How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Which Christian denomination is the true representation of Christ? We have to agree with which denomination of Hinduism, or which sect of Islam, so you can say we are believing in their Prophet?

Which Bahai follower on this thread is the true representation of Bahai? Is it Adrian. Is it loverof humanity? Is it Investigate Truth? Is it Arthra? You guys all give different interpretations of you prophet's teachings. Who should Carlita and I be addressing our questions to? We can't ask Baha'u'llah nor his son, nor his grandson because they are deceased. Once you tell me who the true interpreter is, then I'll just ask that person, and ignore the rest of you guys.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You don't understand this one, that's obvious. I'll try once again. People of ALL FAITHS believe that their faith is the best. Otherwise there is just no point sticking to one faith. It's not a criticism, it's just a simple logical observation.

There is only one notable difference about people in this regard. Some people believe their faith is the best one for them, (That's how I see it.) whereas other people believe their faith is the best for all of humanity. (fundamentalist Christians, many Moslems). But top claim that Bahai isn't the chosen faith for you when YOU ARE A BAHAI is just contradiction at it's silliest level. But then as many of us recognise, silly contradictions seem to be part and parcel of your faith.

Bahais believe all Religions fundamentally agree with each other, though each had a unique religious Law that were suitable for their own Age. Bahaullah's religious Laws are suitable for this Age. Having said that, the Bahai scriptures says that the individual Bahai members are not necessarily have a higher station than others who are not Bahai. Abdulbaha says, there could be people who even have never heard of Bahaullah, but their spiritual station may be higher than a person who calls himself Bahai, but does not really follow the teachings of Bahaullah.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Which Bahai follower on this thread is the true representation of Bahai? Is it Adrian. Is it loverof humanity? Is it Investigate Truth? Is it Arthra? You guys all give different interpretations of you prophet's teachings. Who should Carlita and I be addressing our questions to? We can't ask Baha'u'llah nor his son, nor his grandson because they are deceased. Once you tell me who the true interpreter is, then I'll just ask that person, and ignore the rest of you guys.

Excellent point. That is why we always need to quote Bahaullah, Abdulbaha or Shoghi Effendi, to show the Bahai Faith view.

 

[Vinayaka]

Bahais believe all Religions fundamentally agree with each other, though each had a unique religious Law that were suitable for their own Age. Bahaullah's religious Laws are suitable for this Age. Having said that, the Bahai scriptures says that the i dividual Bahai members are not necessarily have a higher station than others who are not Bahai. Abdulbaha says, there could be people who even have never heard of Bahaullah, but their spiritual station may be higher than a person who calls himself Bahai, but does not really follow the teachings of Bahaullah.

You went away off topic. The topic is: Do Bahai's consider that their religion is the best for them? I was told that they don't, simple as that. Which really begs the question: Why then, are you a Bahai? If some other religion is better, or they are all the same, then there is absolutely no need for you to be a Bahai.

 

[Vinayaka]

Excellent point. That is why we always need to quote Bahaullah, Abdulbaha or Shoghi Effendi, to show the Bahai Faith view.

Some will quote Baha'ullah, some will quote his son, or his grandson. Various quotes will be selected according to differing views etc. I don't think any of you can possibly take your individuality out of it. Of course I prefer individuality, not robots. It's far more human.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Some will quote Baha'ullah, some will quote his son, or his grandson. Various quotes will be selected according to differing views etc. I don't think any of you can possibly take your individuality out of it. Of course I prefer individuality, not robots. It's far more human.

Bahaullah, wrote His scriptures, then according to Him Abdulbaha, interprets His words. Shoghi Effendi, also, farther referred to words of Abdulbaha to implement Bahai Laws. So, essentially what Shoghi effendi wrote is in perfect harmony with Abdulbaha, and in turn with what Bahaullah wrote.


Sure, we do not have to be robot who just quotes, but I think a combination of our own words and Bahai Scriptures, would be the most accurate.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You went away off topic. The topic is: Do Bahai's consider that their religion is the best for them? I was told that they don't, simple as that. Which really begs the question: Why then, are you a Bahai? If some other religion is better, or they are all the same, then there is absolutely no need for you to be a Bahai.

Bahaullah says that each of the Manifestations had a specific Mission, and a Revelation that was suitable for their own time.
So, the Revelation of Muhammad is not suitable for our Age, and the Revelation of Bahaullah is not suitable for the Time of Muhammad, I quote Bahaullah:

"...each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined Revelation, and specially designated limitations. "


Also, He says, Their missions or revelations is like a physician who comes with specific Remedy to cure the problems, so, just as each Age has its own Problems, so, also the different is the remedy:

"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and centre your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Bahaullah
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Tabernacle of Unity, Pages 15-55


Now, suppose, last time, a person had flue. The doctor gives him, remedy for the flue. Another time he has a broken leg. He would have a different remedy and solution.
It is not that the remedy of flue is better than remedy for a broken leg, but each one is meant to cure the specific conditions. Likewise, the revelation of Bahaullah, Muhammad, or Buddha, are not better than each other. It is just that each is suitable for the Problems of Their Own Age.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Even if I believed in god, I don't put god or any sacred person and thing above me. It's belittling me and insulting the nature of humanity at an equal level rather than one of submission even in dialogue and theological thought.

You are correct. No body has the right to tell others their Religion has become distorted. But Bahais believe, there is an All-knowing God, who has the right to say so.

That is why Bahai tell others what is right and wrong. They feel they are excluded because they have permission from god. It's there. You're just not seeing it because god is "excluded" in this. How I see things, he is not.

The fact is, the founders of World Religions had said that, their religion will become misinterpreted, and its Truth will be forgotten.

That doesn't mean individual spirituality is lost. You're looking at similarities. You have to get to know the people not base it off of history.

So to me, what Bahais believe is consistent with what the Founders of Religions had said.

If you like.

If you say, No, these religions of the past had not been changed or misinterpreted, to me, that is ignoring what the Founders of Religions had said.

If talking about it as a whole, each founder predicted that their teachings will be lost. Do I believe they have? No, because I look at the individual not at sacred text because spirituality is about the person and community not words written in a book and definitely not someone else's history.

If you say, for example, No, a particular Hindu or Budhist sect does not have any prophecy regarding the distortion in their sect, then I have to ask you, what proof is there, that those other sects that have prophecies about future Manifestation, are false?

The Buddha had prophecies he didn't state that there are distortions in faith. He predicted they would be. Every sect of different religions are trying to keep to their original teachings.

You're not giving them credit and renewing their faith for today and using god as an excuse to do so. It's fine for your belief but to involve other people's beliefs is soooo wrong.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Which Bahai follower on this thread is the true representation of Bahai? Is it Adrian. Is it loverof humanity? Is it Investigate Truth? Is it Arthra? You guys all give different interpretations of you prophet's teachings. Who should Carlita and I be addressing our questions to? We can't ask Baha'u'llah nor his son, nor his grandson because they are deceased. Once you tell me who the true interpreter is, then I'll just ask that person, and ignore the rest of you guys.

I gotta hand you that one Vinayaka.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sure, we do not have to be robot who just quotes, but I think a combination of our own words and Bahai Scriptures, would be the most accurate.

Yes, I'm okay with that, coming from a prophet based religion that puts infallibility on the prophet. Of course, people like me from a non-prophet based faith don't feel so obligatory towards another person. Another major difference.

 

[Vinayaka]

Bahaullah says that each of the Manifestations had a specific Mission, and a Revelation that was suitable for their own time.
So, the Revelation of Muhammad is not suitable for our Age, and the Revelation of Bahaullah is not suitable for the Time of Muhammad, I quote Bahaullah:

"...each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined Revelation, and specially designated limitations. "


Also, He says, Their missions or revelations is like a physician who comes with specific Remedy to cure the problems, so, just as each Age has its own Problems, so, also the different is the remedy:

"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and centre your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Bahaullah
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Tabernacle of Unity, Pages 15-55


Now, suppose, last time, a person had flue. The doctor gives him, remedy for the flue. Another time he has a broken leg. He would have a different remedy and solution.
It is not that the remedy of flue is better than remedy for a broken leg, but each one is meant to cure the specific conditions. Likewise, the revelation of Bahaullah, Muhammad, or Buddha, are not better than each other. It is just that each is suitable for the Problems of Their Own Age.

You went away off topic again, a tactic I'm quite used to by now. Whenever an unexplainable contradiction appears, let's change the topic, hoping the other person doesn't catch it. lol

 

[Vinayaka]

I gotta hand you that one Vinayaka.

I can't tell whether I'm just here because of personal boredom, or for the humour it induces.

 

[Vinayaka]

Bahaullah, wrote His scriptures, then according to Him Abdulbaha, interprets His words. Shoghi Effendi, also, farther referred to words of Abdulbaha to implement Bahai Laws. So, essentially what Shoghi effendi wrote is in perfect harmony with Abdulbaha, and in turn with what Bahaullah wrote.


Sure, we do not have to be robot who just quotes, but I think a combination of our own words and Bahai Scriptures, would be the most accurate.

Pretty hard in those days to go against your own father or grandfather I guess. It's still hard today, but some people can do it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Bahais believe all Religions fundamentally agree with each other, though each had a unique religious Law that were suitable for their own Age. Bahaullah's religious Laws are suitable for this Age. Having said that, the Bahai scriptures says that the individual Bahai members are not necessarily have a higher station than others who are not Bahai. Abdulbaha says, there could be people who even have never heard of Bahaullah, but their spiritual station may be higher than a person who calls himself Bahai, but does not really follow the teachings of Bahaullah.

How can you believe all religions agree with each other when they even tell you they do not.

That's like telling a Christian and Pagan they agree with each other in beliefs even though in fact they are very very very opposed to each other. Their foundations are different. Their beliefs are different.

You're not looking at the spiritual differences but superficial similarities.

 

[Vinayaka]

How can you believe all religions agree with each other when they even tell you they do not.

Uhhh... We don't listen to what other people say, Carlita. We only listen to our leader. That's why.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Uhhh... We don't listen to what other people say, Carlita. We only listen to our leader. That's why.

beating a dead horse. Most likely boredom.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"...each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined Revelation, and specially designated limitations. "

If individuality and differences in missions were respected, they would not be seen as limitations. Since you're redefining someone else's faith, the limitations are what the interpreter puts on the beliefs not the beliefs/religions themselves. Let the religions do their thing. Don't try to fix something no one asked you to fix.

"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and centre your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Bahaullah

Christ and The Buddha are "doctors" of this day. Christ says he is the savior for all time periods. The Buddha says his Dharma will not die as long as people practice it. Christ and The Dharma are the doctors of yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

All prophet faiths say they have doctors for today not yesterday.

If you believe the god of christ and muhammad, god doesn't have prophets of a specific time period. The prophets and their teachings are relevant today.

Do you understand that?

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you understand that?

Oh no, not this again! lol

 

[Vinayaka]

Now, suppose, last time, a person had flue. The doctor gives him, remedy for the flue. Another time he has a broken leg. He would have a different remedy and solution.

Poor analogy, so I will be more direct.

Why are you a Baha'i'?

One thing that this 'progressive manifestations theory' doesn't take into account is religions that are alive today just as they were 6000 - 7000 years ago. We (Sanatana Dharma adherents) were there before any of your manifestation, kept going all through each of your manifestations, (despite one manifestation, in particular attempting genocide on us) don't see how any of your manifestions affected us, and are continuing to practice our faith today just as we did 7000 years ago, and my bet is we will be still going strong in another 1000 years. If we've lasted this far, it seems rather logical we'll last another 1000. Your faith, OTOH, is a couple of hundred years old. Certainly us lasting, with 200 times the number of adherents, seems at least somewhat more likely wouldn't you say?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Oh no, not this again! lol

Slip of the lip, lol