How an 'Ex-Gay' Minister Saw the Light

[tomspug]

Sy Rogers Communications

Here's the guy.

 

[Mike182]

Sy Rogers Communications

Here's the guy.

are you going to recognise that you shouldn't expect others to follow suit?

 

[GayAtheist]

You are under the assumption that if someone is 'gay' that means that they are always 'gay'. There is such a thing as 'gay' tendencies. Just because there is same-sex attraction, doesn't mean that it defines who they are.

Are there not people who call themselves homosexuals but sometimes find themselves attracted to the opposite sex? I think people get confused, and the truth is not always clear. This guy was clearly NOT permanently gay, unless he is lying about being happy. He was probably just confused about his identity and eventually decided that he was NOT, in fact, gay.

If you attracted to the same sex, then you are gay. If you are attracted to the opposite sex, you are straight. If attracted to both, you are bisexual. If you are not attracted to either, you are asexual. That is my understanding of it.

If, like you say then that someone has gay tendencies and isn't always gay, why are these cults producing ex-gay movements?! Wouldn't it be easier to let them work it out for themselves, instead of brainwashing him.

I bet this guy has become an ex-gay through fear. Some people can't genuinely accept what they are, especially when they are a part of a community (such as a religious one) which teaches how homosexuality is somehow a sin and punishable by going to hell. When you have that sort of bullsh!t pumped into you from an early age, it is very difficult to get rid of. The people who indoctrinate children with these messages from an early age, have a lot to answer for, especially when it affects so many people through many aspects of their later life.

 

[GayAtheist]

Now knowing who you are talking about, this guy was not a cross dresser as you say, but in fact transexual (and was diagnosed as such after a psychiatric evaluation). That is a totally different kettle of fish.

 

[tomspug]

If you attracted to the same sex, then you are gay. If you are attracted to the opposite sex, you are straight. If attracted to both, you are bisexual. If you are not attracted to either, you are asexual. That is my understanding of it.

I think that this understanding forces people into boxes. I just don't think sex works that way.

If, like you say then that someone has gay tendencies and isn't always gay, why are these cults producing ex-gay movements?! Wouldn't it be easier to let them work it out for themselves, instead of brainwashing him.

I totally agree. Sex is personal, so it should stay personal. Of course, if people make their sexuality public, then they are kind of making themselves targets to hate.

I bet this guy has become an ex-gay through fear. Some people can't genuinely accept what they are, especially when they are a part of a community (such as a religious one) which teaches how homosexuality is somehow a sin and punishable by going to hell. When you have that sort of bullsh!t pumped into you from an early age, it is very difficult to get rid of. The people who indoctrinate children with these messages from an early age, have a lot to answer for, especially when it affects so many people through many aspects of their later life.

Well, he wasn't raised a Christian (I think it was in his 30's he became a Christian), so if you really want to know I bet he has a biography. His story IS interesting.

 

[Mike182]

i'll stop talking to the wall then.

 

[tomspug]

Now knowing who you are talking about, this guy was not a cross dresser as you say, but in fact transexual (and was diagnosed as such after a psychiatric evaluation). That is a totally different kettle of fish.

Ah, well to be fair, it was like four years ago that I heard this guy speak. I thought he was a cross-dresser because I remember a picture of him as a woman. My bad.

 

[tomspug]

i'll stop talking to the wall then.

Mike, you're talking to yourself.

Let me know if you can quote me as saying something to have offended you, but it looks like you're jumping to conclusions or you've put me in some box. Either way, I have no idea why you think I'm trying to do the things you are accusing me of.

 

[GayAtheist]

I totally agree. Sex is personal, so it should stay personal. Of course, if people make their sexuality public, then they are kind of making themselves targets to hate.

But why does making your sexuality public give people the green light to hate you?

I agree sex is a personal thing, but there is a big difference between your sexuality being public and the actual act of sex being public.

Well, he wasn't raised a Christian (I think it was in his 30's he became a Christian), so if you really want to know I bet he has a biography. His story IS interesting.

Although he might night of been raised as a Christian, I can guarantee that there were Christians around him in society, spreading that message. I have read, he was a devout member of the scouts, which is known for spreading religious messages. It was bound to rub off on him.

 

[Mike182]

Mike, you're talking to yourself.

Let me know if you can quote me as saying something to have offended you, but it looks like you're jumping to conclusions or you've put me in some box. Either way, I have no idea why you think I'm trying to do the things you are accusing me of.

no, i am trying to not make assumptions. you said this guy changed his sexuality - i'm fine with that. do you expect others to? i didn't say that you do or that you do not expect other gay people to change their sexuality, but i would like to know if you do think that or not.

 

[tomspug]

No, I do not expect people to change their sexual orientation. People are who they are. People can be strong. People can be weak. People can be one thing or the other. No one should try and directly change someone else, regardless of their beliefs. That's what manipulative people do, and manipulation is not love in my book.

The only thing that really changes people, I believe, is God. And if you don't believe in God, then you could say that I believe that only love can change people in a good way. So if you think that someone is hurt or is hurting themselves, the only thing you should do is love them. Everything else is just a waste of time.

 

[maggie2]

If you attracted to the same sex, then you are gay. If you are attracted to the opposite sex, you are straight. If attracted to both, you are bisexual. If you are not attracted to either, you are asexual. That is my understanding of it.

Maybe it would help to think of sexuality as being on a continuum. Some people are 100% gay, some are 80% gay, some are 50%, which I would think of as bi-sexual. Some people are 80% heterosexual, some 100%.

Not only that, but I believe that if we are really truthful with ourselves, sometimes we move along the continuum ourselves. For whatever reason, you might have a sexual reaction to someone of your own sex although you are not gay. This may cause discomfort and actually cause us to deny such an event, but these events do happen. These can also happen with gays as well, where they actually have a fleeting desire for someone of the opposite sex.

I think we try to fit people into boxes and we really don't belong there. We are human, and we have human feelings and emotions that can and do affect us moment to moment.

As to the guy who became straight, I agree with whoever said that this was done from fear. I do not believe we can change our sexual orientation, no matter how much we might want to. Let me ask those who are heterosexual: Could you possibly be gay? Probably not, any more than someone who is gay could become heterosexual. Why not just let people be who they are?

 

[Smoke]

Maybe it would help to think of sexuality as being on a continuum. Some people are 100% gay, some are 80% gay, some are 50%, which I would think of as bi-sexual. Some people are 80% heterosexual, some 100%.

Not only that, but I believe that if we are really truthful with ourselves, sometimes we move along the continuum ourselves. For whatever reason, you might have a sexual reaction to someone of your own sex although you are not gay. This may cause discomfort and actually cause us to deny such an event, but these events do happen. These can also happen with gays as well, where they actually have a fleeting desire for someone of the opposite sex.

I think we try to fit people into boxes and we really don't belong there. We are human, and we have human feelings and emotions that can and do affect us moment to moment.

As to the guy who became straight, I agree with whoever said that this was done from fear. I do not believe we can change our sexual orientation, no matter how much we might want to. Let me ask those who are heterosexual: Could you possibly be gay? Probably not, any more than someone who is gay could become heterosexual. Why not just let people be who they are?

:bow:

That says it all.

 

[Buttercup]

Maybe it would help to think of sexuality as being on a continuum. Some people are 100% gay, some are 80% gay, some are 50%, which I would think of as bi-sexual. Some people are 80% heterosexual, some 100%.

Not only that, but I believe that if we are really truthful with ourselves, sometimes we move along the continuum ourselves. For whatever reason, you might have a sexual reaction to someone of your own sex although you are not gay. This may cause discomfort and actually cause us to deny such an event, but these events do happen. These can also happen with gays as well, where they actually have a fleeting desire for someone of the opposite sex.

Those two paragraphs contain a very important distinction, one I hope helps someone who reads it. Few of us are 100% sexually attracted to the same gender stimulus throughout the course our lives.

Great post, Maggie. Good to see you back!

 

[MoonWater]

Maybe it would help to think of sexuality as being on a continuum. Some people are 100% gay, some are 80% gay, some are 50%, which I would think of as bi-sexual. Some people are 80% heterosexual, some 100%.

Not only that, but I believe that if we are really truthful with ourselves, sometimes we move along the continuum ourselves. For whatever reason, you might have a sexual reaction to someone of your own sex although you are not gay. This may cause discomfort and actually cause us to deny such an event, but these events do happen. These can also happen with gays as well, where they actually have a fleeting desire for someone of the opposite sex.

I think we try to fit people into boxes and we really don't belong there. We are human, and we have human feelings and emotions that can and do affect us moment to moment.

As to the guy who became straight, I agree with whoever said that this was done from fear. I do not believe we can change our sexual orientation, no matter how much we might want to. Let me ask those who are heterosexual: Could you possibly be gay? Probably not, any more than someone who is gay could become heterosexual. Why not just let people be who they are?

Very well put. I completely agree especially since that is very simaler to my own experience. I consider myself straight as I am mainly attracted to guys but I have and still do find myself attracted to women on occasion. It was never enough to amount to anything more so I can't really consider myself bi-sexual. So from my own personal experience I can relate to what you said about it being a continuom. If only more people could see it that way and stop trying to put people into boxes then we all wouldn't have to spend our lives trying to break open those boxes and we could just live.

 

[Francine]

Maybe it would help to think of sexuality as being on a continuum. Some people are 100% gay, some are 80% gay, some are 50%, which I would think of as bi-sexual. Some people are 80% heterosexual, some 100%.

Suppose you are a woman who has four sex partners, and they are all men, because that's what you're supposed to do, right? That means you are 100% straight. Now suppose for some silly reason you start dating women. After the first woman, you are 80% straight, because you have dated one woman and four men. Suppose you decide men don't cut it anymore and date only women after that. After three more women, you are 50% lesbian and 50% straight, the epitome of a bi, even though you have totally sworn off men. And that is what you report to the sex researchers, and that is what they write up in their books, but it doesn't have much to do with real life.

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe it would help to think of sexuality as being on a continuum. Some people are 100% gay, some are 80% gay, some are 50%, which I would think of as bi-sexual. Some people are 80% heterosexual, some 100%.

Not only that, but I believe that if we are really truthful with ourselves, sometimes we move along the continuum ourselves. For whatever reason, you might have a sexual reaction to someone of your own sex although you are not gay. This may cause discomfort and actually cause us to deny such an event, but these events do happen. These can also happen with gays as well, where they actually have a fleeting desire for someone of the opposite sex.

I think we try to fit people into boxes and we really don't belong there. We are human, and we have human feelings and emotions that can and do affect us moment to moment.

As to the guy who became straight, I agree with whoever said that this was done from fear. I do not believe we can change our sexual orientation, no matter how much we might want to. Let me ask those who are heterosexual: Could you possibly be gay? Probably not, any more than someone who is gay could become heterosexual. Why not just let people be who they are?

The notion sexual orientation is on a continuum is so 1950s.

 

[Francine]

The notion sexual orientation is on a continuum is so 1950s.

Actually it's a J curve, if you plot the population by sexual orientation, left to right, gay to straight. There's a big dip in the middle, where the bi's are supposed to be.

 

[Hope]

no, i am trying to not make assumptions. you said this guy changed his sexuality - i'm fine with that. do you expect others to? i didn't say that you do or that you do not expect other gay people to change their sexuality, but i would like to know if you do think that or not.

In all fairness, Mike, tomspug merely presented a case of a successful ex-gay, to contrast what was posted in the OP. There is nothing to get offended about in that.

While I definitely disagree with the tactics employed by the organization cited in the OP, and agree that no one should try to force a change in sexual orientation (if certain Christian organizations are doing this, no wonder their methods are backfiring), the fact of the matter is that some homosexuals do change. And to dismiss the ones that do with various excuses (they changed out of fear, they were "influenced" by Christians, etc, etc.) just sounds lame.

 

[maggie2]

Suppose you are a woman who has four sex partners, and they are all men, because that's what you're supposed to do, right? That means you are 100% straight. Now suppose for some silly reason you start dating women. After the first woman, you are 80% straight, because you have dated one woman and four men. Suppose you decide men don't cut it anymore and date only women after that. After three more women, you are 50% lesbian and 50% straight, the epitome of a bi, even though you have totally sworn off men. And that is what you report to the sex researchers, and that is what they write up in their books, but it doesn't have much to do with real life.

While I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I see it as a very realistic example of what might happen with any one individual. I would suspect that the person you are describing would be a bi-sexual as she seems to be attracted to both sexes equally. The situations you describe seem to say more about choices based on her feelings towards a particular gender, not her sexual preferences for either men or women.

I think our sexual orientation is far more complex than being either straight, gay or bisexual. As I said, I think we're all on a continuum.