How can some Americans support a traitor for a President?

[F1fan]

The point is that mentally healthy people dont commit mass violence.

Then should anyone who wants to buy and own a gun have to get a mental health screening before they are allowed to have it? Would you agree to that?

 

[Unfettered]

@Unfettered I mistakenly replied to the wrong post. It happens. This response is to you.

In the meantime, can you accept that what evidence is available was presented to a grand jury, which returned a True Indictment on the following:

one count of conspiracy to defraud the United States​

one count of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding ​

one count of obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding​

one count of conspiracy against rights​

Can you also accept that the grand jury, guided by the legal minds available to them about what those charges entail and how the evidence applies, might be better informed about the matter than you are?

And can you also accept that those charges, if true, should be considered more serious in a sitting President (and he was a sitting President at the time) than in many other people, given the responsibilities of his office and the oath that he took, and given the nature of the "official proceeding" in question?

I do accept that evidence was presented to a grand jury, who indicted him. I do agree that the grand jury who indicted him might be better informed about the matter than me; in fact, it is certain that they are better informed, at this point.

I do not agree that the verdict of one's guilt, relative to a charge, should be influenced by any consideration that would deprive the defendant of equal protection under the laws, even if such a provision were written into the law. Nor do I agree that the verdict of one's guilt should be influenced by considerations beyond those written in the law.

Apart from that, if X is not lawful for a sitting president to do, and a sitting president has done X, I do agree that it is just to hold the president accountable to the law.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So here's another, showing homicide and suicide rates, in the richest countries. The USA is very much an outlier. It should also be noted that the USA has more guns per 100 people than any of those other countries.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes this is a good illustration of left rhetoric damaging society.

Of course. There was no violence before guns after all, and today nobody is ever beaten, stabbed, strangled, run down...

Are you under the impression that other countries don't also have a lot of citizens suffering from mental health issues?
How come the rest of us don't have anywhere near as many mass shootings as the US does, if it's just all about "mental health?"
I'll give you a hint: It's the guns!

 

[1137]

Are you under the impression that other countries don't also have a lot of citizens suffering from mental health issues?
How come the rest of us don't have anywhere near as many mass shootings as the US does, if it's just all about "mental health?"
I'll give you a hint: It's the guns!

You arent making the point you think you are. Argue that mentally healthy people murder others or don't waste our time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You arent making the point you think you are.

The fact that you avoided answering my questions and didn't address anything I said demonstrates otherwise, I think.

Argue that mentally healthy people murder others or don't waste our time.

I already wasted my time asking questions that you didn't answer.

 

[metis]

What is bizarre about it?

Because it is so utterly hypocritical, especially in light of the fact that numerous present and former Pubs basically compare the Pubs to a nasty dumpster fire.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You arent making the point you think you are. Argue that mentally healthy people murder others or don't waste our time.

Even mentally healthy people are notoriously prone for emotional outbursts, some of them more extreme such as "going postal."

 

[1137]

Even mentally healthy people are notoriously prone for emotional outbursts, some of them more extreme such as "going postal."

What a strange view of mental health.

 

[1137]

The fact that you avoided answering my questions and didn't address anything I said demonstrates otherwise, I think.

I already wasted my time asking questions that you didn't answer.

What question? You refuse to acknowledge that mental illness is the cause not guns, thus buying into political nonsense and doing more harm than good.

 

[1137]

Because it is so utterly hypocritical, especially in light of the fact that numerous present and former Pubs basically compare the Pubs to a nasty dumpster fire.

... what?

 

[Little Dragon]

For that is what Trump is, if John Kelly is not lying. It is difficult to believe that a former general will be lying about this. Its hard to call anyone who holds the views Trump has as anything but a traitor.

Oh he's a traitor, twice at least, once to the constitution, with all that Jan 5th nonsense and once to the nation, for being Vladimir Putin's consistently bestest boy.

 

[anna.]

If we're talking about Donald Trump, I don't believe he has done anything traitorous. I think he's done some foolish and juvenile things, but not traitorous.

Trump allegedly discussed US nuclear subs with foreign national after leaving White House: Sources

Months after leaving office, former President Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive info about U.S. nuclear subs with an Australian billionaire, say sources.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What a strange view of mental health.

Anger, even rage, is a perfectly normal part of human psychology.

 

[Unfettered]

Trump allegedly discussed US nuclear subs with foreign national after leaving White House: Sources

Months after leaving office, former President Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive info about U.S. nuclear subs with an Australian billionaire, say sources.

abcnews.go.com

It's "alleged"; "supposed." Did it happen? Also, do you know that the act itself is treason? Asking, since you seem to be asserting.

 

[anna.]

It's "alleged"; "supposed." Did it happen? Also, do you know that the act itself is treason? Asking, since you seem to be asserting.

Prosecutors and the FBI interviewed him twice, I'm fairly confident they have the receipts.

And no, not treasonous by the Constitutional definition, which clearly defines the parameters. The closest he could come to that would be if it was proved there was intent to overthrow the government, and we haven't gotten to that trial yet, and plus they only charged him with high crimes and misdemeanors.

 

[1137]

Anger, even rage, is a perfectly normal part of human psychology.

Of course. These don't equate to murderous action.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Of course. These don't equate to murderous action.

You seem to be trying to assert that "mental illness" is the only motive for murder. Not money, not property, not jealousy, not revenge -- not even love (which tragically is all too often a very real motive).

If that's what you believe, I believe you are woefully uninformed.

 

[Unfettered]

Prosecutors and the FBI interviewed him twice, I'm fairly confident they have the receipts.

And no, not treasonous by the Constitutional definition, which clearly defines the parameters. The closest he could come to that would be if it was proved there was intent to overthrow the government, and we haven't gotten to that trial yet, and plus they only charged him with high crimes and misdemeanors.

Thank you. So charged for disclosing the sub info, but not convicted at this point. And not treason. Didn't think there was any way it was treason; definition is very narrow.

Either way, Mr. Trump's lack of discipline is one of the reasons I couldn't vote for him. He's too predictably unpredictable; not the kind of person you want with sensitive information and such.

 

[anna.]

Thank you. So charged for disclosing the sub info, but not convicted at this point.

Never said otherwise. If you’ve been following following along, you should have a general idea of the court timeline.

And not treason. Didn't think there was any way it was treason; definition is very narrow.
Either way, Mr. Trump's lack of discipline is one of the reasons I couldn't vote for him. He's too predictably unpredictable; not the kind of person you want with sensitive information and such.

I know that. I could’ve been clearer, I wanted to give an example of the damage he’s done.

I think it’s too generous of a spin to distill everything he‘s done criminally into a simple “lack of discipline.“ It’s so much worse than that.