Homosexuality is not natural and is not normality

[Estro Felino]

Well that's between Hay and myself, isn't it? If he's offended by my recommendation then I'll apologize.
l.

what recommendation?

 

[gsa]

as I said before, it is absolutely natural that two gay men love each other and have a sex life together.
But claiming that what they do in bed is as biologically perfect as what straight people do...well...it means to be blind

You are confused because you have a warped understanding of the world, and a part of that is teleology. Let me be clear: There is no such thing as biological perfection. Only someone who is actually blind to the nature of biology, and to reality in general, could believe as you do.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

as I said before, it is absolutely natural that two gay men love each other and have a sex life together.
But claiming that what they do in bed is as biologically perfect as what straight people do...well...it means to be blind

There's no such thing as "biological perfection." A straight couple could have had sex and bore a baby with Down's Syndrome. Is that "biological perfection?"

 

[Robert.Evans]

There is nothing "rational" at all about discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation.

That Spiney, depends on what time period you live in I think. You are part of the mainstream thought, in order to fit in... which is fine of course, just don't go saying homosruality is natural, that's all.

 

[Robert.Evans]

as I said before, it is absolutely natural that two gay men love each other and have a sex life together.
But claiming that what they do in bed is as biologically perfect as what straight people do...well...it means to be blind

So there are a lot of blind people on this thread then, eh

 

[Estro Felino]

You are confused because you have a warped understanding of the world, and a part of that is teleology. Let me be clear: There is no such thing as biological perfection. Only someone who is actually blind to the nature of biology, and to reality in general, could believe as you do.

Diversity is not a limit. It is an enrichment. You deny diversity by equating homosexuals with heterosexuals. It's like I said that unhappiness and pain don't exist.
we are all unique...so you can't say that gay people are not unique.
denying it, it means not to accept one's uniqueness.

Disorder is created when people don't identify with themselves,

 

[Rick O'Shez]

just don't go saying homosruality is natural

I will say it as often as I like because it's true. It's part of the human condition.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

okay...I am not discouraging people from having anal sex.

I beg to differ, when you describe the act itself in arbitrarily disparaging terms. You call it disgusting or squalid as an absolute.No?

But the people who do it, that's because they are anatomically predisposed.

You shouldn't encourage neither men nor women who are not anatomically apt to have it .

That's for themselves to judge. Not you or me or anyone else. It's their rectum. I encourage people to educate themselves, to accept their inclinations, and to have the resolve to establish clear boundaries based on their own personal ethics.

 

[gsa]

Diversity is not a limit. It is an enrichment. You deny diversity by equating homosexuals with heterosexuals. It's like I said that unhappiness and pain don't exist.
we are all unique...so you can't say that gay people are not unique.
denying it, it means not to accept one's uniqueness.

Disorder is created when people don't identify with themselves,

I am not equating homosexuals and heterosexuals. There is a difference in sexual attraction that is undeniable. I am simply denying teleology, which is false. Or at a minimum, we have zero evidence for it, and corresponding concepts like "natural law" or "biological perfection."

 

[Robert.Evans]

I will say it as often as I like because it's true. It's part of the human condition.

So's murder.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So's murder.

So now you are comparing being gay with killing somebody? I've heard it all now.

 

[gsa]

So's murder.

Indeed. The problem that you have is that whether or not something is "natural" is not a value judgment, just an observation.

Now whether something is harmful or healthy or just requires a different kind of analysis. But you want to appeal to "nature" as some kind of standard, when it simply is not.

 

[Robert.Evans]

So now you are comparing being gay with killing somebody? I've heard it all now.

Haha.... If you are saying that a man with a man is normal (which it is not) just because it is part of the natural world, then so is murder normal (which it is not). But no one would say that is was okay to murder.
So how can anyone keep using the excuse that it is natural. It is not. It is neither natural nor normal. You put a bolt and nut together, not two bolts. That just doesn't work.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Indeed. The problem that you have is that whether or not something is "natural" is not a value judgment, just an observation.

Now whether something is harmful or healthy or just requires a different kind of analysis. But you want to appeal to "nature" as some kind of standard, when it simply is not.

Everyone else keeps saying it is natural, not me. I am saying it is not. I am not appealing to anything, just speaking plain common sense.

 

[gsa]

Haha.... If you are saying that a man with a man is normal (which it is not) just because it is part of the natural world, then so is murder normal (which it is not). But no one would say that is was okay to murder.
So how can anyone keep using the excuse that it is natural. It is not. It is neither natural nor normal. You put a bolt and nut together, not two bolts. That just doesn't work.

Something can be natural without being something that is good or desirable, and something can be unnatural while being desirable. This has been repeatedly explained to you.

 

[gsa]

Everyone else keeps saying it is natural, not me. I am saying it is not.

Right, which is why everyone else is correct, and you are incorrect. You are describing something as unnatural even though it appears in nature and fits every rational definition of natural.

I am not appealing to anything, just speaking plain common sense.

What is this "common sense" you refer to? Judging by common sense today, homosexuality is normal and acceptable, if only as a minority variant of sexuality. You are appealing to some anachronistic definition of "nature" and now one for "common sense."

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Everyone else keeps saying it is natural, not me. I am saying it is not. I am not appealing to anything, just speaking plain common sense.

No. You are speaking from your world view which by all definitions is unnatural.

In what way though, as in what qualities, disqualifies homosexuality from being natural and how did you determine these qualities to be markers for "naturalness" ?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So how can anyone keep using the excuse that it is natural. It is not. It is neither natural nor normal. You put a bolt and nut together, not two bolts. That just doesn't work.

It obviously does work though. What I still don't understand is what motivates you to sit in judgement on other peoples' sexual habits. How does what people get up to in the bedroom have any relevance for your life? How does it harm you?

 

[jonathan180iq]

what recommendation?

A couple posts before the one you posted where I suggested counseling for what I read as a pretty deep-seated self-loathing on your part.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Haha.... If you are saying that a man with a man is normal (which it is not) just because it is part of the natural world, then so is murder normal (which it is not). But no one would say that is was okay to murder.

Is murder wrong because a magic book says that it's wrong or is it wrong for deeper reasons?

If your only justification for homosexuality being wrong is based on the the magic book telling you so so then you're simply going to be left behind as an arcane vestige of vapid rigidity while society, much more adept at focusing on fairness, caring, and social justice than any of the models presented in the magic book, distances itself from all of these ill and pre-conceived assumptions of right and wrong.

The very concept that society, or rules, or laws, or basically anything at all is stagnant and unchanging is just absurd and an insult to anyone who studies sociology.

So how can anyone keep using the excuse that it is natural. It is not. It is neither natural nor normal. You put a bolt and nut together, not two bolts. That just doesn't work.

Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also

Normality (behavior) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, and this one too

History of homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia