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How can one lose their salvation?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I agree too.
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...
you will always be forgiven for those things that you do not understand... and there are clearly a lot of things that you do not understand...

Who are the 'they' of verse 34 ?______
Jesus was addressing the Roman soldiers.
They [Roman soldiers] are the 'they' of verse 34.

They [soldiers] are Not the 'they' of Hebrews 6 vs 4-6.

The times of ignorance [for our day] is now past....Acts 17 vs 30,31
 
Stop walking in the light and you lose your salvation and darkness overcomes you.

It is written;

"Walk in the light while you have it or darkness will come over you."

"Whoever is not willing to take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me."

"Once you have the light keep faith in the light"

"Anyone who drinks the water I give him will never become thirsty"

"The wicked will remain wicked, they will have no understanding but the wise will have it."
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
...and the wicked will remain wicked only existing for a temporary time because according to Proverbs [2 vs 21 22] the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.

The 'time of separation' is nearing.- Matthew 25 vs 31,32
 

Green Kepi

Active Member
How to Become a Christian: (Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, Be Immersed, and then attempt to Live Faithfully as a Christian)....
Acts 4:12; 22:16; 1Peter 3:30-31; Galatians 3:26-27 and Luke 10:16.

Romans 10:17; Hebrews 11:6; Matthew 10:32-33; Revelation 2:10 and Act 2:38.
 

Reverend Richard

New Thought Minister
I wanted to know how to lose it so that I might have a better understanding of how to carry out that action as to de-sensitize myself to the pain attached to my old beliefs... so that I can not be as angry about it all and therefore I can have more tolerance of Christians.

@Jason - perhaps you should approach this differently.

I, too, am a former fundamentalist Christian. And like you I found myself intolerant of many Christians; especially those who are fundamentalist. Why? Because it reminded me too much of who I was, and not who or how I wanted to be. And it wasn't just that. I found that the guilt associated with my former fundamentalist faith would flare up at times and I would begin to question whether I had done the right thing by turning my back on the Christian beliefs I had held so tightly. I sat though dozens of hell-fire and brimstone sermons by ministers who preached clearly what would happen to those who turned their back on the salvation offered by Jesus Christ.

So, Jason, I don't believe that "losing your salvation" is really how you should approach this. Changing or letting go of old beliefs and "mind habits" is more of a process, and it's not like flipping a switch. IMHO the mind simply doesn't work that way.

What I would suggest is to figure out what you new belief system is (or what you would like it to be) and begin reading and studying books that appeal to your new spiritual sensibilities. Or if you are trying to let go of "religion" totally, read books written by some of the more popular atheistic authors.

Just a suggestion from someone who has been through something similar.

Humbly,

Rev. Rick
 
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Scripture outright states that faith without works is dead.

If you do not confess or atone your sins, you will, by definition, lose your religion.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Scripture outright states that faith without works is dead.

Faith without reason is shallow.
Recital and ritual fail.

If you do not confess or atone your sins, you will, by definition, lose your religion.

As we stand before God...all arrive naked.
You will not be able to hide what you really are.

Lose my religion?...too late....note my banner.

But that doesn't mean I gave up faith.
Stick around....you'll see.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
@Jason - perhaps you should approach this differently.

I, too, am a former fundamentalist Christian. And like you I found myself intolerant of many Christians; especially those who are fundamentalist. Why? Because it reminded me too much of who I was, and not who or how I wanted to be. And it wasn't just that. I found that the guilt associated with my former fundamentalist faith would flare up at times and I would begin to question whether I had done the right thing by turning my back on the Christian beliefs I had held so tightly. I sat though dozens of hell-fire and brimstone sermons by ministers who preached clearly what would happen to those who turned their back on the salvation offered by Jesus Christ.

So, Jason, I don't believe that "losing your salvation" is really how you should approach this. Changing or letting go of old beliefs and "mind habits" is more of a process, and it's not like flipping a switch. IMHO the mind simply doesn't work that way.

What I would suggest is to figure out what you new belief system is (or what you would like it to be) and begin reading and studying books that appeal to your new spiritual sensibilities. Or if you are trying to let go of "religion" totally, read books written by some of the more popular atheistic authors.

Just a suggestion from someone who has been through something similar.

Humbly,

Rev. Rick

You had me nodding my head up to that one line.
Bad advice to someone still holding to dogma.
Giving up your head nodding is one thing...
Giving your ear to non-believers in hope of sharpening your sword?...nay.
 

Reverend Richard

New Thought Minister
You had me nodding my head up to that one line.
Bad advice to someone still holding to dogma.
Giving up your head nodding is one thing...
Giving your ear to non-believers in hope of sharpening your sword?...nay.

I am a believer in "full disclosure". I have gone from belief, to non-belief, and back again to being a believer. I found reading books and blogs by atheists only helped me to make an informed decision. I still had to make up my own mind. This is from someone who was once a fundamentalist.

Advice is worth exactly what one pays for it, but that's all it is - advice.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I am a believer in "full disclosure". I have gone from belief, to non-belief, and back again to being a believer. I found reading books and blogs by atheists only helped me to make an informed decision. I still had to make up my own mind. This is from someone who was once a fundamentalist.

Interesting that you mention books/blogs by atheists helped you.
I do not know what helped atheist Antony Flew, but after several decades
Mr. Flew concluded that there are evils in abundance which could not be put down to a consequence of human sin.

Mr. Flew also concluded that DNA research has shown by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved.
 
Let's assume one is saved and wants to destroy their salvation.

[SIZE=-1]Mark 3:28-29 and [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Matthew 12:31-32 at a first glance look like a good way, but most of what I hear says that actually means to not believe in Jesus.

Is there any other way to lose your salvation?
[/SIZE]

Only way is as stated in Matthew 12:31-32 to reject the holy spirit.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It is a code of behavior... and fair warning.

Don't want to be saved?
Simply undo everything that your hand touches.
Undo every effort your fellow man might endeavor.
Be the Adversary to all...in every way.

And sooner or later...no one will reach out for you.

No longer saved.

Hahahahahhahahaha this is great good post theif.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Depends on the branch of Christianity.

For most, simply avoiding to accept Jesuschrist as your Lord and savior from here till you die will definitely get you frying in hell for ever if that is what you "wish". :p (Although being deliberately a **** would also help a lot)

"Unfortunately" in most interpretations yo simply will always have a chance until the day you die. So I guess the only thing you could do now is like, suicide while cursing Jesus or something.

Of course by my completely heretical branch of Christianism you cannot hide from salvation no matter how hard you try. :p
 
Whoa, this topic is an embarrassment.



But what does that actually mean?

Sorry for the long read but might help you.

Blasphemy is defined in The Random House College Dictionary as: The crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God. We can blaspheme God the Father or God the Son and be forgiven. What is the difference between them and God the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost is that third of God presently on earth to aid Christians. We receive this aid after individually believing in Jesus Christ and asking to receive the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit or Comforter was not sent to Christians until Jesus departed the earth. Jesus spoke the following to the apostles shortly after his resurrection:

And being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4-5)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

Assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God is exactly what Satan did when he rebelled against God. He attempted to usurp God's authority. It is also the sin Satan wants us to commit by believing the lie; "Ye shall not surely die." By believing this lie we assume the one quality of God which we lack -- that of eternal life.

Consider this. If blasphemy is the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God, and believing that one is born with an immortal soul assumes the eternal life quality of God, then are those who believe the immortal soul myth committing blasphemy? It would certainly seem so.

On the other hand, remember the innocence quality of children in that they cannot commit sin until they understand that the associated act constitutes a sin. So it would not be blasphemous to believe you are immortal like God if you did not realize you were committing blasphemy. You were ignorant of the fact that it was a sin. In fact, religious leaders with doctoral degrees teach the immortal soul myth as truth. So up until this time you have not been committing the unpardonable sin by believing you were born with immortality like God. Until now, you have accepted a misinterpretation as fact. Guess what? Now you know! In fact, the Bible's definition of blasphemy is assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God:

And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? (Luke 5:20-21)

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:31-33)

So Jesus was accused of blasphemy which is defined as a man assuming the qualities of God. Since all men are mortal beings, when they assume the godly characteristic of eternal life, they commit blasphemy. In addition, they commit what we might call "reverse blasphemy" by assigning human qualities to God! Anger, vindictiveness, and hatred are all qualities of man, not God.

Anyone who would punish others with eternal torture in hell simply for not believing in him, obviously is very angry, vindictive, and hateful. Those characteristics do not apply to God. God is love. Therefore, God did not create such a system -- man did! Man created the immortal soul myth and its associated punishment under Satan's influence. If you believe God created a system whereby billions of people will suffer in hell eternally, you belittle God by assigning to Him human qualities!

Let us consider why the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and placed angels on the earth as caretakers under supervision of the archangel Satan. However, Satan wanted more power. He wanted to be like the most high God:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (Isaiah 14:12-14)

Not satisfied being an archangel, Satan desired to be like the most High God. So he rebelled and attempted to usurp the power and authority of God. Satan thus committed blasphemy. God then created man a little lower than the angels during the Genesis recreation of the earth. Man is mortal but can become equal unto the angels when born again as a spirit at or after the Second Coming of Christ. Once man is born again as a spiritual body, he will be immortal and live forever. These new angels being created from mortal men and women will then assume the duties of the rebellious angels on earth.

If immortal replacements are being created to replace the rebels, then certainly one characteristic which they must not possess is that quality which caused the originals to fail! The original crew committed blasphemy against Jesus, the creator of the earth. They rebelled against His creation and failed in their responsibility as earthly caretakers. The Trinity's current day-to-day representative assigned to aid Christians on the earth is the Holy Ghost. Thus, the one unpardonable sin which man must not commit is this similar sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost! Any man who commits this sin cannot be born again as a spirit. God does not desire to create more immortal spirits with the same character flaw which caused the originals to fail.

Only those believing in Jesus will gain eternal life. A person who commits blasphemy by assigning to himself godly characteristics believes in himself, not Jesus. Therefore, these people do not qualify for eternal life under the New Testament covenant of John 3:16 since they do not believe in Jesus, but themselves. Meek, humble humans are going to inherit eternal life, not holier than thou blasphemers.

Christians born again as spiritual beings shall inherit the earth with Jesus Christ as their leader. These new spiritual caretakers will not be self-aggrandized, holier than thou, power grabbing, blasphemous spirits! In fact, the Bible describes them as follows:

But the meek shall inherit the earth... (Psalm 37:11)

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (Matthew 5:5)

No human with the character flaw which caused Satan and some of his angels to rebel will be allowed to become immortal and live forever! There is an additional passage in the Bible relating to an unpardonable situation:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fade away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of man afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6)
 
Whoa, this topic is an embarrassment.



But what does that actually mean?

This states that once one accepts Christ and receives the Holy Ghost, then falls away from them, it is impossible to repent again and restore this relationship. Turning away from the Holy Ghost after having accepting Him is described here as unforgivable. These people are locked out.

How does this scripture tie in with the unpardonable sin described in Matthew and Luke? That sin was blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Is it possible to blaspheme against something or someone which one does not know or understand? Remember that one cannot receive the Holy Ghost until he truly believes in Jesus. Therefore, the above scripture may simply be another wording of the unpardonable sin.

If one partook of the Holy Ghost and then faded away from the Holy Ghost, did he commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost? Why would one fade away from the Holy Ghost? That person would have reached a point of believing he no longer needed the Holy Ghost. "I will make my own decisions." He would feel as or more powerful than the Holy Ghost. He thus commits blasphemy against the Holy Ghost by assuming to himself powers of the Holy Ghost. The power he assumed is assisting and guiding Christians on the earth -- namely himself. That is, he will make decisions for himself. Therefore, he commits the one unpardonable sin and it is impossible to renew his relationship with God.

It is clear that one is not held accountable for sin until he understands that the offense is a sin, and then chooses to commit that sin:

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

Although people can read or be informed that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin, can they truly understand that concept until accepting Jesus and actually receiving the Holy Ghost? If the answer is no, then the unpardonable sin can be paraphrased as:

Once a person accepts Jesus and receives the Holy Ghost, if he then blasphemes the Holy Ghost, he can never attain eternal life.

That is, a being cannot reject or blaspheme the Holy Ghost until he receives and understands it. If he then rejects or blasphemes the Holy Ghost, he will never be forgiven. This opens eternal life up to some extremely despicable characters. What about Adolf Hitler? Did he ever commit the unpardonable sin? Was he a Christian who received the Holy Ghost? Probably not. Therefore, he could never have rejected or blasphemed the Holy Ghost. Consequently, he will be resurrected during the second resurrection following the millennium. Satan is locked away and Hitler's eyes will be opened to his stupidity during his earthly life. If he asks for forgiveness and accepts Christ, he will be born again into the Kingdom of God. If not, he will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer the second death since he is mortal.

If Hitler accepts Christ after the second resurrection, he would still be judged on his works, which would be nil. Therefore, his position of authority would also be nil. This judgment by works creates an inverse sorting mechanism. That is, people who were powerful on earth would tend to filter down to the bottom when judged by their works. Little known, humble people on earth, would sort up towards the top levels. This is precisely what the Bible states:

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. (Matthew 19:30)

Many that are first as judged by men will be last in the Kingdom of God. Those judged as the lowest levels under man's rule shall become first in the Kingdom of God. Note that it is many, not all. It is possible, but unlikely, for wealthy, powerful people as judged by man to also be humble Christians.

Works deemed important to God are not those which make men more important and powerful here on earth. Works important to God would include spreading the gospel, feeding the poor, healing the sick, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting those in prison, etc. The same attributes here on earth do not lead to wealth, fame, and power:

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. (Matthew 23:12)

The best biblical example of a being who committed the unpardonable sin is of course Satan. Satan desired to be like the most high God. Therefore, he rebelled and thus committed blasphemy against God. At one time, Satan must have been held in high regard to become an archangel and be given authority over the entire earth. Did he originally accept and respect his superiors of the Trinity of God? We can certainly expect that was one criteria for his getting the assignment. He then rejected the Trinity of God's authority when he rebelled. Satan obviously committed blasphemy.

Nowhere in the Bible is it ever even hinted that Satan can be forgiven, even if he sought forgiveness. This is because Satan committed the unpardonable sin! Through the immortal soul myth, Satan is now attempting to get man to commit that same unpardonable sin! Satan's eventual fate is torment day and night forever in hell. On the other hand, the angels which he drew into the rebellion can be forgiven.

One can imagine how the angels under Satan's authority might be torn between allegiances. Satan is their immediate supervisor, and God is above him. If you have ever had a similar experience at work, you will understand their dilemma. That is, if your immediate supervisor orders you to do something that is obviously wrong for the company, what do you do? You can either go over his head to his superior or do what you feel is wrong. But either way you can get in trouble! Given these extenuating circumstances, the angels which Satan drew into the rebellion can repent and be forgiven. Jesus has already preached to them in prison:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (I Peter 3:19)
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
Nowhere in the Bible is it ever even hinted that Satan can be forgiven, even if he sought forgiveness. This is because Satan committed the unpardonable sin! Through the immortal soul myth, Satan is now attempting to get man to commit that same unpardonable sin! Satan's eventual fate is torment day and night forever in hell. On the other hand, the angels which he drew into the rebellion can be forgiven.

Interesting, I have never heard that before.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I cannot lose my salvation per John 3:16, "...God loves, whoever trusts Him shall never perish."

The devil, on the other hand, can only make nonbinding contracts. Had a cousin with a large tattoo spreading across his back to Satan. He told my dad he couldn't trust Christ because he'd made a blood covenant with Satan. My dad replied that contracts under false pretenses with liars are nonbinding.

Still, he thought he couldn't be saved because he loved to eat Devil Dog brand chocolate snacks. Dad loves 'em, too.

Oh, well. Satanists love to write things backwards. "Devil Dog" reverses to "God Lived." My cousin trusted Christ that same night!
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
I cannot lose my salvation per John 3:16, "...God loves, whoever trusts Him shall never perish."

The devil, on the other hand, can only make nonbinding contracts. Had a cousin with a large tattoo spreading across his back to Satan. He told my dad he couldn't trust Christ because he'd made a blood covenant with Satan. My dad replied that contracts under false pretenses with liars are nonbinding.

Still, he thought he couldn't be saved because he loved to eat Devil Dog brand chocolate snacks. Dad loves 'em, too.

Oh, well. Satanists love to write things backwards. "Devil Dog" reverses to "God Lived." My cousin trusted Christ that same night!

Satanists do not like to write things backwards, I don't think you would understand the first thing about my religion.

I really don't see any more need for this topic, really. I was st It might as well be locked. I started this topic at five in the morning almost half a year ago...
 
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