How Can One Love Two Religions

[Sha'irullah]

For example, I asked Mr. Archer some questions a few threads back, and came to the conclusion he is about 90% Muslim, with some compassion or sensitivity to some Hindu ideas, but not many.

90% Muslim? Ah come on dude . Ain't nobody that much of a Muslim, not even Sunni Muslims are that far up the ratio. I used the percentage 51% once actually which is perhaps quite a bit accurate. I don't hold compassion or sensitivity for a religious view. I hold a mutual agreement with it. Meaning I have actual belief in various Dharmic concepts. I tried pure Sanatana Dharma for whole year actually, I tried diving into it and understanding various teachings and theologies. I have to say that it was a very pleasant experience.

 

[Vinayaka]

90% Muslim? Ah come on dude . Ain't nobody that much of a Muslim, not even Sunni Muslims are that far up the ratio. I used the percentage 51% once actually which is perhaps quite a bit accurate. I don't hold compassion or sensitivity for a religious view. I hold a mutual agreement with it. Meaning I have actual belief in various Dharmic concepts. I tried pure Sanatana Dharma for whole year actually, I tried diving into it and understanding various teachings and theologies. I have to say that it was a very pleasant experience.

I meant no offense, just pointing out how different perspectives are. From what I asked you, and I can't even remember what it is now, it didn't seem very dharmic to me. Of course you are entitled to an entirely different opinion. Another faith on here argues about their definitions all the time. You have to remember that my own personal POV is that of a very traditional Hindu, not a universalist leaning one. Earlier I think before you joined, I made this thread on it. Have a look. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/131243-what-makes-hindu-hindu.html

 

[Sha'irullah]

I meant no offense, just pointing out how different perspectives are. From what I asked you, and I can't even remember what it is now, it didn't seem very dharmic to me. Of course you are entitled to an entirely different opinion. Another faith on here argues about their definitions all the time. You have to remember that my own personal POV is that of a very traditional Hindu, not a universalist leaning one. Earlier I think before you joined, I made this thread on it. Have a look. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/131243-what-makes-hindu-hindu.html

I took no offense by your words. I just thought you under acknowledged my Dharmacism a bit, no worries.
Some of the requirement you made in your thread are actually cultural and I would not regard them as religious. I have known Hindus and a lot of them blur the lines between being Indian and being Hindu. No offense though but that is what I am gathering.

 

[Vinayaka]

I took no offense by your words. I just thought you under acknowledged my Dharmacism a bit, no worries.
Some of the requirement you made in your thread are actually cultural and I would not regard them as religious. I have known Hindus and a lot of them blur the lines between being Indian and being Hindu. No offense though but that is what I am gathering.

Which ones do you views cultural? (I took another look, and they all seemed pretty Hindu to me. Further along in the thread more were added.) I'd also be interested in which beliefs you hold as being dharmic.

This 'defining' game has been around a long time. The reason I take it seriously at all is it's a method of diluting Hinduism. An example is the liberalisation of Hinduism to include Christ. It's actually a tactic, a well thought out tactic, related to conversion. Something like the slow conversion ... let's feed them first, then slowly we can introduce this and that.

I'm not accusing you of this at all. I'm more saying what I'm saying so somebody seeking out our faiths has no misunderstanding, or at least different POVs. And my POV is that Islam and Hinduism have very very little in common.

I am reminded of a Father Brown, a Christian minister in Sri Lanka, famous for saying "They may never be good Catholics, but they also will never be good Hindus."

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Similarly, someone can call himself whatever religion they want to. That won't change what they actually believe.

I am not sure what you mean though. When people choose a religion, then their set of beliefs is effected by their religion, doesn't it?
I guess you are saying "calling one a religion" is different from actually believing it, which I agree for majority of people that's the case.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am not sure what you mean though. When people choose a religion, then their set of beliefs is effected by their religion, doesn't it?
I guess you are saying "calling one a religion" is different from actually believing it, which I agree for majority of people that's the case.

Yes, that is what I am saying. For example, if my family was in a third world country, and we were starving, and a missionary offered me food in exchange for conversion, I'd 'convert' PDQ, Of course it wouldn't be a real conversion.

In other cases, it's cool,so a person will put on a cross, or a bindi, and say, "Oh, now I'm a Christian, or Now I'm a Hindu. Julia Roberts, who supposedly 'converted' to Hinduism, after an interview on it, said, "Now I need to go have a big steak to celebrate" a very non-Hindu thing to do. Hindus like me rolled our eyes, and kept cooking the vegetarian meal. So actions speak louder than words.

 

[Maya3]

I have absolutely no opinion. These are not my scriptures, so why would I have an opinion? If someone wants to interpret a scripture in whatever they want to, that's their business. I don't go looking for similarities or for differences, because to me, it makes no difference. I just am what I am. Similarly, someone can call himself whatever religion they want to. That won't change what they actually believe.

Why can´t you have an opinion on something that is another scripture than yours?

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

Why can´t you have an opinion on something that is another scripture than yours?

Maya

Yes, you could ... provided you've read it. I can't have an opinion on a movie I've never seen. I suppose I could have a second-hand opinion, if someone else told me about that movie.

But I've never read the Bible of the Koran. Therefore I have no opinion.

 

[Maya3]

Yes, you could ... provided you've read it. I can't have an opinion on a movie I've never seen. I suppose I could have a second-hand opinion, if someone else told me about that movie.

But I've never read the Bible of the Koran. Therefore I have no opinion.

Ok I understand that. But I thought she was referring to a specific quote from the Bible that she posted.


Maya

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ok I understand that. But I thought she was referring to a specific quote from the Bible that she posted.


Maya

Yes, that was what I was asking for. the whole story of it is a few verses. Anyways you are welcome to say your view on that.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, I have heard the argument presented that the Bible is actually pro-reincarnation, and that selected verses seem to say that, even that reicarnation was written out of the Bible from by some ancient guys. I've never explored this personally, but lets just say, I've been around enough have heard it.

But I think its clear this is a fringe belief, not a mainstream Christian belief. I'm guessing 2% or less of people claiming to be Christian believe in reincarnation, or will even go as far as 'maybe'.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Which ones do you views cultural? (I took another look, and they all seemed pretty Hindu to me. Further along in the thread more were added.) I'd also be interested in which beliefs you hold as being dharmic.

This 'defining' game has been around a long time. The reason I take it seriously at all is it's a method of diluting Hinduism. An example is the liberalisation of Hinduism to include Christ. It's actually a tactic, a well thought out tactic, related to conversion. Something like the slow conversion ... let's feed them first, then slowly we can introduce this and that.

I'm not accusing you of this at all. I'm more saying what I'm saying so somebody seeking out our faiths has no misunderstanding, or at least different POVs. And my POV is that Islam and Hinduism have very very little in common.

I am reminded of a Father Brown, a Christian minister in Sri Lanka, famous for saying "They may never be good Catholics, but they also will never be good Hindus."

As for cultural aspects I am referring to things such as visiting temples or having a Hindu name, pilgrimage and socialising with Hindu friends. Such things cannot be done in a society outside of India. It like when I recited my Shahadah and became a Muslim somehow it was expected of me to have a "Muslim" name (Arabic name) and speak Arabic. I find such things useless to religion.

As for what I hold that I at least consider Dharmic are pananetheism, Ishta devata, karma, dharma, samsara and the unity of god. Also I have indeed read the Gita, Khandogya Upanishad, Vedas and Siva Purana (my favorite). I wouldn't consider myself ignorant on Sanatana Dharma

 

[Vinayaka]

As for cultural aspects I am referring to things such as visiting temples or having a Hindu name, pilgrimage and socialising with Hindu friends.

As for what I hold that I at least consider Dharmic are pananetheism, Ishta devata, karma, dharma, samsara and the unity of god. Also I have indeed read the Gita, Khandogya Upanishad, Vedas and Siva Purana (my favorite). I wouldn't consider myself ignorant on Sanatana Dharma

I do all of those things and I live in Canada. I pilgrimage here, have a Hindu name, (as do 99.9% of Hindus in India.) All my close friends are Hindu.

The rest is all philosophy, and no practice. And who exactly would be your ishta devata if you're a Muslim, and firmly against idol worship? I wouldn't say you're ignorant, but being a Hindu means a lot more (at least to me) that understanding or believing in some of the philosophy, or having read some scripture.

How does karma happen outside of reincarnation. I do understand dharma could be applied, just as duty of a Muslim. Not quite the same idea, but reasonably close.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I do all of those things and I live in Canada. I pilgrimage here, have a Hindu name, (as do 99.9% of Hindus in India.) All my close friends are Hindu.

The rest is all philosophy, and no practice. And who exactly would be your ishta devata if you're a Muslim, and firmly against idol worship? I wouldn't say you're ignorant, but being a Hindu means a lot more (at least to me) that understanding or believing in some of the philosophy, or having read some scripture.

How does karma happen outside of reincarnation. I do understand dharma could be applied, just as duty of a Muslim. Not quite the same idea, but reasonably close.

You do realize that I am no avid Muslim right? Agreeing with the certain parts of the Quran does not make one a Muslim and agreeing with various Hindu concepts does not make me a Hindu. I claim to have a understanding of both sides but I do not fully abide or identify by either. Being a deist I do not view Islam and Hinduism as separate organizations. A Christian has the Bible and a Muslim has the Quran and a Vaishnav has the Gita (primarily) while a Deist has all the above but does not have to abide by any. I have quite a lot of spiritual freedom

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, just claiming any belief affiliated with Hinduism could well make you apostate (if there is such a thing in Islam) in some Islamic circles, I'm sure. Where we are disagreeing is on the 51-49 split you gave yourself. I put it more at 90-10. Its still a split either way.

In the 5 beliefs you stated, ishta is clearly Smartha. Karma, dharma, and samsara, are pretty general to all Hindus in some way, and I have no idea what you mean by unity of god. Clearly Hindus and Muslims have differing concepts on God. For one , Islam holds to an exclusive monotheism, and Hindus have inclusive monotheism. By the way, I haven't read any of those books. My path isn't very scriptural. its far more in practises and temple worship. I'm much more of a bhaktar than a scholar.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Yes, just claiming any belief affiliated with Hinduism could well make you apostate (if there is such a thing in Islam) in some Islamic circles, I'm sure. Where we are disagreeing is on the 51-49 split you gave yourself. I put it more at 90-10. Its still a split either way.

In the 5 beliefs you stated, ishta is clearly Smartha. Karma, dharma, and samsara, are pretty general to all Hindus in some way, and I have no idea what you mean by unity of god. Clearly Hindus and Muslims have differing concepts on God. For one , Islam holds to an exclusive monotheism, and Hindus have inclusive monotheism. By the way, I haven't read any of those books. My path isn't very scriptural. its far more in practises and temple worship. I'm much more of a bhaktar than a scholar.

Oh don't get me wrong, I have many arguments against Muslims and am highly heterodox if you look at me as a Muslim.
Not all Muslims are exclusive monotheist by the way. Many Muslim in Indonesia and India have an inclusive view although it does have limitations. One such proponent of this is the infamous Zakir Naik. When I say unity of god I am also referring to inclusive monotheism by the way.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not all Muslims are exclusive monotheist by the way.

Never heard of that. Can you point me to a resource? Every little bit I've ever read says , 'There is no God but Allah." in some very strong way.

Even the idea that scripture is absolutely essential is an Abrahamic view. Many if not most of us in SD put a lot more empahisis on knowledge gained from personal experience. Of course converts often retain that idea too. Hence the BG gets a lot of importance in some areas.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Never heard of that. Can you point me to a resource? Every little bit I've ever read says , 'There is no God but Allah." in some very strong way.

Even the idea that scripture is absolutely essential is an Abrahamic view. Many if not most of us in SD put a lot more empahisis on knowledge gained from personal experience. Of course converts often retain that idea too. Hence the BG gets a lot of importance in some areas.

Now when I say inclusive monotheism understand it is very limited. Muslims assert that avatars like Krishna are actually prophets and that Hindus corrupted their teachings. Varying Muslims also claim that Hindus really worship Allah but follow corrupt teachings and that Allah (the literal name) was used throughout history. We of course no this is not true since Allah is a new word invented in Arabic.
Muslims have never faced much interreligious relations in the past so this is very new for them. But Muslims do not claim that other gods are demons as Christians do since Islamic spiritualism is very different.
Some examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAoVWv5pWgg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRw25KZG0vE

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm sorry. I just can't take that guy seriously at all. I'm sure you can relate to that. Almost anyone can.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm sorry. I just can't take that guy seriously at all. I'm sure you can relate to that. Almost anyone can.

Well then me and you are in the same boat. Zakir Naik is the reason I joined and left Islam as ironic as that sounds . His views and statements have very often pushed forth a progressive agenda that improves upon previous methods of proselytization. But regardless he represents a very fractured minority of Muslims.