How can this be a religion?

[lunakilo]

I am Danish.
I grew up hearing stories about the old gods.
Especially the ones about Tor and his travels, they have always been popular.

When I was a child I remember once being in a big thunderstorm.
It was scary.
My mother lifted me up an placed me on her knee and then started telling me a strory about a guy named Tor whom people in the old days believed to be the one who made the thunder. He hunted giants and had this magic hammer called Mjølner.
I knew I was just a story but somehow the storm didn't seem so frightening after that, it wasn't like I was a giant so the guy with the hammer wasn't aiming for me

They stories are also taught in school.
Recently my daughter came home from school at said to me "today in christianity we heard the story about Tors travels to Utgard-Loki"
(Utgard-Loki(?), I don't know his english name. But it is the story where Tors goats break down and he has to walk, he comes to this house where he drinks from the horn connected to the sea, fights age, lifts the Midgard Serpent, Loke has an eating competition with fire, Tjalfe races thought)
She the re-told the entire story to me and her little brother.

They are good stories and I love them, but that is all they have ever been to me; stories.
I find it difficult to understand how this can be a religion.

Can you explain this to me?

 

[LuisDantas]

I wish I could tell you my guess on the matter.

Maybe outside this DIR.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Today a lot of it is taken as mythological stories representing different things. It generally isn't taken literally in these days. For the most part, Asatru is about how you live, rather than if you believe in the Gods as literal beings or merely representations of Nature. It is a lot about heritage, and most Asatruar feel that Christianity is not part of our heritage, it being a religion that started in the East. So a lot of it is about bringing back the customs and traditions of our ancestors.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Turn enough things into metaphors and you can live your life believing just about any story.

 

[painted wolf]

That isn't a religion it's a story... like the story of Noah isn't Christianity or Judaism.

Religion is a set of practices as well as beliefs... myths can inform you about values and important figures in a culture, but they are not "the religion".

wa:do

ps.. the question is insulting IMHO... Hey, I heard a story growing up and (even though I know nothing about your actual religious practice) I think your religion doesn't deserve to be called one.

 

[lunakilo]

Thanks for answering.

I wrote the question the night before going on vacation, a vacation with limitid internet access.
Probably not the smartest thing to do

Today a lot of it is taken as mythological stories representing different things. It generally isn't taken literally in these days. For the most part, Asatru is about how you live, rather than if you believe in the Gods as literal beings or merely representations of Nature. t is a lot about heritage, and most Asatruar feel that Christianity is not part of our heritage, it being a religion that started in the East.

So are we talking parables?

As I said before, I like the stories. Some of them even have good points and teach you stuff.
They are stories a time that is no more.
They don't really reprecent a specific doctrine as I see it, you can read the stories as you want. That is one of the nice things about them, but it also means I have problems seeing them as a religion.

I So a lot of it is about bringing back the customs and traditions of our ancestors.

What customs and what traditions are we talking about?
Those guys had a lot of custums and traditions, some I like and som I don't...

 

[lunakilo]

ps.. the question is insulting IMHO... Hey, I heard a story growing up and (even though I know nothing about your actual religious practice) I think your religion doesn't deserve to be called one.

Well, I kind of consider these stories MINE.
They are part of MY heritage.

If people wan't to turn my heritage into a religion, I feel entitled to question them.

I sometimes feed the house elf on cristmas eve because it is tradition.
I consider the elder bush/tree to be very special. Traditionally it is a plant which is surrounded by much mystery and magic. Freya supposedly lived in it. You NEVER uproot a elder tree.
When I was 16 I went as an exchange student to Mexico for a year. Before I left my mother gave my a silver hammer (Mjølner, Tors hammer) as a necklace, for protection (I saw it as her wish for me to return to her safely).
... (I could go on)

The above are examples of what I consider part of my cultural heritage, but NOT my religion.

I will consider the question insulting if somone who consideres this a religion tells me they find it insulting and why, and not before.

 

[Otherright]

I am Danish.
I grew up hearing stories about the old gods.
Especially the ones about Tor and his travels, they have always been popular.

When I was a child I remember once being in a big thunderstorm.
It was scary.
My mother lifted me up an placed me on her knee and then started telling me a strory about a guy named Tor whom people in the old days believed to be the one who made the thunder. He hunted giants and had this magic hammer called Mjølner.
I knew I was just a story but somehow the storm didn't seem so frightening after that, it wasn't like I was a giant so the guy with the hammer wasn't aiming for me

They stories are also taught in school.
Recently my daughter came home from school at said to me "today in christianity we heard the story about Tors travels to Utgard-Loki"
(Utgard-Loki(?), I don't know his english name. But it is the story where Tors goats break down and he has to walk, he comes to this house where he drinks from the horn connected to the sea, fights age, lifts the Midgard Serpent, Loke has an eating competition with fire, Tjalfe races thought)
She the re-told the entire story to me and her little brother.

They are good stories and I love them, but that is all they have ever been to me; stories.
I find it difficult to understand how this can be a religion.

Can you explain this to me?

Nordic myths are an important part of your heritage. They are the story of your people. At one time, these stories were real to your people. Enjoy them, relish in them. They will give you a better understanding of your national and personal identity. But, yes, they are just stories.
If you can get something from them, such as a better sense of self, they will do you no harm at all.

 

[Otherright]

Well, I kind of consider these stories MINE.
They are part of MY heritage.

If people wan't to turn my heritage into a religion, I feel entitled to question them.

I sometimes feed the house elf on cristmas eve because it is tradition.
I consider the elder bush/tree to be very special. Traditionally it is a plant which is surrounded by much mystery and magic. Freya supposedly lived in it. You NEVER uproot a elder tree.
When I was 16 I went as an exchange student to Mexico for a year. Before I left my mother gave my a silver hammer (Mjølner, Tors hammer) as a necklace, for protection (I saw it as her wish for me to return to her safely).
... (I could go on)

The above are examples of what I consider part of my cultural heritage, but NOT my religion.

I will consider the question insulting if somone who consideres this a religion tells me they find it insulting and why, and not before.

As an American, we don't have a very strong sense of cultural heritage through legend. Being of Irish stock, I know the Ulster Cycle inside and out. Why? My ancestors are from Ulster. I find it fascinating that the places they lived and walked are directly identified in myth.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

So are we talking parables?

As I said before, I like the stories. Some of them even have good points and teach you stuff.
They are stories a time that is no more.
They don't really reprecent a specific doctrine as I see it, you can read the stories as you want. That is one of the nice things about them, but it also means I have problems seeing them as a religion.


What customs and what traditions are we talking about?
Those guys had a lot of custums and traditions, some I like and som I don't...

That's the wonderful thing about the reconstruction of this ancient religion, there is no doctrine. No dogma. No one to tell you the "right" way to worship.

In response to parables:

No, not like parables. There are some who view certain stories as symbolic representations of cosmic events. Namely, the creation story as the cosmic creation of the universe i.e. Odin and his brothers as natural forces (gravity, plate tectonics, etc) and Ymir as the material in space that makes up planets, stars, etc.

And it's about bringing back as many of the (mostly desirable) traditions as possible. You, being Danish, means that back time your ancestors were Pagans who believed in the Norse Gods. Christianity, the official religion of most European countries, is a religion native to the Middle East, and not Denmark (or the rest of the World for that matter). So the purpose of Asatru is to bring back the Pagan religion that is native to Denmark (And the rest of Scandinavia, as well as Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, England, etc). The most common traditional ceremonies being held today include the Blót and the Symbel.


Now obviously, (as far as I know) no one still believes that every thunderclap is Thor swinging his hammer. The religion has been largely modernized. And it all depends on the individual believer whether or not they believe in the actual existence of the Gods. Me personally, I believe that the Gods are all different facets of nature, and not necessarily spirits that watch over us.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

The fact that you feed the house elf, or that you don't uproot an elder tree, or that you wear a Mjolnir for protection means to me that the people still believe in those sorts of things, which are remnants of your lost ancestral religion. You may not take it seriously anymore, but your ancestors did, and the practitioners of Asatru are trying to bring that back.

I think the reason you have a hard time believing that it is a religion is due mostly to misinterpretation. We believe the stories are stories much like you do. The difference is that we believe in the Gods as well (whether they be real or archetypal), and use the same ceremonies to honour them.

Now me, I am not Scandinavian, so I don't practice Asatru per se. I have both English and Celtic heritage, so I practice Fyrnsidu, which is very similar to Asatru. The main difference is the name of the Gods, although there are some Celtic elements that I include and there are some slightly different beliefs regarding Fate, etc.

 

[Otherright]

The fact that you feed the house elf, or that you don't uproot an elder tree, or that you wear a Mjolnir for protection means to me that the people still believe in those sorts of things, which are remnants of your lost ancestral religion. You may not take it seriously anymore, but your ancestors did, and the practitioners of Asatru are trying to bring that back.

But why? And I don't mean any disrespect toward your ideas, but do you genuinely believe that Freya lives in the Elder Tree, or that a symbol of Mjolnir will bring protection? As a student of compared religion, I'm genuinely interested in your take on this.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

But why? And I don't mean any disrespect toward your ideas, but do you genuinely believe that Freya lives in the Elder Tree, or that a symbol of Mjolnir will bring protection? As a student of compared religion, I'm genuinely interested in your take on this.

Not necessarily, but I do believe that Elder Trees are associated with Freya and therefore should not be disrespected by uprooting them. And as for the Mjolnir, yes, I do believe that wearing a Mjolnir pendant will bring me protection. It's a symbol for protection offered by Thor. It's the same concept of a Christian wearing a Cross or crucifix.

 

[Otherright]

Not necessarily, but I do believe that Elder Trees are associated with Freya and therefore should not be disrespected by uprooting them. And as for the Mjolnir, yes, I do believe that wearing a Mjolnir pendant will bring me protection. It's a symbol for protection offered by Thor. It's the same concept of a Christian wearing a Cross or crucifix.

Is the prohibition of uprooting the tree in respect toward Freya or toward the tree, or both?

Does, in your opinion, the Mjolnir work for you?

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Is the prohibition of uprooting the tree in respect toward Freya or toward the tree, or both?

Does, in your opinion, the Mjolnir work for you?

It is respect toward both. Trees have always been important to me, because they live so long. They "witness" so many thing in history, so uprooting them is like uprooting history. And then also, if Freya is associated with Elder Trees, uprooting them would be majorly disrespectful towards her.

And so far, Mjolnir has worked for me I'd say. I haven't been in any trouble, and have barely ever been hurt. I'd like to think it's been working, but it also may just be coincidence. After all, who knows for sure? I'm more agnostic about the actual existence of Gods. I like to believe in them, but at the same time I don't have "faith", in the Christian sense.

 

[Otherright]

It is respect toward both. Trees have always been important to me, because they live so long. They "witness" so many thing in history, so uprooting them is like uprooting history. And then also, if Freya is associated with Elder Trees, uprooting them would be majorly disrespectful towards her.

And so far, Mjolnir has worked for me I'd say. I haven't been in any trouble, and have barely ever been hurt. I'd like to think it's been working, but it also may just be coincidence. After all, who knows for sure? I'm more agnostic about the actual existence of Gods. I like to believe in them, but at the same time I don't have "faith", in the Christian sense.

I think the most important thing about trees, from a spiritual perspective, is the fact that their growth pattern is indicated in the Fibonacci Sequence.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I think the most important thing about trees, from a spiritual perspective, is the fact that their growth pattern is indicated in the Fibonacci Sequence.

Well then that is your opinion.

 

[painted wolf]

Well, I kind of consider these stories MINE.
They are part of MY heritage.

If people wan't to turn my heritage into a religion, I feel entitled to question them.

That's fine... but part of your heritage is the religion of your ancestors as well as the stories and folk practices that evolved from it.

I think there is a very important distinction to be made between the religious practices of people and the oversimplification that comes with labeling stories and folk practices as the totality of that religion.

I sometimes feed the house elf on cristmas eve because it is tradition.
I consider the elder bush/tree to be very special. Traditionally it is a plant which is surrounded by much mystery and magic. Freya supposedly lived in it. You NEVER uproot a elder tree.
When I was 16 I went as an exchange student to Mexico for a year. Before I left my mother gave my a silver hammer (Mjølner, Tors hammer) as a necklace, for protection (I saw it as her wish for me to return to her safely).
... (I could go on)

The above are examples of what I consider part of my cultural heritage, but NOT my religion.

Because those are not part of your religious experience, They are folk traditions... but the religion that those traditions sprang from was not limited to the stories you hear and the traditions you practice today.

I will consider the question insulting if somone who consideres this a religion tells me they find it insulting and why, and not before.

I'm just giving you the point of view of someone who has had to answer this same question on their own religion. Take it or leave it.

But again, a religion isn't simply it's stories or it's folk traditions (these are important cultural aspects, yes) but it's the rituals, faith, and personal relationships of the followers with deity. The insult implied is that their faith is simply a bunch of silly stories. (Again, I have experience with sort of marginalization, whether it's intentional or not.)

Stories are means of transmitting cultural ideals and identity. Like I said you wouldn't say the story of Noah is the religion of Muslims, Christians and Jews.

Honestly, I think you could have re-worded your question better. :angel2:

wa:do

 

[Lind]

But why? And I don't mean any disrespect toward your ideas, but do you genuinely believe that Freya lives in the Elder Tree, or that a symbol of Mjolnir will bring protection? As a student of compared religion, I'm genuinely interested in your take on this.

She doesn't litteraly "live in it", like being in the tree physically, but since the tree represents her it has some of what I would call her 'energy' or 'powers' or what I would call her 'presence' in it, I guess.

I believe that wearing a Mjølner pendant allows me to get the 'support' of the god the symbol is connected to. The protection it brings is that it allows me to borrow some presence of the energy or power that Tor represents, as a form of protection.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Well, I kind of consider these stories MINE.
They are part of MY heritage.

If people wan't to turn my heritage into a religion, I feel entitled to question them.

You certainly are entitled. One of Odin's trademark sayings is: Do you want to know more?
But remember, we are not turning your traditions into a religion; your traditions come from a religion, and it has been handed down to you via this story.

I sometimes feed the house elf on cristmas eve because it is tradition.
I consider the elder bush/tree to be very special. Traditionally it is a plant which is surrounded by much mystery and magic. Freya supposedly lived in it. You NEVER uproot a elder tree.
When I was 16 I went as an exchange student to Mexico for a year. Before I left my mother gave my a silver hammer (Mjølner, Tors hammer) as a necklace, for protection (I saw it as her wish for me to return to her safely).
... (I could go on)

The above are examples of what I consider part of my cultural heritage, but NOT my religion.

I will consider the question insulting if somone who consideres this a religion tells me they find it insulting and why, and not before.

I don't find it insulting.