Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Just curious? And since we have a Pagan Atheist on the forums now, maybe they can answer for me. 
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How can one be a Pagan Atheist?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Right. Many pagans view the Gods as Jungian-style archetypes. Chaos magic, which has and continues to heavily influence Neo-paganism sees belief as a tool: different jobs need different tools.
Many Pagans also believe in spiritual energy, but may not believe in a God. So what they work with is spiritual but not divine in a theistic sense.
Other Pagans may see the world in a purely scientific, non-spiritual way but still find a great sense of wonder and awe, and feel the need to celebrate it.
I would assume that if a Pagan was an atheist, it would mean that they follow the traditions, but don't believe in Gods. Just like a Christian can be an atheist- they believe in Jesus teachings, but they don't believe in any God.
Revasser
Terrible Dancer
I suspect the past is full of pagan atheists, but they were probably not recorded as such (if recorded at all). They follow the traditions, participate in rituals, obey the ethical codes because that's the done thing in their society.
Something you have to remember about pre-monotheist religions in many places is that they tended to be orthopraxic rather than orthodoxic. That is, that a person acts the right way is important, rather than a person believing the right way.
In modern times I think it's entirely possible for a recon or neo-pagan to act in accordance with a tradition but not necessarily believe all the supernatural stuff. There can be many reasons for following a religion that don't have to involve belief. They may find the ethical codes laudable, they may feel strongly toward the myths (without thinking of them as Truth), they may feel drawn to it for ethnic reasons, or they may simply have a distaste for the major religion in their society and choose one less offensive to them as an outlet. None of these reasons necessitate a belief in the existence of deities.
Having been involved in things pagan in the past, my experience is that zealous young converts and Americans tend get hung up on the belief thing more than anyone else. The former because all religious newbies tend to be that way at first and the latter I imagine is a cultural thing over there.
Something you have to remember about pre-monotheist religions in many places is that they tended to be orthopraxic rather than orthodoxic. That is, that a person acts the right way is important, rather than a person believing the right way.
In modern times I think it's entirely possible for a recon or neo-pagan to act in accordance with a tradition but not necessarily believe all the supernatural stuff. There can be many reasons for following a religion that don't have to involve belief. They may find the ethical codes laudable, they may feel strongly toward the myths (without thinking of them as Truth), they may feel drawn to it for ethnic reasons, or they may simply have a distaste for the major religion in their society and choose one less offensive to them as an outlet. None of these reasons necessitate a belief in the existence of deities.
Having been involved in things pagan in the past, my experience is that zealous young converts and Americans tend get hung up on the belief thing more than anyone else. The former because all religious newbies tend to be that way at first and the latter I imagine is a cultural thing over there.
Azakel
Liebe ist für alle da
Do you know many Pagan Americans? While sure sure some might get hung up on belief many of us don't. And some good example are right here on RF, I think most(if not close to all) the Pagans here live in America. And I think that the person who has her tag a Atheist Pagan also lives in the States.
Though I will agree about the young converts, I was like that....now look at me :magic:
Noaidi
slow walker
Glad to see this issue being discussed. I joined this site recently with the aim of finding out how people reconciled the idea of not believing in deities but still celebrate Nature in a spiritual (or pantheistic) way. From the above answers, I've got what I'm after!
Although I've got the terms 'Atheist Pagan' on my profile, I find that labels sometimes don't fully provide the meaning of what I'm trying to describe.
Although I've got the terms 'Atheist Pagan' on my profile, I find that labels sometimes don't fully provide the meaning of what I'm trying to describe.
Revasser
Terrible Dancer
Not any longer, but I used to chat regularly with plenty (only knew one in person). It was my experience that of those pagans I was acquainted with, the ones who got hung up on belief tended to be Americans more than Europeans or locals. It wasn't always belief in whatever gods they professed to worship, if you can believe that. Some of the most heated arguments among pagans were about belief in the Abrahamic god!
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Well Revasser you know with my Monist view of God, I don't necessarily view them differently. Pagans have all sorts of varying views. However, I can't say that, my mother (Sekhmet-Mut) doesn't want me comparing her to the Abrahamic god, so I can't say for sure I might not be wrong. The gods like exclusive devotion. They don't like to be lumped together. My Monist view could be accurate, but they still don't like being lumped together.
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
One could be a sun worshipper but not worship the sun as a deity, just merely be happy for the sun's presence an celebrate it every day. I think that would qualify them as a Pagan atheist.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Paganism isn't just one set of beliefs. It's more of an umbrella term.
I'm a chaote, i don't believe in gods. But i do believe that they can be useful as metaphors for intent.
I'm a chaote, i don't believe in gods. But i do believe that they can be useful as metaphors for intent.
Here is but a small selection of the teachings of Jesus. Matt 4: 16; so they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven. 5: 48; You must be perfect just as you Father in heaven is perfect. 6: 1; If you do these things publicly, you will receive no reward from your Father in heaven. 6: 4; Pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what you do in private will reward you. 6: 8; Your Father already knows what you need before you ask him. 6: 9; Our Father who art in heaven, etc. 6: 14; Your Father in heaven will also forgive you. 6: 15; Then your Father will forgive the wrongs that you have done. 6: 18; Only your Father will know and your Father will reward you. 6: 26; Your Father in heaven takes care of them. 6: 32; Your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things.
Now can you please explain how you can justify the ridiculous statement, quote=ChristineES; "Just like a Christian can be an atheist- they believe in Jesus teachings, but they don't believe in any God." How can a christian, who believes in the teachings of Jesus, be clasified as a godless atheist?
One who does not worship the sun, but is just merely happy for the sun's presence and celebrates its appearance every day, is not a pagan/atheist. That person is merely a godless atheist that loves the sun.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
S-word there are so-called Atheist Christians rather you like it or not. Look up: atheistsforjesus.com
Azakel
Liebe ist für alle da
Okay, thank you for explaining ^_^
Azakel
Liebe ist für alle da
And who gave you the right to tell someone what there are or aren't? Seem like he has a good way of explaining what an Atheist Pagan can be, while you just really don't know what you are talking about.
I am glad you used the the term, "SO-CALLED.' They may believe whatever they wish, and call themselves whatever they want to, but an Athiest is one who has no God, while a christian is one who worships the God of Jesus Christ according to his teachings.
You can be one or the other, you can be a godless atheist, or a christian who worships the God of Jesus Christ according to his teachings, "Our Father who are in heaven hallowed be thy name," but you cannot be both, if a person refuses to worship our heavenly Father, or any other god, that person is a godless atheist. If that person adhere to the 10 commandments and yet worships some false god, they are not a godless atheist as they at least believe in some god, but they are not a christian.
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I have the right to quote from the dictionary, which defines Atheism as: -- Disbelief or denial of the existence of God. -- The doctrine that there is no God, or that the word "God" and statements about it or using it are meaningless.
I have the right to quote from the dictionary, which defines a Christian, as: "One who professes the belief that Jesus is the Christ and who follows and lives according to the teachings of Jesus.
And here are some of the teachings of Jesus, Matt 4: 16; so they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven. 5: 48; You must be perfect just as you Father in heaven is perfect. 6: 1; If you do these things publicly, you will receive no reward from your Father in heaven. 6: 4; Pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what you do in private will reward you. 6: 8; Your Father already knows what you need before you ask him. 6: 9; Our Father who art in heaven, etc. 6: 14; Your Father in heaven will also forgive you. 6: 15; Then your Father will forgive the wrongs that you have done. 6: 18; Only your Father will know and your Father will reward you. 6: 26; Your Father in heaven takes care of them. 6: 32; Your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things.
Now then, what gives you the right to claim that a godless atheist, can classify themself as a christian, who is one who obeys the teachings of Jesus Christ, who said that we should pray to his God and our God, to his Father and our Father, in this manner, "Our Father who are in heaven hallowed be thy name, etc," some godless atheist from some godless atheist forum, who has converted you to their godless belief?
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