How can Christians not condemn homosexual behavior?

[Skwim]

In both the Old and New Testaments homosexuality is clearly condemned. So, if a Christian believes in the correctness of the the Bible I fail to see how they can condone or support homosexual behavior, even if they believe the homosexual disposition arises as naturally as the heterosexual disposition. Not that I'm not thankful for those who renounce or simply ignore these Biblical positions, but this picking and choosing in the Bible appears to be less than honest. So while I appreciate the many Christians who don't adhere to the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality, I have to wonder how they explain/rationalize it away.

Anyone care to take a stab at answering?

 

[Kathryn]

In both the Old and New Testaments homosexuality is clearly condemned. So, if a Christian believes in the correctness of the the Bible I fail to see how they can condone or support homosexual behavior, even if they believe the homosexual disposition arises as naturally as the heterosexual disposition. Not that I'm not thankful for those who renounce or simply ignore these Biblical positions, but this picking and choosing in the Bible appears to be less than honest. So while I appreciate the many Christians who don't adhere to the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality, I have to wonder how they explain/rationalize it away.

Anyone care to take a stab at answering?

I've had two glasses of merlot so I'll bite.

I am a Christian. I am also a libertarian.

As a Christian, I have my own personal opinions and beliefs about sexuality, beliefs that are based on what I believe to be the bible's teachings on the matter. Basically I believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and I believe that BIBLICAL marriage is between the two sexes - not same sex.

(Being a flawed human, I haven't always lived up to my own standard, but at least when I didn't, I didn't justify my actions. We all have standards - goals, if you will - that we strive toward, but don't always meet.)

As a libertarian, I believe that what consenting adults do, that doesn't infringe on the rights of others, is their own business. I don't have to agree with it morally in order to support their right to make their own choices. My lack of agreement with them doesn't negate my responsibility to respect them and their rights.

It also doesn't give me the right to force my belief system onto them. I don't believe in forcing beliefs anyway. I believe in LIVING beliefs joyfully and positively. "Preach the gospel always - when necessary, use words."

So - I genuinely respect those of other sexual orientations. It's not my place to judge them. Keeping my own life straight is a full time job.

 

[Me Myself]

To be fair, the OT laws commands that the homosexuals be killed and then says the blood in in their heads (the homosexual´s)

So if you are against homosexuality as a christian, you are to believe it is punishable by death, and also not to eat shrimp, pig and others.

On the same breath if you are low on cash, or siply want some more , it is okay to sell your daugther as a slave, as long as you do so according to God´s laws, detailed in the same OT.

 

[Kathryn]

To be fair, the OT laws commands that the homosexuals be killed and then says the blood in in their heads (the homosexual´s)

So if you are against homosexuality as a christian, you are to believe it is punishable by death, and also not to eat shrimp, pig and others.

On the same breath if you are low on cash, or siply want some more , it is okay to sell your daugther as a slave, as long as you do so according to God´s laws, detailed in the same OT.

Christians generally speaking do not believe we are bound to the letter of OT law, but are to focus on the SPIRIT of that law.

Present day Jews don't even follow the rigorous OT law!

 

[waitasec]

I am a Christian. I am also a libertarian.

what? i'm so confused!!! :sarcastic

 

[Me Myself]

The "spirit" of that law seems to point at that homosexualityis something that need be punished and that whatever punish it brings it is competely the homosexual´s fault.

What is the spirit of the law of not eating bacon?

 

[Road Warrior]

In both the Old and New Testaments homosexuality is clearly condemned.

What parts of the New Testament condemn homosexuality?

Homophobes cherry-pick the OT by picking the parts that support their hate and by completely disregarding the parts they don't like such as being able to eat Baby Back Ribs, a Shrimp Cocktail or even a Hot Dog.

 

[Desfox]

Romans 1:26-27
New International Version (NIV)
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 1:8-11
New International Version (NIV)
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.


There you have it, God against homosexuality in the new testament.

It is important that it is in the new testament because it is the "new covenant"
established by Jesus' sacrifice.

This is important, because if it truly was only contained in the Old Testament, I would not say that Christians can have a clear Biblical stance

(I just copied and pasted this from this topic, seems to apply to above's question, this is my post)
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-question-concerning-views-homosexuality.html

Edit: However, the New Testament says nothing about putting homosexuals to death. So while Christians should point out to the world that homosexuality is wrong, they shouldn't be trying to institute vigilante law to kill them, or make governmental laws. Basically, a Christian never has the right to kill a person just because they are a homosexual.

 

[waitasec]

What parts of the New Testament condemn homosexuality?

Homophobes cherry-pick the OT by picking the parts that support their hate and by completely disregarding the parts they don't like such as being able to eat Baby Back Ribs, a Shrimp Cocktail or even a Hot Dog.

romans 1
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


apparently if your gay it's because you are this


i think paul had a bad day when he wrote this....

 

[Road Warrior]

There you have it, God against homosexuality in the new testament.

First, it's not God who wrote those books, but the Apostle Paul.....who never met Jesus before the Crucifixion and it's only his testimony that he met Jesus after.

Second, Paul's words are a step backwards from what Jesus preached.

Third, how can we have free will if we condemn, imprison, execute or otherwise dictate what people can and can't do of their own free will as long as it isn't violating another person's free will?

 

[Skwim]

I've had two glasses of merlot so I'll bite.

Ahhh, merlot, one of my favorites.

That and a good gewürztraminer

I am a Christian. I am also a libertarian.

As a Christian, I have my own personal opinions and beliefs about sexuality, beliefs that are based on what I believe to be the bible's teachings on the matter. Basically I believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and I believe that BIBLICAL marriage is between the two sexes - not same sex.

I assume then you also believe homosexual behavior is wrong, but that you stop short of following the Biblical condemnation of it; you don't condemn homosexuality.

As a libertarian, I believe that what consenting adults do, that doesn't infringe on the rights of others, is their own business. I don't have to agree with it morally in order to support their right to make their own choices. My lack of agreement with them doesn't negate my responsibility to respect them and their rights.

Is this respect of them in spite of their homosexuality? That you can respect someone who knowingly participates in an activity condemned by your god? Not to put words in your mouth, but if this is so then I see it as no different than respecting the prostitute, the thief, or the blasphemer. Or Is there a difference I'm not keying in on?

 

[Desfox]

romans 1
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


apparently if your gay it's because you are this


i think paul had a bad day when he wrote this....

Just want to say that homosexuality in only a part of this.
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people." This is a description of completely wicked and "godless" people.

If you are only drawing "gays" out of this you are not interpreting the verse right (just like Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed just because of the homosexual relations)

 

[Desfox]

First, it's not God who wrote those books, but the Apostle Paul.....who never met Jesus before the Crucifixion and it's only his testimony that he met Jesus after.

Second, Paul's words are a step backwards from what Jesus preached.

Third, how can we have free will if we condemn, imprison, execute or otherwise dictate what people can and can't do of their own free will as long as it isn't violating another person's free will?

Well your first point is a disagreement on the Bible, not whether the Bible condemns homosexuality. The Bible is God's words according to Christians (every book in it).

Could you please explain why in your second point?

And the New Testament does not call for the execution of homosexuals, or even their imprisonment.

Your final point has to deal with whether you think any laws should be made. For example, from that line of reasoning, I cannot enforce traffic laws because some people don't want to follow them (or murder for that matter). Is this the position you are taking?

Sorry for the double post, I was writing something else and missed your response.

 

[Me Myself]

There you have it, God against homosexuality in the new testament.

By Paul, not Jesus.

 

[Desfox]

By Paul, not Jesus.

Well since this thread is not about whether you agree with Christians or not, this does not apply.

This thread is "How can Christians not condemn homosexual behavior"
Christians believe the entire Bible is God's word, every single book by every single author(including Paul).

So, Christians can not help condemning homosexuality, but only to the degree of pointing out that it is wrong and not supporting it.

I don't think I can introduce more clarity on what the "Orthodox"/Standard Christian view is.

 

[Me Myself]

This thread is "How can Christians not condemn homosexual behavior"
Christians believe the entire Bible is God's word, every single book by every single author(including Paul).

False.

And I know for a fact I am not the only christian who disbelieves a lot of the bible.

 

[Desfox]

False.

And I know for a fact I am not the only christian who disbelieves a lot of the bible.

Wait, you're no disagreeing with what I said the thread was titled right...

As I put in my post, I am stating "Orthodox/Standard" Christian views/theology.

You fall outside of that, and others do as well, but this doesn't invalidate my point.

I suppose since we are going down this road, someone could start a "How man Christians condemn homosexuality on this forum." That seems to reflect where this thread is going.

 

[Me Myself]

I suppose since we are going down this road, someone could start a "How man Christians condemn homosexuality on this forum." That seems to reflect where this thread is going.

How "man" christians? o.o I am a man!

I think you mean to say the thread should say how can an ortodox christian believe such.

In any case, I think the thread meant to get a variety of responses, by the way it was put my answer is simply fitting.

that said, I do understand the general problem, which you may look at the 1st page of the thread I was debating with Kathyrin

 

[Desfox]

How "man" christians? o.o I am a man! :eek!:

I think you mean to say the thread should say how can an ortodox christian believe such.

In any case, I think the thread meant to get a variety of responses, by the way it was put my answer is simply fitting.

that said, I do understand the general problem, which you may look at the 1st page of the thread I was debating with Kathyrin

Sorry, don't get me wrong, I know now that you know what you are talking about.

Its just that at first some person just kept on telling me I was wrong about Christians, and I had no context, so I was confused and trying to specify my point.

Then you said you were a Christian, and then [light bulb] it made sense.

I just didn't know where you were coming from and why you kept on simple telling me :no:

Yeah, I meant to say "How manY Christians condemn homosexuality on this forum."

Your alternative topic works too.

 

[Me Myself]

I just said that your allegation of "christians believe x" was wrong because "christians" is SO wide.

Even Christian atheists exist.

Ultimately, you only have to believe you are following _Jesus´s teachings to be a christian. Even when your interpretations vary wildly form othe rpeople´s, and if you dont share materials other people have added it on.

Actually, the problem was your first assumption: the second I said "by paul, not Jesus" you immidiately taugth I wasn´t christian? that is in my view (and for another topoc ) exactly what is wrong with christianity from times to time. I say not take Paul´s words as Christs words and I am not a christian?

Curious curious stuff