How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[zenzero]

Friends,

This thread started by friend jubilee under Biblical debates and as there maybe others like me who wish to share their understanding of the story am bringing it under Comparative Religion.

The above topic is akin to the one had started as Thinkers vs Meditators but appropriately could be "Mind and No-Mind."

Personal understanding: Mind in its natural state is meditative, is still and at birth it is such. So Bible states that children gets entry to heaven [garden of eden] or be child like meaning be meditative which itself means child like.
As the mind starts its natural process i.e. thinking it moves away from the meditative state and so one gets driven by his own karma from that garden of eden. Satan is none other than our own MINDS.
It comes by default. If still mind is there thinking mind is there by default.
Stillness is void/nothingness/God and vibration is thoughts/satan/everythingness.

The difference between garden of eden and heaven is that garden of eden is where humans find themselves at birth and after gong through the way/path/religion is able to master it and transcend the mind totally then all the karma is over and then it stage of human form is over to merge with void/nothingness and that is labelled as *heaven*.

Over to everyone.

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, am in general agreement with that. It is reinforced by the idea of the downside of the mind gaining conceptual knowledge through dualistic comparison represented by the 'eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil', it 'falls' away from the integrated state of being one with the omniscience of God.

A house divided can not stand!

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

Yes, all scriptures are but pointers.
Human mind is either grabbing that finger pointing towards the moon or is in awe of the moon but few can grasp what it is all about.

Love & rgds

 

[Thief]

You are aware there is another thread by similar title....?
and that thread is covered by disbelief and history lessons.

In that thread there seems a lack of focus about the character of Satan.
No one seems willing to say the garden event happened.
(if not then God and Man have never met)

No one seems willing to face the notion that God might well have an Adversary who would interfere, as God makes an attempt to alter the mind and body of Man....to further a closer relationship.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

God is Absolute and so can't be compared to anything because it remains forever outside/beyond the illusion of duality.

The concept of Adversary represents a differentiated aspects of the ONE, and has its complementary opposite concept which is Devotee. In the same way, Ying and Yang are differentiated aspects of the Tao, but the eternal Tao is forever beyond description or knowledge.

I form the light and create darkness,
I bring peace and create evil.
I, the LORD, do all these things. - Isaiah 45:7

Perhaps it could be said that Satan represents the involutional 'force' of differentiation from Oneness, and Christ represents the evolutional 'force' of integration to the Oneness.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.- Ephesians 6:12

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

Thank you for the pointer!
Retreat; have to go back to meditate over it again.
Anyway appreciate more discussion so that a deeper insight emerges.

Love & rgds

 

[atropine]

From my opinion, the Bible has stories in it that were from other religions. In one Sumerian mythology, Enki... the god that created humanity... tried to give humanity knowledge in his form as the Serpent God. The God of Heaven, Enki's older half brother Enlil, punished him for it.

So, to me, Satan is simply a new version of an older myth and an older god. That older god is not a devil or demon; he was humanity's creator and protector, and he was vilified for what he did. To me, Satan in the Garden of Eden represents humans coming into their own and emerging as independent, intelligent individuals. He was the one who fanned the divine spark so to speak. Sure, from it came pain and sorrow and sadness, but with it has come joy, knowledge, love and freedom.

Innocence died on the day Adam (which could very well refer to humanity in general and not one man) ate "the fruit" from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. To me, that is not a bad thing. "Ignorance is bliss" to me is not a true statement.

Just my own interpretation of the events, people and places.

 

[zenzero]

Friend atropine,

Thank you for your response.
Agree without dualism their would be no life itself!

Love & rgds

 

[Christina83]

From my opinion, the Bible has stories in it that were from other religions. In one Sumerian mythology, Enki... the god that created humanity... tried to give humanity knowledge in his form as the Serpent God. The God of Heaven, Enki's older half brother Enlil, punished him for it.

So, to me, Satan is simply a new version of an older myth and an older god. That older god is not a devil or demon; he was humanity's creator and protector, and he was vilified for what he did. To me, Satan in the Garden of Eden represents humans coming into their own and emerging as independent, intelligent individuals. He was the one who fanned the divine spark so to speak. Sure, from it came pain and sorrow and sadness, but with it has come joy, knowledge, love and freedom.

Innocence died on the day Adam (which could very well refer to humanity in general and not one man) ate "the fruit" from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. To me, that is not a bad thing. "Ignorance is bliss" to me is not a true statement.

Just my own interpretation of the events, people and places.

I personally don't believe the bible is just a book of stories, but really inspired by God, for the following reasons:

*Bible prophecy explains the meaning of world conditions
Many world leaders acknowledge that mankind is on the brink of disaster. The Bible foretold these conditions long ago; it explains their meaning and what the outcome will be. (2 Tim. 3:1-5)

*Evidences of inspiration
It is filled with prophecies reflecting detailed knowledge of the future—something impossible for humans

*Its internal harmony is significant
This is especially so in view of the fact that the books of the Bible were recorded by some 40 men as diverse as king, prophet, herdsman, tax collector, and physician. They did the writing over a period of 1,610 years; so there was no opportunity for collusion. Yet their writings agree, even in the smallest detail.
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Surely a book that claims to be from God, that explains both the meaning of world conditions and the purpose of life, and that shows how our problems will be solved is worthy of consideration.

Hence I also believe that Satan is a real character, who spoke to a real human (Eve) and who's the cause of all suffering on earth.

 

[no-body]

I think that like Satan the mind makes a good servant but a poor master, there is a reason Satan was allowed to tempt adam and eve. Satan is still part of the order of the universe itself no matter how much it (seems to) leads us away from the truth.

 

[Thief]

So some lean to metaphor as others prefer literal.

But can it be allowed to say....
God has attempted to speak with Man....and someone had to be first?
Having some success, the attempt was expounded upon.
Not only the spirit and mind of Man but his body as well?

Hence the Chpater Two of Genesis.
(which is NOT a retelling of Chapter One)

I say, God created Man as a form of which individuals are formed.
Your linear existence will produce a unique spirit.
Adam was the first to encounter God.
The serpent would be an Adversary attempting to undo the effort.

We might ask ourselves 'why' the interference?
Why would someone of spirit, interfere with the form of Man?
What would a spiritual Adversary gain?

Perhaps with Man as part of the scheme of things....
the Adversary's place and presence with God would be reduced.
Jealousy?...as a motive?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

From my opinion, the Bible has stories in it that were from other religions. In one Sumerian mythology, Enki... the god that created humanity... tried to give humanity knowledge in his form as the Serpent God. The God of Heaven, Enki's older half brother Enlil, punished him for it.

So, to me, Satan is simply a new version of an older myth and an older god. That older god is not a devil or demon; he was humanity's creator and protector, and he was vilified for what he did. To me, Satan in the Garden of Eden represents humans coming into their own and emerging as independent, intelligent individuals. He was the one who fanned the divine spark so to speak. Sure, from it came pain and sorrow and sadness, but with it has come joy, knowledge, love and freedom.

Innocence died on the day Adam (which could very well refer to humanity in general and not one man) ate "the fruit" from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. To me, that is not a bad thing. "Ignorance is bliss" to me is not a true statement.

Just my own interpretation of the events, people and places.

I pretty much agree with this view.

I think that Satan is a real spiritual Being who cares about us enough to give us Gnosis and Consciousness and so free us from mindlessness and subservience - illusion.

 

[te_lanus]

Me personally Don't really think "Satan/the Devil" was in The Garden of Eden. "The Snake" was there.

I think Satan was later tagged into the story, after The exile, when the Jews met the Zoroastrians in Babel, as having a "enemy" to God made it easy to blame all the "Evil" stuff running wild on earth easily explainable and pinnable on someone else than God , as it makes God ultimately good.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Me personally Don't really think "Satan/the Devil" was in The Garden of Eden. "The Snake" was there.

I think Satan was later tagged into the story, after The exile, when the Jews met the Zoroastrians in Babel, as having a "enemy" to God made it easy to blame all the "Evil" stuff running wild on earth easily explainable and pinnable on someone else than God , as it makes God ultimately good.

Jews don't view Satan as an "evil" being who is in rebellion against Yahweh. That only came about with Christianity.

 

[Mindmaster]

Jews don't view Satan as an "evil" being who is in rebellion against Yahweh. That only came about with Christianity.

Or Satanism (on the rebellion part)..

1) Most traditional Satanists believe either Satan is the true god (who is not evil) or a fallen angel (again not evil, 'leading a revolt vs a slave master in heaven') exalted to a new god. Jews view angels as unable to do anything but Jehovah's will, and that good and evil are both created by him. In a Jewish context Satan tempts man, but is doing Jehovah's work. They do not believe in hell, nor do we.

2) Christian's agree with the 'fallen angel' bit, just not the rest.They are really the only ones that believe in hell as a place you can go for most Satanists it is just a symbol and not a real place usually mentioned in preference to going to heaven.

3) The snake symbolism was probably used convey the message to the early Hebrews who where likely a hell of a lot more pantheistic than their modern incarnations would indicate. The god Enki (Sumerian, EA - Babylonia/Assyrian) was symbolized by the snake and likely that is where the reference comes from considering that that culture nearly engulfed any area where the Hebrews resided in the past. The fact that this god was also the god of intelligence and according to those myths the direct creator of humanity. I have no doubt that the local Hebrews were certainly aware of these stories. Its possible that at the time Genesis was written Hebrews were partaking in both pantheons. The garden of Eden could have been anywhere literally or even non-existent. Many mythological stories in the past were purely symbolic like Aesop's Fables. They are not the only ones that were pantheistic -- the Christians were as well originally and spent a lot of time venerating the classic local gods. This whole 'trinity' idea or 'monotheism' didn't come a long until relatively recently.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

If man's mind is satan, then satan entered the Garden through ego. As we gain knowledge and experience, we perceive that there is control. This is where 'satan' enters. And he's too stubborn to leave... Clearing the mind and releasing control and removing the ego are difficult

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Clearing the mind and releasing control and removing the ego are difficult

Especially when its the ego who sets about removing the ego....

 

[Thief]

Removing your mind is a poor concept.

You will be 'you', even if you die.

The garden event set in motion everything about making....'you'.
You're suppose to have an ego.
That's what you're here for.

Satan would be that Adversary bent on denying God...'you'.
All of this set in motion and then you fail to become a worthwhile character?
That's the plan of the Adversary.
The Adversary would have the best of creation fail to produce....'you'.

The body...by design.... will produce a unique person.

Making denial of this...the Adversary has already won.
'You' lose.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Removing your mind is a poor concept.

You will be 'you', even if you die.

The garden event set in motion everything about making....'you'.
You're suppose to have an ego.
That's what you're here for.

Satan would be that Adversary bent on denying God...'you'.
All of this set in motion and then you fail to become a worthwhile character?
That's the plan of the Adversary.
The Adversary would have the best of creation fail to produce....'you'.

The body...by design.... will produce a unique person.

Making denial of this...the Adversary has already won.
'You' lose.

Which OP did you read?

 

[Thief]

Which OP did you read?

Can't tie it altogether?
That serpent in the garden was trying to undo what the garden was made for.
That attempt was an influence.

How did Satan get into the garden?
He slithered in.

Having been caught in that form, he was told to leave the same way.