely on one of those protected categories. In many states (at least 20 based on my effort to count) your sexual orientation can be used as the determination to hire/fire, so it is perfectly reasonable that the gay guy will get the job because the hiring manager likes gays better. In my personal opinion and limited experience, I think it is much more likely that the gay guy will get fired simply because the HR folks think that being gay is "unnatural", a "sin", "against God" or whatever and will in at least 20 states have absolutely no recourse.

 

[Archer]

The problem with your reverse discrimination argument at the moment is that there does not exist a nationwide employment non-discrimination act that protects sexual orientation and/or gender identity. There is federal employment non-discrimination protection for race, religion, sex, national origin, and disability. So, rest assured, you can't legally be fired for being white, male, christian or from Canada. That doesn't mean you are guaranteed to be hired, nor does it mean that you can't be fired, it just means that the final determination for hiring/firing you can't be based solely on one of those protected categories. In many states (at least 20 based on my effort to count) your sexual orientation can be used as the determination to hire/fire, so it is perfectly reasonable that the gay guy will get the job because the hiring manager likes gays better. In my personal opinion and limited experience, I think it is much more likely that the gay guy will get fired simply because the HR folks think that being gay is "unnatural", a "sin", "against God" or whatever and will in at least 20 states have absolutely no recourse.

We will see.

I do agree that there needs to be equal protection but the recourse for termination is much different.

 

[gnomon]

I would guess this isn't first time this nuance of the ongoing debate has come up, but I am hoping to isolate a particular point.

My desire for respondents is for you to state if you are "proponent of homosexuality" (rights, behavior, etc.) or are essentially anti-homosexuality for whatever reason. Reason need not be given. This is part 1, and is a bit trivial but is a request I, as OP, have.

The second part is main purpose for this thread, and is me wondering if proponents of homosexuality (like myself) think a clear distinction ought to be made in the various arguments about 'rights' and such.

That distinction, as I see it, is between orientation and behavior. Now, I realize this distinction gets made often, but I'm not sure how much it does get made between proponents. IMO, it gets made somewhere between proponents and those who are anti. A la, hate the sin, not the sinner type rhetoric.

Both as a proponent of homosexuality and as my brand of spirituality goes, I do not think homosexual orientation is a sin, nor does it represent person as sinner. The sexuality part, maybe, but I would assure anyone reading this, it is not the 'homo' part, for me, but the 'sex' part, and even then, it is only a maybe, and only within context of 'let us be clear on what sin actually is.' I think I could, rather easily, be persuaded to not think of sexuality as sin.

However, I do think the larger point of this discussion, that comes up fairly often when rights are being discussed is the orientation and love part. And it gets clouded, unnecessarily so, by the behavior part. To the point where I wonder why any proponent would argue for rights on that level? Admittedly whatever I am insinuating or implying from that question will be received differently by different people, and perhaps I'm only one that thinks it is behavior argument where hang up is. I don't think I am, but I'll admit I could be.

So, that's the discussion, possible debate I wish to have, and am really hoping proponents can focus on the orientation (attraction) in considering how to move the larger debate forward.

Homosexuality is a natural aspect of many mammals. That it exists in humans is neither surprising nor even that big of a deal in my opinion. The black/white view of human sexual identity and human sexual development is factually incorrect.

Behavior among two consenting adults should not be distinguished by rational people based on their sexual identity.

All the hate, bigotry, ignorance, whining, ********, moaning by individuals, religious institutions, hate groups.........it's all a display of the depth human stupidity and ignorance has reached.

To me, the fact that an individual gay means no more to me than the fact of their eye color or hair color.

edit: Oh yeah. There was the sin aspect to your question. I'm an irreligious atheist. Sin is a useless concept.

 

[Killetzbaal]

I am a proponent of freedom. The gods made men who desire sexy-time with other men. So they are allowed to participate in our orgies.
Presumably some of the gods are homosexuals and some are females.

 

[Me Myself]

Well I guess I could just tell people I am bisexual if it ever happens. Hey a non practicing bisexual

You do know you are a genius, right? You just earned yourslef some frubals for that

What two---three---four---or even forty---adults do is none of my business so long as it is done safely, responsibly, and with the consent of all involved, be it directly or indirectly.

So, yeah. I support gay rights, lesbian rights, straight rights, transgender rights, etc.

Me agrees

 

[Nemo Hawkins]

im just gunna say this its NOT a choice so y hate ?