Homosexuality in the Bible

[BM5]

Grandmothers have already hopefully done their best to please God in this matter - it is only your twisted mind that would present the later state of life as a perversion - I made no reference to it - you like making outrageous statements that have no bearing on the debate.

 

[Pah]

Grandmothers have already hopefully done their best to please God in this matter - it is only your twisted mind that would present the later state of life as a perversion - I made no reference to it - you like making outrageous statements that have no bearing on the debate.

No actually, I believe the twist is in an irrational hatred of homosexuals. Those that I gave are the logical extension of your words. I fear that it is biblical verse that sustains a homophobic reaction. You don't seem to be all that understanding of plain text verse and thinking beyond them in conjunction with others - so be it. But I can not stand idlely by when your hate grows from a failure to understand the love Christ showed you. You seem to pick and choose what part of the bible you want to support your feelings, I'm sorry you seem to have picked the hate-filled part.

 

[shema]

It would seem to me that 1 Corinthians 3:13, in context, has very little to do with the morality of using the body. Perhaps you meant 1 Corinthians 3:16-17?

In order to assess the morality of 16-17, you first have to understand what God has created as a body. Only a male is capable of reproduction constantly. Leaving aside the male's youth before puberty, his gamates are available each day of each month throughout his life, barring castration. A woman, on the other hand, only is capable of reproduction from puberty to menopause. The begining and ending of her life does not lead to pregnancy whereas a man, if he is lucky, can induce pregnancy in his very late years. During the woman's fecund times, she may not become pregnant but for about one week a month. Of the pair, a woman is the limiting factor for reproduction.

Since reproduction is not the constant of sex, and since both bodies are especially "designed" for pleasure any time, pleasure seems to be the primary purpose of God's "temple" (from 16-17). Therefore, the morality of the usage of God's temple would seem to be using the temple as God intended.

The implications of this are astonding! It would seem that for marriage to be the only venue for reproduction sex and pleasure, at least four wives or concubines are required to "coordinate" menstral cycles. It would aslo seem, in the absence of multiple wives or concubines, a man must go outside the marriage. Adultry, for pleasure or reproduction, would then be considered a sacred use of a sacred "temple". Homosexual sex, at any time and in and in any marriage cirumstance, would also be a permitted option, for pleasure does sanctify the "temple".

sorry typo..

 

[sojourner]

Just as the rest of us are intermittently "in sin."

Many Christians who take the draconian way of condemning homosexuality never stop to think that our sins are forgiven -- even if homosexuality is a sin. Sincere homosexuals do the best they can with what they've been given. Who are we to say that they can, or should, do "better" in order to be OK with God???

 

[d.]

Bi's are more disgusting than the others if you need to know - anything goes !

If you think gays taking children by one way or another and carrying on with their filthy habits some how makes it right you are sadly mistaken.

your choice of words here implies that your condemnation of non-hetero sexualities has little to do with any teological belief and very much to do with irrational homophobic fear and hysteria.

because of this, your arguments are difficult to take seriously.:hug:

 

[sojourner]

Grandmothers ! ????

" First Commandment " was implying something paramount with God - not something numerical -
however one could not expect an atheist to get too deep into what God wishes since you deny He even exists.

Bi's are more disgusting than the others if you need to know - anything goes !

If you think gays taking children by one way or another and carrying on with their filthy habits some how makes it right you are sadly mistaken.

What about some conservative, fundamentalist Christians taking children and carrying on with their filthy habit of judgmentalism, condemnation and narrow-mindedness? is that right?

 

[Green Gaia]

Bi's are more disgusting than the others if you need to know - anything goes !

Bisexuality is NOT about anything goes!

 

[standing_alone]

Bisexuality is NOT about anything goes!

It's not? Well, this is disappointing...

 

[Mister_T]

What about some conservative, fundamentalist Christians taking children and carrying on with their filthy habit of judgmentalism, condemnation and narrow-mindedness? is that right?

BINGO BINGO BINGO!!! BM5, your hypocracy and prejudice is obvious to all.
It's this type of bigotry and thinking that REALLY LIGHTS MY FIRE!!!:banghead3 :verymad:
It makes me want to give up religion for Lent.........

To of all you who are preaching and/or trying to oppress Gay people :

If being gay is a sin, then it is no different then any other. And you should treat and preach each one with the same amount of energy and enthusiasm. You are not perfect. You don't have ANY right to point the finger. If God wanted you to tell people "the rules" we wouldn't need the Bible. God doesn't need a butt kisser. God doesn't need you to restate his rules. That's why the Bible exists. He tells us through the Bible what he expects from us. What God DOES need you to do is to tell people about him. Show love and compassion for others and tell them that this is what God is about. You're supposed to be telling people about how much God loves them. Not that they are wrong. He needs you to set a loving example for others and plant the seed. He will handle the rest. HE WILL LET THAT PERSON KNOW IF WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS WRONG.

If you believe being gay is a sin and you're going to point, preach and condemn, do it with everbody. Go tell everybody their faults. Don't just single out gay people. Go tell everyone who is overweight that their lifestyle is not right. Go tell all the smokers that what they're doing is un-natural. Go tell all of the soldiers around the world that they are breaking one of God's commandments. Otherwise your making yourself out to be a hypocrite. Go see how well they accept that "loving way" of yours. A lot of people who claim to be following Jesus' example need to start showing it with their actions instead of their mouth. Jesus didn't stand out in front of night clubs handing out copies of the Old Testament. He got his hands dirty. He hung out with the outcasts. He hung out with the opressed and the undesirables. He interacted with these people and set an example and showed them what life was all about. So go on all of you Christians with clean hands (and there are a lot of you). GO GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY! if you believe that being gay is wrong, then don't just play it safe by singling out the gays. Go out there and start preaching to the gang members, rapists and drug dealers....you know...THE SINNERS.

Otherwise, do the world a favor and go dust off your pointy white hats and keep your prejudice and bigotry to yourselves. Stop hiding behind God and the Bible to mask your bigotry. The world is bad enough without people distorting the message of God's love for us.

 

[Ardent Listener]

A hibital critic is like a fly that sits on the moral sores of others. A true devotee (Christian), like a bee, sips the honey of good qualities from the hearts of his companions. Jesus said: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholest thou the mote that in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote of they brother's eye" Matthew 7:1-5

Jesus advised the would-be executioners of an adulteress, when they were about to stone her: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:7 The accusers, remembering their own trangressions, slink away. Great-hearted persons are ever ready, like Christ, to free the sinner by love and to spare condemnation.

From God Talks With Arjuna: The Bhagavad Gita

 

[Dentonz]

No, I listed some verses that you and your church are not willing to follow. Would you care to comment on them?


Well we agree on this, however , it isn't Paul or Moses.




I do NOT accept Paul's teaching as the infalible word of GOD. As far as I am concerned he is a man who wrote his opinions. I find it interesting that Jesus and his apostles never spoke on the subject, only Paul. Also, according to some Bible translations and scholars, even Paul didn't actually speak of homosexuality but of pagan temple prostitutes.




I posted an entry earlier in this thread showing that they were simply trying to stop male prositutes from having sex in the temple.

I have also started a thread called Genes Influence Gender Identity showing scientific evidence that Homosexuality is NOT a choice. Here is the link
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3725

Paul had no way of knowing that homosexuality was a natural process of nature and made some bad assumptions . He seemed to condone slavery as well. Many Christian Churches realize that homosexuality is NOT a sin and my hope is that one day this country will believe that "all men are created equal"

Your entitled to your own beliefs as well as anyone, but the problem here is were arguing about a couple of people in the Holy Bible and whether the God of the Bible approves of homosexuality or not. We know in Leviticus 20 verse 13 it says that if a man lies with a male as a woman they should BOTH be put to death. If this is just to discourage male prostitutes, why would both men be killed? Anyway I'm not Jewish but I'm pretty certain it is a known fact that the laws in Leviticus were and are accepted by Jews as the law of God. David and Jonathan were both Hebrews that followed the law. So in your interpretation either Moses is a liar and a murderer and the jewish laws are just something Moses made up or David, the greatest king of Israel, should have been killed according to the law before he ever took the throne.
When Jonathan 'stripped' off his clothes and gave them to David; David had already been anointed to be King by Samuel. This was a very significant sign of submission by Jonathan to David by in essence giving up his royal robes and birthright to the one who God wanted to be king. Showing David that he was willing to step down as heir to the throne to accomplish God's will. Jesus said there is no greater love than a man lay down his life for his brother. Jonathan was a man of war and found a kindred spirit with David. If you've never known the comradery between soldiers that you've sweated and blead with, you can not possibly understand the 'love' between brothers in arms.
And the reason they kissed and wept together in 1 Sam 20: 41, because David was going into hiding from Saul and Jonathan had to return to him, so to "honour his father" as the law commanded.
If your going to disregard Moses you might as well throw the entire OT in the trash. And make up your own laws in good conscience before God. And for the NT the regulations Paul set forth were for gentiles that did not know the law, therefore had to be told what is unacceptable to God. There is Quite a few thing that Jesus never mentioned, because he preached to people that knew the law. And Jesus said himself that not one jot or one tittle would be removed from the law until all was fullfilled.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Sorry, Jose. God planned his creation and his creation is full of diverse sexuality including homosexual sex. We are just one of his species that practise it.

-pah-

Yes, God did plan His creation....He created one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve) and stuck them together for life....I'm not seeing the homosexual "plan" anywhere in that scheme.
We are also "one of his species" some of whom practice polygamy and incest...yet I hope you're not in support of those things, too?

FerventGodSeeker

 

[kevmicsmi]

Yes, God did plan His creation....He created one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve) and stuck them together for life....I'm not seeing the homosexual "plan" anywhere in that scheme.
We are also "one of his species" some of whom practice polygamy and incest...yet I hope you're not in support of those things, too?

FerventGodSeeker

I hope we are not one of the species that eat our own feces, or kill and eat our own young

 

[ckirkland]

The word is very clear on the issue of homosexuality it is an abolmination in the eyes of God. You cant paint that any other way than what it is. How can a homosexual be a christian is to be a christian is to be Christ like and Christ was holy and perfect. How can an abolmination be made whole but that he/or/she/ accept Christ and in turn accept the word of God and turn from their sin.

 

[Pah]

Yes, God did plan His creation....He created one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve) and stuck them together for life....I'm not seeing the homosexual "plan" anywhere in that scheme.
We are also "one of his species" some of whom practice polygamy and incest...yet I hope you're not in support of those things, too?

FerventGodSeeker

Then you are not looking at all of God's creation.

If I were a bible reading maven, I would see God's word tell the story of incest and polygamy without the censure you seem to be placing on it.

I, for one, am in favor of polygamy (for others) but not incest. Why? There is no health problem with polygamy.

 

[Pah]

The word is very clear on the issue of homosexuality it is an abolmination in the eyes of God. You cant paint that any other way than what it is. How can a homosexual be a christian is to be a christian is to be Christ like and Christ was holy and perfect. How can an abolmination be made whole but that he/or/she/ accept Christ and in turn accept the word of God and turn from their sin.

It is hardly clear in today's understanding of homosexuality. The biblical references to homosexuality were largely confined to temple sex and that from the temple of other Gods.

 

[Pah]

I hope we are not one of the species that eat our own feces, or kill and eat our own young

Ah but we are!

 

[ckirkland]

that it did not only apply to temple sex but sex in general. Was sodom or Gahamora in a temple no, dont buy into that its what the advasary wants you to think

 

[jeffrey]

It is hardly clear in today's understanding of homosexuality. The biblical references to homosexuality were largely confined to temple sex and that from the temple of other Gods.

And homophobes that had no understanding of it. If it was something that they had no desire for, it must be a sin.

 

[ckirkland]

todays understanding of homosexuality has nothing to do with it on a biblical basis its a sin plain and simple