How can one know they have a soul or spirit?

[Rainbow Mage]

The soul is usually defined as the seat of the self, or that sense of 'I' that would remain if the body with its functions shut down. Some define spirit in this way, and yet others call it the Atman.

How is it that one can posit the self has a seat or permanence to it, when the sense of being is comprised of many factors- mostly things people experience in their lives?

Take away any one of these experiences, and the sense of self wouldn't be the same. We wouldn't feel like the same person.

Presumably the entire sense of self can be deconstructed in this way, until we come to no mind elements, and states are just passing moments.

How then does one put forth in contrast to this, that we have a soul?

 

[viole]

The soul is usually defined as the seat of the self, or that sense of 'I' that would remain if the body with its functions shut down. Some define spirit in this way, and yet others call it the Atman.

How is it that one can posit the self has a seat or permanence to it, when the sense of being is comprised of many factors- mostly things people experience in their lives?

Take away any one of these experiences, and the sense of self wouldn't be the same. We wouldn't feel like the same person.

Presumably the entire sense of self can be deconstructed in this way, until we come to no mind elements, and states are just passing moments.

How then does one put forth in contrast to this, that we have a soul?

The question is whether souls have binocular vision. According to some near death experiences, it seems to be the case.

Another puzzling thing is why spiritual souls react so badly to something as mundane and physical as 10 vodka shots within 10 minutes.

I always wondered why.

Ciao

- viole

 

[allfoak]

Presumably the entire sense of self can be deconstructed in this way, until we come to no mind elements, and states are just passing moments.

Who is it that observes this?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The brain still keeps generating a sense of self, far as I can tell, and the brain can't be made to stop this, anymore than the leg can stop moving unless it 'dies'- is broken. That doesn't mean there's a seated observer. Turn the lights out and the perception changes. Carry that to any number of scenarios. People get brain damage, and they're still alive, but there is no cognitive abilities.

 

[Quintessence]

How is it that one can posit the self has a seat or permanence to it, when the sense of being is comprised of many factors- mostly things people experience in their lives?

I don't get it either. Everything changes. And this is why I don't abide by my culture's prevailing ideas about what "soul" and "spirit" mean.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I do not say that anyone really observes it, and it only appears so. I hold that the sense of being is entirely void.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The soul is usually defined as the seat of the self, or that sense of 'I' that would remain if the body with its functions shut down. Some define spirit in this way, and yet others call it the Atman.

How is it that one can posit the self has a seat or permanence to it, when the sense of being is comprised of many factors- mostly things people experience in their lives?

Take away any one of these experiences, and the sense of self wouldn't be the same. We wouldn't feel like the same person.

Presumably the entire sense of self can be deconstructed in this way, until we come to no mind elements, and states are just passing moments.

How then does one put forth in contrast to this, that we have a soul?

You sound like a Buddhist.

 

[Thanda]

The body is a vehicle through which the self (which would otherwise be invisible) interacts with the visible world. The brain is the CPU which controls messages passed between the self and the body. When the brain fails, the self becomes limited in the way it is able to express itself.

 

[Quintessence]

The body is a vehicle through which the self (which would otherwise be invisible) interacts with the visible world. The brain is the CPU which controls messages passed between the self and the body. When the brain fails, the self becomes limited in the way it is able to express itself.

That's an interesting way of looking at it! It raises a question, I think - you address here the mechanism behind something like brain damage, but what about people themselves changing through life experiences? As Rainbow Mage states in the OP, if the soul is some permanent seat of the self, how can it change in accord with life experiences? Or at all, for that matter? Do you believe that people simply never change?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Who is it that observes this?

That's a good question, but a tricky one. I don't have a clear answer to it.

 

[atanu]

I do not say that anyone really observes it, and it only appears so. I hold that the sense of being is entirely void.

Why do you hold that sense of being is entirely void? Did someone tell you or did you experience it yourself? If you experienced it yourself then did you notice the seat of the one who experienced the void?

 

[Aupmanyav]

"How can one know they have a soul or spirit?"

It is a very simple experiment and has been done in India - put a dying man in a air-tight glass casket. As soon as the person dies, the casket develops a crack proving that something has gone out of the casket.

Further more, Christians use wooden caskets which do not break and retain the soul, so that the person can be raised by God at the end of times. That is why evil spirits (Dracula and other vampires) sometimes come out of their caskets. Hindus do not use caskets because they need the soul to be free for reincarnations. Their souls are immediately freed with the funeral.

So simple, I wonder why people ask this question!

 

[viole]

"How can one know they have a soul or spirit?"

It is a very simple experiment and has been done in India - put a dying man in a air-tight glass casket. As soon as the person dies, the casket develops a crack proving that something has gone out of the casket.

So, souls are physical (and macroscopic) after all. They need to break an electromagnetic barrier in order to escape.

They must be bigger than an electron though, given that an electron can go out of a casket without breaking it. It is called the tunnel effect.

It is a bit disappointing that spirits and souls cannot do what an electron can.

I guess the movie "ghost", where ghosts could go through walls without breaking them, was based on a false premise

By the way, how is putting a dying man in an airtight casket different from euthanasia?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Aupmanyav]

Souls of enlightened persons can cross hundred meters of concrete. It is a matter of 'soul power'. But there are few such persons.

 

[McBell]

How can one know they have a soul or spirit?

Seems to me the answer depends entirely upon how each person defines "soul" and "spirit".

 

[allfoak]

That's a good question, but a tricky one. I don't have a clear answer to it.

I understand about the tricky part.
We do not have science to rely on for an answer to this question so we must turn to our experience.
This is a tricky notion because it involves the inability to convince others that what we know is the truth.
We have to rely on ourselves.

It is my experience and the experience of many others that the one doing the observing is our eternal soul.
It appears as a being of light, it is not the direct light of God but rather the light from our higher-self (our soul).
Some would call it God but it cannot be God because it is us.
Our soul is separate from God like our body consciousness is separate from our soul.

This means that we can communicate directly with our own soul.
and through our soul, communicate with God the Logos or the Word.
All of the answers to all of the questions we have are available to us through our soul-self.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The soul is usually defined as the seat of the self, or that sense of 'I' that would remain if the body with its functions shut down. Some define spirit in this way, and yet others call it the Atman.

How is it that one can posit the self has a seat or permanence to it, when the sense of being is comprised of many factors- mostly things people experience in their lives?

Take away any one of these experiences, and the sense of self wouldn't be the same. We wouldn't feel like the same person.

Presumably the entire sense of self can be deconstructed in this way, until we come to no mind elements, and states are just passing moments.

How then does one put forth in contrast to this, that we have a soul?

I dont believe in a soul. Our spirit compromises all of what we experience and take in personally that it becomes our identity. It is how we relate to others, ourselves, and how we view reality (our faith). We become so attached that we put aside the psychology and sociology etc that shapes why we think what we think in relation to ourselves and to others.

So when someone says "the spirit of god is in them" I take that to mean the sum of all his experiences he attributed from god is a part of his identity (self) and a part of how he sees the world.

Does he have a real spirit? No. Its not isolated from our experiences in the world. Our spirits are in everything and everyone. But soul? I honestly dont know what that means as we are spirit.

 

[allfoak]

It is the parable of the prodigal son.
The soul goes on a journey to the far country and the spirit stays home.
Eventually the soul comes home.

 

[George-ananda]

The soul is usually defined as the seat of the self, or that sense of 'I' that would remain if the body with its functions shut down. Some define spirit in this way, and yet others call it the Atman.

I use two different terms soul ('the seat of the self (lower-case 's') as you put it) and spirit (which is the infinite One consciousness or Atman).

How is it that one can posit the self has a seat or permanence to it, when the sense of being is comprised of many factors- mostly things people experience in their lives?

The sense of being you are talking about is an ego (us) formed by the events of bodies (of the physical/astral/mental lower planes). This ego does have an ever-growing soul (a vehicle/body on the Causal plane) that experiences and influences the ego. This soul is not permanent but lasts for many lifetimes/experiences until Liberation/Nirvana/Moksha.

Take away any one of these experiences, and the sense of self wouldn't be the same. We wouldn't feel like the same person.
Presumably the entire sense of self can be deconstructed in this way, until we come to no mind elements, and states are just passing moments.

Yes, the ego is built from all its experiences and thoughts.

How then does one put forth in contrast to this, that we have a soul?

The soul is the repository if its many lower plane experiences. In normal reality we are the ego (physical/astral/mental). At a higher more real level we are a soul body having a physical experience. At the ultimate reality we are spirit/Atman.

 

[Akivah]

The soul is permanent, in that it can't be destroyed. However this permanence doesn't mean that the soul doesn't change. Our life experiences do in fact change our souls.