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How did God create life?

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Why do people want to know stuff that is so far above their pay grade, stuff only God could ever understand? Don't we have enough problems in the world we need to understand and address? :confused:

My philosophy is that if I can’t do anything about it, why ponder it? I like to think that my belief system and foundation is secure enough and I’m open-minded enough to accept whatever the truth may be. Such lint-in-the-navel contemplation just becomes a stumbling block to what’s really important.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
My philosophy is that if I can’t do anything about it, why ponder it? I like to think that my belief system and foundation is secure enough and I’m open-minded enough to accept whatever the truth may be. Such lint-in-the-navel contemplation just becomes a stumbling block to what’s really important.
I fully agree. Some things we just cannot know and we do not need to know. Truth is what matters and Truth is found in all the religions, not in just one. Truth also exists outside of religion. :D
 

janesix

Active Member
Very well then. I base the following propositions on Indo-European mythology, and the traditions that arose out of it. Since this is the gods I believe in- the Devas.

I believe that the gods were born from the great interactions of cosmic forces. The old ones, I will call them, the most primal and unpredictable of gods- are the ones that were born.

Because they were born from the forces playing on one another and not the physical phenomena themselves- the gods are not material in the sense we perceive being.

Of these old ones born were beings such as Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, Gaia the Earth Mother, Eris, Typhon/Mara, and others. The most pure of intent and good among these old ones was Brahma the Creator. His intent was to create, almost like a writer is compelled to write.

He tweaked the evolutionary forces on this planet until humans were made- his most valued creations. Don't ask me to question why someone like Brahma would value humans so much. He acts as he will act. He's a god.

However, the other deities were tweaking other natural and cosmic phenomena. To my mind, this partly explains why existence as it currently is can be seemingly contradictory and opposed to processes within itself. Because distinct beings brought about these things, and some of them are not in agreement. Think how matter and anti-matter are opposed.

Let's skip a lot of the cosmological conclusions I've drawn though, and come to humans ourselves. How we came to be.

As powerful as Brahma is- he wasn't powerful enough to assert his rule over the earth. That would be beings like Kronos, and later Indra/Zeus. Remember, I stated I draw these conclusions from Indo-European mythology in general. Indra is a born being. We know this from the Vedas and Indian mythology, but the details there are less.

Therefore, to the Greeks I go to fill in this information. Kronos, as the Greeks call him- ruled the earth for unknown eons with his Titan brethren. Earth and sky were their parents, but in a spiritual way- not like we mortals could perceive.

Kronos cared for nothing except his own rule we are told. Making sure he held his power without end. This means he cared nothing for humans or any concept of law- beyond keeping them loyal.

Kronos lavished all kinds of blessings and boons upon humans, but he cared nothing for deeper matters like law, justice, fairness, or goodness. This is the time scientists know as the infancy of humans. The golden age, it is called in mythology. The first age of humanity's existence.

This age's end was brought about by several cosmic events. Let's discuss what I surmise those were.

Prometheus, one of the Titans, began to long for the throne of Kronos. He wished to be king. That desire was like a burning ambition in him constantly.

This Prometheus decided to enlist humans to his aid, seeing potentiality in us. He began to teach us to be warriors. He developed in our kind all kinds of vices and destructive inclinations. He corrupted what Brahma had made, into something the Creator never would have wanted.

Brahma is a gentle and kind being by his nature. He could do nothing to stop such ruthless ambition like Prometheus's. While Prometheus was gradually evolving humans to be his soldiers and loyalists to fight for him- Zeus/Indra overthrew his father and became king of immortals.

Prometheus turned on Zeus. He determined it was time to make his move. First he taught humans to insult Zeus and the Olympians/gods of Mount Meru by sacrificing them the leftover, unusable bits.

Then he brought humans fire in a cylinder, which I determine was a weapon he gave us to wipe out the gods once and for all. This bringing forth of fire, is the Sanskrit word Pramathia. It is an action of Agni. Thereby, we know Prometheus and Agni are one and the same. However, Agni is a good being, so let's proceed in our story.

Prometheus brought forth fire in a cylinder weapon, intent on humans destroying the gods of the heavenly mountain. Zeus immediately brought this plot to an end. Easily overpowering Prometheus- he chained him to a rock in one of the hells.

Then Zeus/Indra began to teach humans about law and virtue. He did this partly out of pity, for the beings he had rescued from his father's rule. Zeus was always stated to have a good and blessed nature, with a sense of law and higher divine knowledge.

Zeus, who is in fact Indra- was the new ruler of the earth in it's cosmic sense. In due time he sent Hercules to release Prometheus. After this was done- Prometheus ascended from hell. He had been reborn as Agni, who is a blessed being. I already demonstrated how the two are connected.

Later on Brahma, Indra, and Agni would all come to take take refuge in the Buddha- our texts tell us. The Buddha being one beyond the constructed, the order, the created, or the destroyed. He comes from the highest realm, residing in Nirvana.

Those gods that recognize this will take refuge in the Lord. The Buddha's coming forth was necessitated by the state of things the gods had caused, in part. Because the Buddha is so filled with compassion for suffering beings, and he knows beings like the gods and ourselves cause suffering due to ignorance. Not out of true malevolence.

That brings us to where we currently are- the Kalpa, or age in which the Buddha's Dharma has appeared.

I tried to keep that short. If you have questions- ask.
Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I meant as opposed to directed, or purposeful evolution.

Careful, ID is not an observable property of nature to show God's intent.

God's Creation has intent and it is purposeful, and the methods are natural Any other scenario Creates contradictions between the natural existence and the nature of n omnipotent God. God does leave false misleading evidence in Creation to fool scientists.
 

janesix

Active Member
Careful, ID is not an observable property of nature to show God's intent.

God's Creation has intent and it is purposeful, and the methods are natural Any other scenario Creates contradictions between the natural existence and the nature of n omnipotent God. God does leave false misleading evidence in Creation to fool scientists.
Why would God do something like that?
 

socharlie

Active Member
Exactly. I want to know the process.
Nachmanides (and Fabre d'Olivet ) explained that only thing created ex nihilo was a elementary particle of matter with blueprint of everything to be built in that matter. Fabre d'Olivet translated opening of Genesis that everything I Gen. 1 was crated in principle as plan. Nachmanides said all life forms in Gen. created as potentiality as life force.
 

janesix

Active Member
Nachmanides (and Fabre d'Olivet ) explained that only thing created ex nihilo was a elementary particle of matter with blueprint of everything to be built in that matter. Fabre d'Olivet translated opening of Genesis that everything I Gen. 1 was crated in principle as plan. Nachmanides said all life forms in Gen. created as potentiality as life force.
So God preprogrammed everything?
 

socharlie

Active Member
So God preprogrammed everything?
in a way, I understand that design was universal - a life would appear under certain conditions, and there may be many places in universe where life exist but adjusted to different sets of conditions.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The big bang of creation included a will to be conscious as one of it's underlying principles. This will to be conscious was utterly latent in gases and stones but started manifesting in the vegetable and animal kingdoms reaching its fruition in humans.

Those who have divine consciousness aid the process by creating model structures for evolution just as an architect creates blueprints for a building.

(I recognize this is a belief and not scientific).
 

janesix

Active Member
The big bang of creation included a will to be conscious as one of it's underlying principles. This will to be conscious was utterly latent in gases and stones but started manifesting in the vegetable and animal kingdoms reaching its fruition in humans.

Those who have divine consciousness aid the process by creating model structures for evolution just as an architect creates blueprints for a building.

(I recognize this is a belief and not scientific).
That's ok. I am just looking at ideas. Thank you.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Do you really think a weak human mind can understand how God did anything? Can a roach understand how a person built the house it is living in? A human mind is as weak compared to God's mind as a roach mind to a human.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
janesix said:
Why would God do something like that?

No, God would not, but humans desire to mold Creation in their own world view like fundamentalist Christians, Intelligent Design and some other Christians, Muslims, and other belief systems reject or conditional accept part of science based on a religious agenda. They Create a contradictory picture that in some way the evidence does not reflect the science. It is these contradictions that are the problem.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Do you really think a weak human mind can understand how God did anything? Can a roach understand how a person built the house it is living in? A human mind is as weak compared to God's mind as a roach mind to a human.

This is an unfortunate problem with many Christians that 'claim' to know how God did it.

We are not a roach hiding under the sink. We are intelligent human beings with the gifts from God of intellect and reason. Through science humans can understand the natural processes of nature and Creation. Not in the absolute sense, nor can we know nor define God in the narrow sense many believers claim.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you really think a weak human mind can understand how God did anything? Can a roach understand how a person built the house it is living in? A human mind is as weak compared to God's mind as a roach mind to a human.
No human mind can understand the mystery of the Living God.

“Wert thou to ponder in thine heart, from now until the end that hath no end, and with all the concentrated intelligence and understanding which the greatest minds have attained in the past or will attain in the future, this divinely ordained and subtle Reality, this sign of the revelation of the All-Abiding, All-Glorious God, thou wilt fail to comprehend its mystery or to appraise its virtue. Having recognized thy powerlessness to attain to an adequate understanding of that Reality which abideth within thee, thou wilt readily admit the futility of such efforts as may be attempted by thee, or by any of the created things, to fathom the mystery of the Living God, the Day Star of unfading glory, the Ancient of everlasting days. This confession of helplessness which mature contemplation must eventually impel every mind to make is in itself the acme of human understanding, and marketh the culmination of man’s development.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 165-166
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Exactly. I want to know the process.
If you have the exact process of Abiogenesis, and the process where life became gradually more and more complex, branched into multi cellular organisms, and finally into gender super complex higher life including us, how the DNA became developed this way, why would you need to know how ID is done?

Even now, in labs, scientists are using Crispr for human manipulation of genes. Don't you think that if scientists can manipulate genes with this technique that God can too with similar and superior methods?!

But, before I leave, please describe in detail how Abiogenesis came about, how the DNA on its own created all forms of life including ourselves.
 

janesix

Active Member
If you have the exact process of Abiogenesis, and the process where life became gradually more and more complex, branched into multi cellular organisms, and finally into gender super complex higher life including us, how the DNA became developed this way, why would you need to know how ID is done?

Even now, in labs, scientists are using Crispr for human manipulation of genes. Don't you think that if scientists can manipulate genes with this technique that God can too with similar and superior methods?!

But, before I leave, please describe in detail how Abiogenesis came about, how the DNA on its own created all forms of life including ourselves.

I'm an IDer. I want to know how God did it......
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
I'm an IDer. I want to know how God did it......
OK. Good for you.

I can only say this, God gave us some basic info, and he gave us godlike abilities. He has nothing against us doing all we can to discover how things work scientifically. I would really have loved it had we access to God's 'Internet' and could browse histories, and see what happened, how things were done, but that doesn't seem to be provided for us.

So, buckle down and get to studying. :):) Here, if you look at how scientists manipulate genes, virus do it, we have some hints as to how things might have been done.
 
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