How can YHWH be the FATHER?

[Dimi95]

Sure. One day we can toss our physical Bibles into the lake of fire.
That day is not here yet. And you believe Jesus is God incarnate because the Bible told you and God granted you revelation.

NO!
I know much more about Jesus before The Bible even existed.
Even from Non-Biblical Sources.
If we burn all the manuscripts in the world , we would still be able to compile that Bible by the Church Father letters.
What these people did in the 4th century , we can do it easily know as many times as it is needed.
That's what History says , not me.

The line of tradition by the Church Fathers is what granted me Revelation, not The Bible.

And this is where we end this discussions since you say that the Bible is Holy.
Only God is Holy.

 

[Feedmysheep]

NO!
I know much more about Jesus before The Bible even existed.
Even from Non-Biblical Sources.
If we burn all the manuscripts in the world , we would still be able to compile that Bible by the Church Father letters.
What these people did in the 4th century , we can do it easily know as many times as it is needed.
That's what History says , not me.

The line of tradition by the Church Fathers is what granted me Revelation, not The Bible.

And this is where we end this discussions since you say that the Bible is Holy.
Only God is Holy.

Could you list for me your two most significant things about Jesus of Nazareth that you
learned outside of the Bible?

I expect that you will not quote a church father as he himself quotes any part of the NT canonical books.

Don't come back with a quotation from a church father which is him referring to something in the 27 New Testament books.

 

[Dimi95]

Could you list for me your two most significant things about Jesus of Nazareth that you
learned outside of the Bible?

His existence as a Historical person and his crucifixition which is one of the two most important things that the story of the Gospels tell.
His crucifixition and his ressurection.
Polycarp mentions the ressurection

Polycarp 2:2
"Now He that raised Him from the dead will raise us also; if we
do His will and walk in His commandments and love the things which He
loved, abstaining from all unrighteousness, covetousness, love of
money, evil speaking, false witness; not rendering evil for evil or
railing for railing or blow for blow or cursing for cursing;"

I expect that you will not quote a church father as he himself quotes any part of the NT canonical books.

There were no NT canonical books in that time.They became 'books' much later since the original writings were lost/destroyed in the time when Christians were mostly persecuted.
By that line of tradition you , me and everyone else has the chance to read it and study it as such.
They gave their life so we can read and study it today.
That is called martyrdom.

Don't come back with a quotation from a church father which is him referring to something in the 27 New Testament books.

These books are defined as canonical in the 4 century and the earliest existing is the Codex Sinaticus.
They have never existed as Books before that.
Well , originally they existed as Biographies , but we son't have the original writings.
The only thing we have is how the stories were perserved and that is by line of tradition which means by passing it to the next generation.
Nothing as evidence has been found to suggest that they 'corrupted' the message within these 3 centuries.
Furthermore the Gospels were called Synoptic based on that analysis.
Because in literal translation 'Synoptic Gospels' means 'Good news that looked the same'.
They were called like that in the sense of Theology because the central Christian doctrine was not touched.

That is why we have footnotes in each translation of the Bible , so we might recognize the difference in words that changed meaning through time.
One word meant one thing in 1 century and meant another thing in second century.
That is because language evolves.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus is speaking to very religious ppl. They are telling Jesus that they follow the only "God". They even go on to insult Jesus. Jesus is telling them that they are following the wrong "God". Jesus is saying "Your Father, not my Father". If you read the whole chapter you will pick up on this. YHWH certainly is THE murderer from the beginning(Genesis)

Interesting statement… but no support.

 

[Feedmysheep]

His existence as a Historical person and his crucifixition which is one of the two most important things that the story of the Gospels tell.
His crucifixition and his ressurection.
Polycarp mentions the ressurection

Polycarp 2:2
"Now He that raised Him from the dead will raise us also; if we
do His will and walk in His commandments and love the things which He
loved, abstaining from all unrighteousness, covetousness, love of
money, evil speaking, false witness; not rendering evil for evil or
railing for railing or blow for blow or cursing for cursing;"

Polycarp's paragraph saying that not only Christ was raised but that we "us" also sounds very much like Ephesians and Colossians.

If therefore you were raised together with Christ, seek the things which are above,
where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. (Col. 3:1)

And raised us up together with Him and seated us together with Him in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, (Eph. 2:6)

Would you be bothered if I said "How do you know Polycarp was not repeating a concept he learned from Paul's letter?"

I don't know that much about Polycarp except he is reputed to be a pupil of the Apostle John.
And the rest of the paragraph sounds very much like First John.

And in this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this one; (1 John 2:3,4)

Which in turn John aquired from the words of Jesus -

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love;
even as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. (John 15:10)

Nothing in Polycarp's quote jumps out at me as being anything he could not have
learned from circulated writings of the apostles.

There were no NT canonical books in that time.They became 'books' much later since the original writings were lost/destroyed in the time when Christians were mostly persecuted.

That's why they furiously copied, recopied, and circulated them.
In a sense we thank God that the persecution forced them to do that.

By that line of tradition you , me and everyone else has the chance to read it and study it as such.
They gave their life so we can read and study it today.
That is called martyrdom.

Indeed. I thank God for their dedication in that as well.

These books are defined as canonical in the 4 century and the earliest existing is the Codex Sinaticus.
They have never existed as Books before that.
Well , originally they existed as Biographies , but we son't have the original writings.
The only thing we have is how the stories were perserved and that is by line of tradition which means by passing it to the next generation.
Nothing as evidence has been found to suggest that they 'corrupted' the message within these 3 centuries.

Textural criticism is a fascinating subject.
But I was expecting you to tell me two major aspects of the Person of Jesus - life and work, that some church father
originated completely apart from the circulated writings which eventually were recognized as authoritative Scripture.

The Polycarp quote is easily a candidate for what he learned from apostolic letters and gospels.

Further though, I wonder why you would make a issue of it.
I barely have enough time to explore all the truth in the New Testament.
The whole NT could be reconstructed, as you probably know, except for a few passages
by citations and references from these writers.

While it is interesting much to examine the church father's writings, what's wrong
with going to the source of their many concepts - the New Testament's 27 books?

I am glad you didn't submit anything frivolous which I would count as embellishment - like a giant talking cross or
boy Jesus turning clay pigeons into real birds.

 

[Feedmysheep]

These books are defined as canonical in the 4 century and the earliest existing is the Codex Sinaticus.

The way I learned it was the books were not defined as authoritative but recognized as such.
A quip you have probably heard - "The canon is not an authoritative list of writings but a list of authoritative writings."

They have never existed as Books before that.
Well , originally they existed as Biographies , but we son't have the original writings.

As I learned this matter the process of the saints of God recognizing inspired books took
place for both the Jews and for the Christian disciples. They did not bestow authority on books. They recognized authority of books.

And some contraversial writings were slow to be universally recognized. - Song of Songs, Hebrews, Revelation.

The only thing we have is how the stories were perserved and that is by line of tradition which means by passing it to the next generation.
Nothing as evidence has been found to suggest that they 'corrupted' the message within these 3 centuries.
Furthermore the Gospels were called Synoptic based on that analysis.
Because in literal translation 'Synoptic Gospels' means 'Good news that looked the same'.
They were called like that in the sense of Theology because the central Christian doctrine was not touched.

That is why we have footnotes in each translation of the Bible , so we might recognize the difference in words that changed meaning through time.
One word meant one thing in 1 century and meant another thing in second century.
That is because language evolves.

I got to realize this awhile back - that some good translations include many notes on alternative renderings of different manuscripts.
I am practicing reading the NT in Greek from Bruce Metzger's Greek NT.
No expert am I. Purely a novice. Give me a few more years.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

................................................................................................................
And this is where we end this discussions since you say that the Bible is Holy.
Only God is Holy.

What about God's Word aka Scripture being holy according to 2nd Timothy 3:15; Romans 1:2

 

[беспокойный путешественни]

The NT actually says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet’

Now how many Lords does Christianity even have?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Sure we can't prove it, just like we can't prove GOD exists but it doesn't matter really, were going by the text. I guess you could put it like this, if Moses survived, they all should have survived. Only 2 made it, not counting Moses. 2 out of an estimated 4 million.

You are taking numbers designed for emphasis and thinking they reflect an actual accurate amount. That is not how numbers are used in Jewish sacred texts. The "long lives" of some of the mythological people in Genesis such as Methuselah and Noah, are not literal. They are meant to emphasize the significance of these people.

It's quite similar to how certain numbers are used. Numbers like 7, 12, 40, etc... are special in Israelite culture. When it says that the Israelites wandered for 40 years, or that Moses was on Sinai for 40 days and nights, or that Elijah fasted for 40 days and nights, etc., etc., the number 40 is not there for numerical accuracy, but to emphasize that it was "a long time" for "a significant event."

In our present culture, we don't commonly use numbers as metaphors like this, so sometimes it can be hard to wrap our heads around this idea.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Now how many Lords does Christianity even have?

Christianity probably has two lords (and one Holy Spirit). But I don't think either of these two lords are YHWH.

 

[InChrist]

The Bible does not support YHWH as the FATHER. It does however support him as the Adversary.

He lied to Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve could hear YHWH moving about so they hid.

YHWH could not find Adam and Eve?

Adam and Eve come out from hiding to greet YHWH. It doesn't specifically say, but one can gather that it was face to face. Jesus says more than once that no man has seen the FATHER.

Jacob seen YHWH face to face, even wrestled him. Again, Jesus says more than once no man has seen the FATHER.

Moses has talked to YHWH face to face, as a friend. That is pretty clear no metaphor needed. Again, Jesus says more than once that no man has seen the FATHER.

They asked Jesus the FATHER'S name. He does not tell them. Jesus says we don't speak the FATHERS name as it is holy(pure). Jesus says that even he does not speak his FATHER'S name. So who is this YHWH?

The FATHER is Holy, he is without sin, YHWH is by his own words a jealous God, and angry, and murderous.

YHWH says with his own words in
Hosea 13:8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rip them open.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
I believe Revelation 13:2 speaks for itself.

The more I read your posts, the more I think you have a confused way of reading and understanding the scriptures. I can certainly understand that because before I was saved by Jesus Christ and born again the Bible was very confusing to me. I remember the dramatic change that took place once Jesus saved me and removed my blindness. Suddenly, the consistency and theme throughout the OT and NT became clear and made complete sense. It wasn’t like I understood everything or didn’t have questions, but I could see the big picture. One thing I fully came to realize was that Jesus ( the Son ) was God-YWHW; the God who interacted with the people in the OT period of history and who fully entered into humanity as Savior of the world, revealed in the NT.

Is Jesus Yahweh? Is Jesus Jehovah? | GotQuestions.org

Is Jesus Yahweh? Is Jesus Jehovah? How can Jesus be the Son of Yahweh and Yahweh at the same time?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Feedmysheep]

And this is where we end this discussions since you say that the Bible is Holy.
Only God is Holy.

Come back Shane!

Now lets look at this. Would you want me to call the Bible unholy ?
"The unholy Bible" - you like the sound of that better?

Okay, the Bible says God alone is holy.
. . . For You alone are holy; . . . (Rev. 15:4)

God alone is intrinsically holy aside from all other things in existence.
Yet there are things dedicated to God which are called holy.
" . . . the holy angels . . . " (Rev. 14:10)
"His holy apostles and prophets" (Eph. 3:5b)

These are things set aside for God, consecrated to God and are therefore called holy.

Then there is the holy because God infuses His life and nature into human beings saturating them with
holiness for His eternal purpose. The God who ALONE is holy dispenses His life and nature into the church that she eventually
is thoroughly holy.

That He might present the church to Himself glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that she would be holy and without blemish. (Eph. 5:27)

I call "the Holy Bible" in the sense of a library of books set aside unto God, dedicated to God, filled with His holy word.
If you wish just read "Bible". Same difference.

Because the human spirit of the regenerated man is "one spirit" with the Holy Spirit, (1 Cor. 6:17) that also makes
my regenerated human spirit "a holy spirit".

But in everything we commend ourselves as ministers of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, . . .
In pureness, in knowledge, in long-suffering, in kindness, in a holy spirit, in unfeigned love,

So the human joined to the Holy Spirit in his regeneted human spirit has one part of his being which is God - the Holy God.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

Marvelous that God, who alone is holy (Rev. 15:4) imparts His unique holy nature into His redeemed people making them one with Him.

 

[Sargonski]

Yes it does.

For example:

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “Of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, ‘The Lord (=YHWH) said to my Lord (=Adonai), sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet’? “If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”
Matt. 22:41-45 (Ps. 110:1)


No He didn't.

Bible shows YHWH found them.

I recommend to read the whole scripture. It shows the wrestler was a man.

Face to face can mean directly. Not necessary that one sees others face.

Your passage does not show YHWH as The Father to Jesus .. The Israelites could have referred to YHWH as The Father as chief God on Earth but EL is the Most High in the Heavens Father .. YHWH .. the Chief God on Earth .. National and War God of the Israelites ..

and in Psalm 110 "The Father" is not YHWH .. David is said to be a Priest Forever of the Order Melchi-Zedek. .. and The FAther - Most High - El Elyon of that order is EL . El Shaddai, Creator .. Father .. God of Abraham and Jesus ..

Jacob Wrestles with God .. but it is not until later in the narrative that he finds out he was wrestling with a God .. upon which he then asks to be blessed and asks the name of the God .. closing with “Certainly[by] I have seen God face to face[bz] and have survived.

I reccomend to read the whole scripture .. and footnotes .. which show the wrestler was a God .. some claim Angel .. but never just a man .. that is ridiculous nonsense who is claiming this .. this was a divine encounter Jacob names the place Peneil which means "Face of God"

 

[1213]

Your passage does not show YHWH as The Father to Jesus .. The Israelites could have referred to YHWH as The Father as chief God on Earth but EL is the Most High in the Heavens Father .. YHWH .. the Chief God on Earth .. National and War God of the Israelites ..

I believe what is said in the Bible, there is only one true God, YHWH.

Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
Isa. 44:6

Jacob Wrestles with God .. but it is not until later in the narrative that he finds out he was wrestling with a God ..

That a man calls himself a god, doesn't mean he is then really the God.

I reccomend to read the whole scripture .. and footnotes .. which show the wrestler was a God .. some claim Angel .. but never just a man .. that is ridiculous nonsense who is claiming this .. this was a divine encounter Jacob names the place Peneil which means "Face of God"

Jacob was left alone, and wrestled with a man there until the breaking of the day.
Gen. 32:24

 

[Feedmysheep]

I believe what is said in the Bible, there is only one true God, YHWH.

Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
Isa. 44:6

That a man calls himself a god, doesn't mean he is then really the God.

Jacob was left alone, and wrestled with a man there until the breaking of the day.
Gen. 32:24

How do you feel about God appearing to Abraham with two other men (angels) to have lunch with the patriarch in Genesis 18,19?

And Jehovah appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre as he was sitting at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day.

And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and there were three men standing opposite him. And when he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them. And he bowed down to the earth (Gen. 18:1,2)

Did you see that? Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw three men. And it says Jehovah appeared to Abraham.

Do you believe that Jehovah appeared as Abraham was looking down towards the ground somewhere?
And then he lifted his eyes up away from seeing Jehovah and instead gazed on three men?

I believe the appearance of Jehovah was in the appearance of a man with two other men if you read the chapter carefully.

And said, My Lord, if I have found favor in Your sight, please do not pass on from Your servant.
Please let a little water be fetched, and do wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. (vs.3,4)

God manifest as a man ate lunch and conversed with Abraham about Him causing Sarah to have a child in her old age. (vs. 10-14)

And He [Jehovah] said, I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and then Sarah your wife shall have a son. And Sarah was listening at the entrance of the tent, which was behind Him.

Now Abraham and Sarah were old and advanced in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah according to the manner of women.

And Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

And Jehovah said to Abraham, Why did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I indeed bear a child when I am old?

Is anything too marvelous for Jehovah? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

 

[Sargonski]

I believe what is said in the Bible, there is only one true God, YHWH.

Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
Isa. 44:6

That a man calls himself a god, doesn't mean he is then really the God.

Jacob was left alone, and wrestled with a man there until the breaking of the day.
Gen. 32:24

You are hard of hearing ? === only later in the story do we find out the identity of the Man .. who turns out to be God. Jacob initially thinks he is wrestling with a man .. later however we find out that this man is a God.

Once again I recommend reading the whole story .. including footnotes for greater understanding .. Jacob names the plase Peniel ..... and when you click on the footnote in the Bible - (bw) "The name Peniel means “face of God.” Since Jacob saw God face-to-face here, the name is appropriate."

Genesis 32:30 So Jacob named the place Peniel,[bw] explaining,[bx] “Certainly[by] I have seen God face to face[bz] and have survived.”[ca]

Now stop this incessant nonsense and take your own advice ... reading the whole passage rather than cherry picking segments and framing them out of context.

Nice that you believe the insertion of a 4th century redactor .. who is not Isaiah Isaiah himself does not believe there is only one God . None of the Israelites were Monotheist .. nor the Patriarchs from Abe on down .. and it is their Perspective with which we are concerned .. not the perspective of a redactor and Pious Frauster .. writing at a time when Judaism is becoming monotheistic.

and thus .. regardless of what you believe - something we care not a wit about ... nor what I believe for that matter .. What the Israelites and those around them believed was that there were many Gods .. and it is only this perspective that is of concern here .. and who these people called "The Father" .. who these people believed was the Most High God .. in Psalm 82 .. who is Chief of the " Assembly of EL" The God of Melchi-Zedek and Abraham .. and Jesus ! but sorry ... while YHWH was worshiped as Chief God on Earth at times .. he was never worshiped as Chief God in the Heaven.. and always YHWH is worshiped in conjunction with other Gods .. Asherah his consort .. Anat the daughter in a holy Trinity of sorts Father - Mother - Daughter .

I suggest you read the Bible once again - and show me where in the Biblical History of the Israelites that they are monotheists - rather than saving yourself the trouble and believing the fact that the answer is Nowhere.

and since you now have actually read the book .. Please explain to me what the male prostitutes in the Temple of YHWH are for ? .. do the men go to the female prostitutes .. and the women go to the male .... or .. is something else going on here ?

 

[Feedmysheep]

and thus .. regardless of what you believe - something we care not a wit about ... nor what I believe for that matter .. What the Israelites and those around them believed was that there were many Gods .. and it is only this perspective that is of concern here .. and who these people called "The Father" .. who these people believed was the Most High God .. in Psalm 82 .. who is Chief of the " Assembly of EL" The God of Melchi-Zedek and Abraham .. and Jesus ! but sorry ... while YHWH was worshiped as Chief God on Earth at times .. he was never worshiped as Chief God in the Heaven.. and always YHWH is worshiped in conjunction with other Gods .. Asherah his consort .. Anat the daughter in a holy Trinity of sorts Father - Mother - Daughter .

I suggest you read the Bible once again - and show me where in the Biblical History of the Israelites that they are monotheists - rather than saving yourself the trouble and believing the fact that the answer is Nowhere.

and since you now have actually read the book .. Please explain to me what the male prostitutes in the Temple of YHWH are for ? .. do the men go to the female prostitutes .. and the women go to the male .... or .. is something else going on here ?

Some of your analysis seems to normalize what was apostasy on the part of Israel.
You seem to argue that their degradation into having many gods was the normal faith of Israel.
This however should be seen as their abnormal backsliding into the customs of the nations.

Comment on these indications that Israelite prophets spoke of Yahweh [Jehovah] as the only God. When healthy spiritually
they saw these so-called other gods as demons.

1.) And they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to the goat demons, to whom they prostitute themselves. This shall become a perpetual statute for them throughout their generations. (Lev. 17:7)

2.) They made Him jealous with strange gods; / With abominations they provoked Him to anger.
They sacrificed to demons, to those who were no god, / To gods they did not know, / To new ones who had recently come up, / Before whom your fathers had not shuddered. (Deut. 32:16,17)

3.) And have cast their gods into the fire, because they were not gods but the work of men’s hands, wood and stone; so they destroyed them. And now, O Jehovah our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You alone, O Jehovah, are God. (2 Kings 19:18,19)

4.) You are My witnesses, declares Jehovah, / And My servant whom I have chosen, / In order that you may know and believe Me / And understand that I am He. / Before Me there was no God formed, / Neither will there be any after Me. (Isa. 43:10)

5.) Do not tremble and do not be afraid. / Have I not related to you from that time and declared it? / And you are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? / Or is there any other Rock? I do not know of any. (Isa. 44:8)

 

[Sargonski]

Some of your analysis seems to normalize what was apostasy on the part of Israel.
You seem to argue that their degradation into having many gods was the normal faith of Israel.
This however should be seen as their abnormal backsliding into the customs of the nations.

Comment on these indications that Israelite prophets spoke of Yahweh [Jehovah] as the only God. When healthy spiritually
they saw these so-called other gods as demons.

1.) And they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to the goat demons, to whom they prostitute themselves. This shall become a perpetual statute for them throughout their generations. (Lev. 17:7)

2.) They made Him jealous with strange gods; / With abominations they provoked Him to anger.
They sacrificed to demons, to those who were no god, / To gods they did not know, / To new ones who had recently come up, / Before whom your fathers had not shuddered. (Deut. 32:16,17)

3.) And have cast their gods into the fire, because they were not gods but the work of men’s hands, wood and stone; so they destroyed them. And now, O Jehovah our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You alone, O Jehovah, are God. (2 Kings 19:18,19)

4.) You are My witnesses, declares Jehovah, / And My servant whom I have chosen, / In order that you may know and believe Me / And understand that I am He. / Before Me there was no God formed, / Neither will there be any after Me. (Isa. 43:10)

5.) Do not tremble and do not be afraid. / Have I not related to you from that time and declared it? / And you are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? / Or is there any other Rock? I do not know of any. (Isa. 44:8)

Interesting comments and observations .. even though you ended up with some wrong conclusions. So then you are 100% correct that I present the Israelites as a non monotheistic bunch .. and by this I really do mean .. Not one day .. almost ... sans the ridiculous absurdity .. and I challenge you to prove this to yourself without using external Biblical sources .. because that would be way to easy .. but simply within the Bible. .. show me a single moment in time when the Israelites are monotheist .. or even more easy .. worshiping only YHWH .... should be simple to find at least one moment in time .. when they were following ridiculous rules the Redactors created after the Israelites were long Gone .. every single day .. pagan as the day is long.

Find me a time - when the Israelites are monotheist .. throughout the time from the Exodus through to YHWH's death in ~ 580 BC at the hand of Lord Marduk .... Their story .. not mine

On mark .. set .. Go

 

[1213]

How do you feel about God appearing to Abraham with two other men (angels) to have lunch with the patriarch in Genesis 18,19?

And Jehovah appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre as he was sitting at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day.

And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and there were three men standing opposite him. And when he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them. And he bowed down to the earth (Gen. 18:1,2)

Did you see that? Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw three men. And it says Jehovah appeared to Abraham.

Do you believe that Jehovah appeared as Abraham was looking down towards the ground somewhere?
And then he lifted his eyes up away from seeing Jehovah and instead gazed on three men?

Thank you, that is an interesting point. By what is said in the Bible, YHWH is the only true God and can't be seen directly without dying. So, if the man was really the God who can't be seen without dying, then there is a little problem.

I think that beginning doesn't necessary mean one of the men was the God.

And He [Jehovah] said, I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and then Sarah your wife shall have a son. And Sarah was listening at the entrance of the tent, which was behind Him.

Now Abraham and Sarah were old and advanced in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah according to the manner of women.

And Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

And Jehovah said to Abraham, Why did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I indeed bear a child when I am old?

Is anything too marvelous for Jehovah? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

But, this later part seems to tell that the man was the God. And this could cause many problems in the Bible. On the other hand, it could be fitting that there is Elohim, the one and only true God and YHWH would be then Jesus. In many cases that could be useful. However, if everything said in the Bible is taken into account, I think there is only one true God, whose name is YHWH and the God is greater than Jesus and is not a man.

This obviously leads to the question, what happened by the oaks of Mamre. One way to see this is the same as in the case of Jesus. Bible tells God lives in Jesus. And in Jesus God appeared to people. The same could be in this Mamre case, YHWH appeared to Abraham in the man. But, i have to think this more, perhaps there is some other better explanation.

What do you think, that God is a man?

 

[1213]

You are hard of hearing ? === only later in the story do we find out the identity of the Man .. who turns out to be God. Jacob initially thinks he is wrestling with a man .. later however we find out that this man is a God.

The man calls himself god, does not necessary mean he is actually the one and only true God.

Once again I recommend reading the whole story .. including footnotes for greater understanding .. Jacob names the plase Peniel ..... and when you click on the footnote in the Bible - (bw) "The name Peniel means “face of God.” Since Jacob saw God face-to-face here, the name is appropriate."

If we accept Jacob saw YHWH, would you then say he is not the true God, because it is said no one can see the God face to face?

Isaiah himself does not believe there is only one God .

Sorry, I have no good reason to believe you.

....What the Israelites and those around them believed was that there were many Gods ..

In a way that is true, even Moses was called a god at one point. Doesn't mean the Israelites were not monotheists, they just understood that many thing are called gods, but still, there is only one true God.

Yahweh said to Moses, “Behold, I have made you as God [Elohim] to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
Exod. 7:1
For though there are things that are called “gods”, whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many “gods” and many “lords”; yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Cor. 8:5-6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

...Please explain to me what the male prostitutes in the Temple of YHWH are for ?...

What are you talking about?