How can theists/atheists justify racism?

[Vee]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God. Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.
Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

 

[JJ50]

There is no justification for racism, it is totally unacceptable. We are all the same under the skin, a white skin is no better than one of colour. I can never understand why some idiots claim to be proud to be white, yet are more than happy to develop a tanned skin!

 

[LiveBetterLife]

Evolution implies that we are all different based upon our DNA which often involves correlations with shared ancestry which, in turn, has its historical origins based upon geography. It easily explains why Caucasian European Empires comfortably colonized the entire world; it also explains why most NBA players or why all NFL cornerbacks are black.

Racism, on a more general level, has been mostly turned into something detached from its most basic etymological definition and rendered something monstrous due to the ways in which differences based on race have been exploited throughout history and the implications that this has derived from more recent history (last 200 years).

There's nothing wrong with identifying differences or even identifying advantages/disadvantages; the trick is to find a way not to feel threatened by them and to avoid exploiting them in a way that results in a dehumanization or even mild degradation.

Personally, I think most of the world has a twisted understanding of race and racism.

 

[bobhikes]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God. Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.
Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

Racism is determined by the people who see it. The person being called a racist doesn't believe it is true. Their anger is justified in their mind or you are seeing things that really aren't there. Personally I wish people would stop calling it racism (which is a broad and untrue statement) and start identifying the problem directly. Statement's like you have a problem with Mexican people, African people or Indian people. Force the people to justify why they have a problem with said people rather than have them justify they are not racist (which no one can be, there is only the human race).

 

[Wasp]

It's just a sentiment, like feminism.

 

[Darkforbid]

Racism has become a catch all way of dismissing all cultural and national differences, without having to deal any underlying argument pointing the good or bad in the said differences

Such as 'we're all the same' dismisses human individually comparing humanity to a flock of cloned sheep

 

[ChristineM]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God. Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.
Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

There is no justification for racism.

However, it is my view racism stems from xenophobia and nationalism.

In older times empire (and before, the bible is rife with this) demanded that subjugated peoples are inferior.

An exampe of modern racism, Brexit. Immediately after the vote racist crime in the UK rose by over 400%. It has reduced considerably since the vote but is still far higher than previous to the vote.

 

[Altfish]

There is no justification for racism.

However, it is my view racism stems from xenophobia and nationalism.

In older times empire (and before, the bible is rife with this) demanded that subjugated peoples are inferior.

An exampe of modern racism, Brexit. Immediately after the vote racist crime in the UK rose by over 400%. It has reduced considerably since the vote but is still far higher than previous to the vote.

This

 

[Polymath257]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God. Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.
Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

I will only answer historically since it is not my actual belief system.

Theists have tended to support racism by stating that God has judged some people less worthy (curse of Ham, for example). The judgement of God, then, serves as justification for people to look down on others. This is in a system where people are 'more worthy' or 'less worthy' based on family, not just personal actions.

Atheists, on the other hand, have tended to justify racism by focusing on the differences between the races and declaring those differences to be either significant in themselves or markers of value. So, it is common among racist atheists to see other races designated as separate species and thereby less deserving of respect or value.

 

[RabbiO]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God

Really?

 

[Audie]

I will only answer historically since it is not my actual belief system.

Theists have tended to support racism by stating that God has judged some people less worthy (curse of Ham, for example). The judgement of God, then, serves as justification for people to look down on others. This is in a system where people are 'more worthy' or 'less worthy' based on family, not just personal actions.

Atheists, on the other hand, have tended to justify racism by focusing on the differences between the races and declaring those differences to be either significant in themselves or markers of value. So, it is common among racist atheists to see other races designated as separate species and thereby less deserving of respect or value.

Atheists have tended to do that? I dont think so.
You care to rephrase for more truth and less calumny?

Too, I expect that lo and many a christian who is
enlightened enough to accept evolution has
gotten caught up in the same thing you describe
as the province of (all) atheists.

Oh, and separate species? Who where?
Never even heard that.

 

[Audie]

There is no justification for racism.

However, it is my view racism stems from xenophobia and nationalism.

In older times empire (and before, the bible is rife with this) demanded that subjugated peoples are inferior.

An exampe of modern racism, Brexit. Immediately after the vote racist crime in the UK rose by over 400%. It has reduced considerably since the vote but is still far higher than previous to the vote.

Just call it tribalism. them big latin words are not needed.

 

[Audie]

It's just a sentiment, like feminism.

Now, I would not wish it on man-kind for you to
be one, but still, it would be tres amusant to see
how your pov would change if you got plunked
into a womans body.

Western society, here and now, not too bad. I
dont want to be a man, BUT-there is a lot wrong
in today's society.

Far better for your lesson to be at least a hundred
years ago if it is a western country.
Far better, though, for it to be one where they really
knew/ know how to treat women like dogs.

 

[Polymath257]

Atheists have tended to do that? I dont think so.
You care to rephrase for more truth and less calumny?

I was limiting myself to the racists ones of each category.

Too, I expect that lo and many a christian who is
enlightened enough to accept evolution has
gotten caught up in the same thing you describe
as the province of (all) atheists.

Oh, and separate species? Who where?
Never even heard that.

It was an unfortunately common debate in the 1800's concerning whether blacks were the same species as whites or not. This debate was actually fueled, in part, by evolutionary theory.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God.

Some theists believe that. Not all.

Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.

Some atheists believe that. Not all.

Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

Similar religious arguments have been made against class structures, too. There was a popular slogan among the Levellers, an English religious/political group that wanted a classless society: "when Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"

That being said, there are plenty of stories in the Old Testament of "God's chosen people" going out and slaughtering other tribes/races. It's pretty easy to interpret the Bible to see racial division and conflict as a given.

It's also been popular throughtout history for religion to be used as a proxy for race. War between Christians was discouraged, but war by Christians against non-Christians was fine. It just happened that after all the various European Pagan societies were converted (or slaughtered for refusing to convert), for centurues upon centuries, it was generally the case that "Christendom" generally equalled "white people," while non-white people tended to be non-Christian... and therefore acceptable to discriminate against, enslave, plunder, etc.

 

[Audie]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God. Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.
Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

Able and Cain, they say, came from the same ancestors,
but they like, diverged.
The bible is full of such. "Chosen people".
Other peoples to be wiped from the face of
the earth.
Ye bible delivers mixed messages, at best.

For those who at least skipped that particular
source for racism, there is this, available
as much for the devout and the atheist-

First, the gut instinct for tribalism.
Second, observations.
IF, say, you notice as one will in the USA
that black people are way overrepresented
in crime stats, that areas of cities where
they are dominant tend not to be exactly
safe, that on average they do badly in
any sort of academic setting...what is one
to think?
Seriously, these things and more are true,
it does not help to pretend otherwise.

What comes next is the important part-

What does it mean?

Are they like that by nature, or what?

Nothing unusual about people doing
false correlations. Black=bad behaviour,
say.

Now, personally, I see it as a societal
problem not a racial one.

Meanwhile, call it racism if you care to;
I dont care. BUT, if I were to encounter
a black man under certain circumstances,
it would be far more alarming to me than
if it were, say, an Indian or Frenchman.

And that is not like "for no reason"

Intellectually, I accept without reservation
the equality of all mankind. Gut level,
up close and personal, I dont, and neither
does anyone else.

 

[Darkforbid]

There is no justification for racism.

However, it is my view racism stems from xenophobia and nationalism.

In older times empire (and before, the bible is rife with this) demanded that subjugated peoples are inferior.

An exampe of modern racism, Brexit. Immediately after the vote racist crime in the UK rose by over 400%. It has reduced considerably since the vote but is still far higher than previous to the vote.

This

Case in point most people who support remaining in the EU, reduce all counter-argument to racism

 

[Audie]

I was limiting myself to the racists ones of each category.



It was an unfortunately common debate in the 1800's concerning whether blacks were the same species as whites or not. This debate was actually fueled, in part, by evolutionary theory.

Figured you meant a restricted subset but you did
not say it that way.

1800s. Ok, I knew about that.

Atheists, on the other hand, have tended to justify racism

Your way of putting it, "have tended" makes it
both past and present.

 

[ChristineM]

Case in point most people who support remaining in the EU, reduce all counter-argument to racism

All?

I assume you only cherry picked my post then fed it through narrow blinkers to come up with that statement.

FYI, try googling "racism since brexit", you may learn something

 

[Laika]

Theists believe all humans are descendants of the first couple, created by God. Atheists believe all life evolved from a common ancestor that appeared millions of years ago and evolved into different life forms, including ours.
Despite our many differences, theists and atheists both believe we have common ancestors. So, if we both believe we come from the same DNA pool, how can anyone justify racism? How ca we see other human beings as inferior, less deserving or less worthy?

I’m going to distinguish the more everyday racial prejudice from the more elaborate intellectual and “academic” justifications for racial superiority or inferiority as it may help to try to get inside the mind of a racist and how these views were once widely held but have since fallen out of favour.

The belief that we are all part of the same species has not always been accepted. In 1950, after the end of Nazism and World War II, the United Nations published a series of statements under the title of “the race question” which attempted to set out the scientific arguments against racism , including the belief in common origins.

However, this was a response to the “scientific racism” of the 19th and early 20th centuries which lent views of racial superiority scientific credibility. (Wikipedia says scientific racism even dates back as far as the 16th century.) These are now generally regarded as pseudo-scientific, although controversy continues on the political implications of certain subjects, such as studying possible relationships between race and intelligence and studying relationships between biology and social behaviour or “socio-biology”. These are all part of similar disputes that developed out of the eugenics movement, now largely discredited due to its use by the Nazis.

Whilst we today still believe race determined physical differences within the human species (skin colour, eye colour, hair type, etc), the Nazis and other racists took this further to believe that race accounted for moral, psychological and spiritual differences between racial groups as a justification for legal and political inequality. The view that we are all part of the human race entails a spiritual equality in that we are all capable and deserving of freedom and dignity, whereas the more intellectual racists views reject this position.

The Nazis conception of race didn’t simply derive from pseudo-scientific sources, but included religious elements as well. This included attempts at incorporating Nazi ideology into Christianity as “german christians movement” such as “positive christianity”, the more pagan “german faith movement” and the mysticism of esoteric nazism.

Although Nazis were strongly anti-intellectual (believing in the importance of action and the power of the spoken word over the written one), they had their share of Nazi intellectuals willing to elaborate a racist ideology. So you had Alfred Rosenberg publish “the myth of the twentieth century” in 1930 as probably the second most important volume in nazi ideology behind Hitler’s Mein Kamphf. These intellectual currents also worked their way in to ongoing cultural and scientific disputes such as the Nazis attack on “degenerate art” and controversies over Einstein's theory of relativity, each justified as an attack on the “jewish” spirit undermining the spiritual and cultural values of the aryan race. Sometimes this meant appropriating existing ideas to serve as justification for their ideology, such as Fredrich Nietzsche s concept of the superman (despite the fact Nietzsche was not an anti-semite).

The more common racial prejudices have their ancestry in these often more intellectual attempts to rationalise racism making their way in to the mass media and popular culture. An example might be the film “The Birth of a Nation” (1915) which presents a revisionist view of the history of the confederacy as a “lost cause” and presented the klu klux klan in a heroic light.

Although what I've said so far refers mainly to white supremacy, there have been attempts to justify black supremacy and other races as well, each having their effect on politics and history.

So there is a wealth of ideas appealing to both scientific and religious authority to justify racism if someone is so inclined. But since the Second World War, these have been generally buried and don’t generally make it in to wider consumption. The current rebellion against perceived “political correctness” has regrettably brought some of these ideas back out in the open and in circulation amongst the wider public and made racist attitudes much less marginalised and more visible as a result.