How can we be sure?

[George-ananda]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

For historical figures we have to judge the credibility of the sources. My thought is that we get a gist of the teachings of the master's you mentioned.

Actually, I learn more from modern spiritual teachers that I respect and revere. Why should we assume that the best stuff for us is only ancient? Can't more modern teachers speak top us more directly and at our level.

 

[halbhh]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

By actually doing what they say, and seeing how it works out.

Here's the key teaching we can do (or try) right at the start (even before much understanding or belief) from the most well known of all teachers:

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

It's radical, yes. Because "love" isn't merely 'be polite' or 'be casually friendly' only, but is something more, more risky.

More like a one-way door into a new life.

Yeah, you could theoretically think you could go through that door and then run back somehow later if you needed. That's what I thought, and the thought helped me have more bravery to leap into the unknown.

See, it's not like "select out someone and make them a friend over time", but something more....radical. It means to love that totally unique person next door, without even screening or selecting. Of course, you can't force them, but you can indeed actually be totally open and have your heart open, and it feels like....felt to me at least, as if I was taking quite a risk, as a 27 yr old introvert, as this wasn't a carefully chosen person, but literally the very next door people on both sides. Risky feeling.

It turned out far better than I imagined even possible, and I wondered if I had just gotten lucky. So I did it again after I moved, and it worked again, too.

 

[Vee]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

I'm more familiar with Jesus here. We weren't there and what was left after his death were written accounts registered by others. We can chose to believe or not but we can't go back in time to check so it's a matter of faith.
The coolest thing about Jesus was that he used a very simple language and he frequently utilized metaphors that people could relate to, to make his points and teach his lessons, so even if the recording aren't 100% to the letter, the message is correct.

 

[Revoltingest]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

Being "sure" is over-rated.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Being "sure" is over-rated.

Are you sure?

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you sure?

75%

 

[Nakosis]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

Can't be sure so I'd stop worrying about it. If you've found some benefit in what they said then that is what is important.

If you're going to teach, it should be based on your own experience. It's the only way you can be authentic. One shouldn't try teaching something that is beyond their own experience.

 

[halbhh]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

I left out a key thing.

Imagine you and I went to see a guru speak, and we both listened well. We'd hear their exact words.

For me, that would not mean the words are true, good, best....
Instead, they are only good words if they work in real life, to benefit us!

So I say: Test, test, and test again. Do what they say to do and find out what happens, many times.

=============
The Gospel of Mark is thought to be written about 35 years after Christ:
Gospel of Mark - Wikipedia

Someone listening to him that was 20 would be about 55, the surviving. Of the many thousands.

Over the years, many would have shared their accounts of the words over and over.... People would be able to notice what all the accounts agreed about.

See? It's just like how you gauge what is right from hundreds of witnesses: you see what the great majority agree on.

And then....there is this amazing reality

 

[BilliardsBall]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

Fortunately, we have fulfilled prophecies about Jesus and the nation of modern Israel to prove the Bible's veracity.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

If a spiritual person is a true seeker of truth, they will have the "Spirit of Truth" …"IN"....them.
The "Spirit of Truth" in Christianity is the Holy Spirit.

Gnostics understand the Holy Spirit to be the "Mother" ( the Female aspect of God the Father ),
and not as the bible has been mistranslated ( intentional or not ) by using the masculine pronoun "He" in reference.

The Holy Trinity is the Father, Mother, and Son (child)
Look "familiar" (family) ?

This is the spiritual "seed" that is planted in the "good soil" …..the "Word" of God.
As the person grows and experiences this world, so does the Spirit grow.

All along the way, that person CANNOT accept anything but what is true (Truth).
They will struggle with many things along the way, what is true, and what not.
But the truth will always prevail in their minds (spirit).

So whoever they "hear", they will know if they speak the Truth.

" I am the good shepherd; my sheep know my voice, I know them and they follow me " (John 10:27 )

"But they will not follow a stranger, but will flee from him, because they don't know the voice of strangers " (John 10:5)

 

[Windwalker]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

You can't. Is that important?

I've been told that everything of what has been attributed to the Buddha, for instance, can't possibly be from the same source. Same thing with Jesus. Stuff gets attributed to them, becomes part of the tradition, and then becomes the truth of that religion. "Jesus says", is another way to say, "This is our tradition". If you follow that tradition, then those are "Buddha's words", or Jesus's, etc.

So, it's not really relevant to the faith, if Jesus really said those things or not. Unless you are wanting to be an historian, and not looking through the lens of faith in that context. Faith and historical facts, have a very "open relationship", you could say.

 

[Revoltingest]

You can't. Is that important?

I've been told that everything of what has been attributed to the Buddha, for instance, can't possibly be from the same source. Same thing with Jesus. Stuff gets attributed to them, becomes part of the tradition, and then becomes the truth of that religion. "Jesus says", is another way to say, "This is our tradition". If you follow that tradition, then those are "Buddha's words", or Jesus's, etc.

So, it's not really relevant to the faith, if Jesus really said those things or not. Unless you are wanting to be an historian, and not looking through the lens of faith in that context. Faith and historical facts, have a very "open relationship", you could say.

I like the illusion of Bokononism.
Certainty & truth get the boot.

From Wikipedia.....
Bokononism (/ˈboʊkoʊnɒnˌɪzəm/) is a religion invented by Kurt Vonnegut and
practiced by many of the characters in his novel Cat's Cradle. Many of the
sacred texts of Bokononism were written in the form of calypsos.[1]

Bokononism is based on the concept of foma, which are defined as harmless
untruths. A foundation of Bokononism is that the religion, including its texts,
is formed entirely of lies; however, one who believes and adheres to these
lies will have peace of mind, and perhaps live a good life. The religion's bible,
The Books of Bokonon, begins: "Don't be a fool! Close this book at once!
It is nothing but foma! All of the true things that I am about to tell you are
shameless lies." The primary tenet of Bokononism is to "Live by the foma
that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy."

 

[Twilight Hue]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

We can't be sure. That's the reality.

It's why I'm so fond of the prefix, "Thus have I heard"...

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I like the illusion of Bokononism.
Certainty & truth get the boot.

From Wikipedia.....
Bokononism (/ˈboʊkoʊnɒnˌɪzəm/) is a religion invented by Kurt Vonnegut and
practiced by many of the characters in his novel Cat's Cradle. Many of the
sacred texts of Bokononism were written in the form of calypsos.[1]

Bokononism is based on the concept of foma, which are defined as harmless
untruths. A foundation of Bokononism is that the religion, including its texts,
is formed entirely of lies; however, one who believes and adheres to these
lies will have peace of mind, and perhaps live a good life. The religion's bible,
The Books of Bokonon, begins: "Don't be a fool! Close this book at once!
It is nothing but foma! All of the true things that I am about to tell you are
shameless lies." The primary tenet of Bokononism is to "Live by the foma
that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy."

The "brave and kind and healthy and happy",
along with the cowardly, and unkind, and unhealthy and miserable,
die.....every day.

 

[Revoltingest]

The "brave and kind and healthy and happy",

Sounds good.

along with the cowardly, and unkind, and unhealthy and miserable,
die.....every day.

Sounds bad.
Why would you choose that?

 

[halbhh]

You can't. Is that important?

I've been told that everything of what has been attributed to the Buddha, for instance, can't possibly be from the same source. Same thing with Jesus. Stuff gets attributed to them, becomes part of the tradition, and then becomes the truth of that religion. "Jesus says", is another way to say, "This is our tradition". If you follow that tradition, then those are "Buddha's words", or Jesus's, etc.

So, it's not really relevant to the faith, if Jesus really said those things or not. Unless you are wanting to be an historian, and not looking through the lens of faith in that context. Faith and historical facts, have a very "open relationship", you could say.

Actually there are some definite things we can learn(!) that don't require faith. See post 28 for a very brief indication.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Sounds good.

Sounds bad.
Why would you choose that?

They both meet the same end....don't they ?

 

[Revoltingest]

They both meet the same end....don't they ?

They're opposites.
This would be a good thing for you to investigate.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

They're opposites.
This would be a good thing for you to investigate.

Yes, I know....and I've been doing this for 50 years (this lifetime)
would you like to endeavor ?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I know....and I've been doing this for 50 years (this lifetime)
would you like to endeavor ?

Only 50 years, eh.
Yer just a beginner.
When you learn the difference between happy
& miserable, then you can preach at me.