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How about rehabilitate Putin?

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So I take it you advocate giving back the land to the Native Americans?

Awfully progressive of you ;)
Submit your un-serious proposal. To whom do we give back the land? There are lands whose original inhabitants are extinct. Then there are lands that were inhabited by different tribes at different times. Which tribe gets those lands? And what about those tribes that don’t have any disagreements with how things are? Go ahead and submit you proposal. While you’re at it would you please ask the non-Jews to give us back our land that they stole from us?

Progressives, still making silly arguments.
 
Submit your un-serious proposal. To whom do we give back the land? There are lands whose original inhabitants are extinct. Then there are lands that were inhabited by different tribes at different times. Which tribe gets those lands? And what about those tribes that don’t have any disagreements with how things are? Go ahead and submit you proposal. While you’re at it would you please ask the non-Jews to give us back our land that they stole from us?

Progressives, still making silly arguments.

Nope, completely wrong assumption.

Just highlighting your silly double standards and virtue signalling. You benefitted from ethnic cleansing, that's a fact. Yet it's only others who are guilty and must give back to the "rightful" owners. The US can't let others benefit from ethnic cleansing, just themselves.

Serbs own Kosovo in perpetuity, despite it being populated by Albanians for a similar, or longer, length of time to much of the US. The Albanians aren't the "historical owners of the land" after all.

You get to keep the land, they don't. You position yourself as virtuous for telling others to give back their land, but demand to keep your own.

The history of the world is population movement and conquest, choosing some arbitrary cutoff point and claiming those who had it then are the "true" owners of the land is stupid. Everyone "stole" their land from someone else.

Almost all societies in history have been happy to use violence to acquire land and power, it's only when they got defeated they start to cry about injustice. It's the moralisation of one violent group's ancestors being less competent militarily than another violent group's.

You can recognise that about America, but seem unable to apply the concept to others. That is your hypocrisy.

If they have to give the land to some generic Serbs, you should give the land back to some generic Native Americans. If you think you should keep the land you conquered, you should accept their right to do this also.

Why do you think otherwise?
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
Biden has not announced the Putin as terrorist, and as Nazi. Why then he sends people who is murdering Putin's nation? Is it even legal? Putin is member of UN and has full support of majority of the Humankind. Biden sends Ukraina to murder Russians. Biden has attacked Donbas in 2014 AD.

Jews wrote Bible. Russians have saved Jews from Adolf Hitler. Here is the Biden's "problem." He has problem with God.

Do you actually think Putin is open to the idea that taking other peoples land by force is wrong and that he will try to compensate Ukraine and the rest of the world for the harm his wars cause?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Jews wrote Bible. Russians have saved Jews from Adolf Hitler.
I met a man who was chased out of Russia because he was Jewish. I met him around 2006. He was an accountant in Russia before he had to flee the country. He came here not knowing much of our language and had to work as a laborer. He was a highly skilled accountant, but Russia did not want a Jewish accountant. Russia chased out Jews. Where are their Jews, today? Biden hasn't chased our Jews away. We have lots of Jews here.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Biden has not announced the Putin as terrorist, and as Nazi. Why then he sends people who is murdering Putin's nation? Is it even legal? Putin is member of UN and has full support of majority of the Humankind. Biden sends Ukraina to murder Russians. Biden has attacked Donbas in 2014 AD.

Jews wrote Bible. Russians have saved Jews from Adolf Hitler. Here is the Biden's "problem." He has problem with God.


Biden may have many problems, and I honestly don't know how he'll be remembered as President.

As for Putin, he invaded Ukraine, an aggressive invasion, which goes against the UN Charter and other international treaties. He might have gotten away with it if all he did was occupy Donbas. The West probably still would have imposed sanctions, but it's a smaller area to bite off. Instead, he chose to go after the entire country almost all at once, and even worse, he wasn't even really prepared for an all-out invasion. It was for that reason that I didn't believe that he would even try to attack at all, since Russia was ill-prepared, and historically, Russia has never really done very well in wars where they are the aggressor. When they're defending, they do very well (such as in the Napoleonic Wars and WW2), but many other wars didn't go so well for them.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Nope, completely wrong assumption.

Just highlighting your silly double standards and virtue signalling. You benefitted from ethnic cleansing, that's a fact. Yet it's only others who are guilty and must give back to the "rightful" owners. The US can't let others benefit from ethnic cleansing, just themselves.

Serbs own Kosovo in perpetuity, despite it being populated by Albanians for a similar, or longer, length of time to much of the US. The Albanians aren't the "historical owners of the land" after all.

You get to keep the land, they don't. You position yourself as virtuous for telling others to give back their land, but demand to keep your own.

The history of the world is population movement and conquest, choosing some arbitrary cutoff point and claiming those who had it then are the "true" owners of the land is stupid. Everyone "stole" their land from someone else.

Almost all societies in history have been happy to use violence to acquire land and power, it's only when they got defeated they start to cry about injustice. It's the moralisation of one violent group's ancestors being less competent militarily than another violent group's.

You can recognise that about America, but seem unable to apply the concept to others. That is your hypocrisy.

If they have to give the land to some generic Serbs, you should give the land back to some generic Native Americans. If you think you should keep the land you conquered, you should accept their right to do this also.

Why do you think otherwise?
The most emblematic example is South Tyrol.
This land (and there are countless pieces of evidence proving it) has always been German-speaking. As the surnames of the people show, and as all the anagraphical documents say, before WW1 the overwhelming majority of people were Austrians. German speaking Tiroleans. Italians were really a tiny minority.
Yet when the Austrian Empire was dismantled, Italy got South Tyrol (but they just wanted the Italian speaking region of Trento only, so war winners gave them South Tyrol pointlessly).

So...if South Tyrol wants to become independent, they have the right to do it.
It is the Italian Governments that have always gave this region so much money to convince its inhabitants not to try to become independent.

But how did Ukrainian governments try to convince Donbas people to remain? Through persecutions
 
Loving words...

What is the full context of that quote? 25s out of context edited by Russian propagandists says little.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain that if you asked residents now, they would not look at the Russians as their saviours, but as the people who installed corrupt warlords to run their towns, then destroyed their homes and lives and forcibly conscripted men age 18-60, gave them a few ancient rifles and sent them to die as cannon fodder.

They won't be voting to join Russia any time soon.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
What is the full context of that quote? 25s out of context edited by Russian propagandists says little.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain that if you asked residents now, they would not look at the Russians as their saviours, but as the people who installed corrupt warlords to run their towns, then destroyed their homes and lives and forcibly conscripted men age 18-60, gave them a few ancient rifles and sent them to die as cannon fodder.

They won't be voting to join Russia any time soon.
The context is 2014, Odessa.
I am studying Russian...but Ukrainian is so similar that there is no doubt he means Donbas people.
He says "Only by that we will win this war".
It was 2014.
What war was he talking about?
 
The context is 2014, Odessa.
I am studying Russian...but Ukrainian is so similar that there is no doubt he means Donbas people.
He says "Only by that we will win this war".
It was 2014.
What war was he talking about?

The context of what he said in the speech I mean (what came before/after those words because these could completely change the meaning). An out of context quote mine made by someone's enemies is very dubious, especially a very short one that deliberately misses out the context the words were said in.


As for which war:

Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

War in Donbas (2014–2022) - Wikipedia
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member

So how did this war in Donbas started?
It started that Euromaidan was just the epitome of what the NATO has always wanted to do. They have always wanted to create a stronghold in order to attack Russia.
As Julius Caesar did with Alesia, in the De bello gallico. He built a stronghold all around Alesia to take that citadel.

So they pushed the new Ukrainian Government (bribed by billions of dollars) to persecute the Russian speaking minorities, in order to provoke Putin. The persecution was actually implemented
a) by forbidding people from speaking Russian
b) by cutting all the state aid destined to Donbas.
Putin did not react, and the Crimeans gained independence through referendum.
So the Russian speaking population of Donbas wanted to become independent as Crimeans did...

They have been harassing Donbas people throughout 6 years,
 
So how did this war in Donbas started?
It started that Euromaidan was just the epitome of what the NATO has always wanted to do. They have always wanted to create a stronghold in order to attack Russia.
As Julius Caesar did with Alesia, in the De bello gallico. He built a stronghold all around Alesia to take that citadel.

Why would they attack the country who has the world's biggest nuclear arsenal, and has nukes far closer to many NATO capitals than NATO has to Russia?

That is the point of MAD.

Putin did not react, and the Crimeans gained independence through referendum.

Putin invaded Crimea and held a referendum under military occupation.

Do you think that Putin allows freedom of speech and free and fair elections in Russia, let alone occupied Crimea?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Why would they attack the country who has the world's biggest nuclear arsenal, and has nukes far closer to many NATO capitals than NATO has to Russia?
Because there is something that Westerners rarely speak of: greed. Animalistic greed.
There are financial and banking elites who would undersold their own soul in order to get the control of the incredibly immense raw materials the Russian Federation has.

They had a heart attack when Putin nationalized those raw materials. So they hate Putin...because it is the man who has been preventing them, for years from taking possession of the natural wealth Russia has.
Which include natural gas, of course.
As insatiable as ravenous wolves, they have been drooling over the natural resources of Russia.
And to get them, they are disposed to create the pretext of a proxy war, in Ukraine, which they have made their own stronghold.
And that is exactly what they are doing.
Their goal is to weaken Russia, and to eliminate Putin, in order to replace him with some traitor who will privatize the natural gas and give it to them.


Putin invaded Crimea and held a referendum under military occupation.

Do you think that Putin allows freedom of speech and free and fair elections in Russia, let alone occupied Crimea?

If you don't believe the results of Crimea referendum, let there be another one with the UN supervision.
But you perfectly know that the result will not change.
Let there be 50 referendums....so you will get convinced.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Trump said in 2022: "Lenin says: it is not candidate matters it is one who counts votes. "
It is also a matter of religiosity.
As a Christian, I know that falsifying the elections and voting system of a country, means to betray one's own people.
But there are so many godless people out there, who would do such a thing.
I would never do such a thing, because I don't want to end up in Hell.
 
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