How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[Hevenly Heathen]

The OP was about Mind and No-Mind, or Meditation and Thought.
You brought up religion and how religiously we could not rid ourselves of our ego because that was not the point of it all.
In other modalities, losing oneself, destroying the ego is a good thing as it allows one to lose oneself and reunite with the Universe as One. The ego is the culmination of conscious imprinting of habits of thought and wants, the part of us which screams we are unique.

How can we return to the source and be One if we are stopping ourselves?

 

[Thief]

The OP was about Mind and No-Mind, or Meditation and Thought.
You brought up religion and how religiously we could not rid ourselves of our ego because that was not the point of it all.
In other modalities, losing oneself, destroying the ego is a good thing as it allows one to lose oneself and reunite with the Universe as One. The ego is the culmination of conscious imprinting of habits of thought and wants, the part of us which screams we are unique.

How can we return to the source and be One if we are stopping ourselves?

Well we are in the comparative section....
And the topic title mentions the garden...
and losing one's ego is a good thing?
When obviously we are intended to be unique.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

We are in the comparative section, as we are comparing the Garden of Eden to meditation and thought.

Ego is the best tool Karma has.

We are unique, but how do we become one with the universe, the source, the all, if we purposely separate ourselves from it?

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Pardon for not attending to the posts earlier.
The reason for the post in comparative section was because the effort was to share the understanding that God's creation or existence itself is the Garden of Eden where we all live happily but Satan spoiled it to push us out of the Garden and so we need to re enter meaning that Satan is non other than our very own minds that guide us, controls our emotions etc to keep us away from CONSCIOUSNESS which is what the Garden of Eden is all about.

Kindly share your views or if the concept appears distorted??

LOve & rgds

 

[Orias]

So some lean to metaphor as others prefer literal.

But can it be allowed to say....
God has attempted to speak with Man....and someone had to be first?
Having some success, the attempt was expounded upon.
Not only the spirit and mind of Man but his body as well?

Hence the Chpater Two of Genesis.
(which is NOT a retelling of Chapter One)

I say, God created Man as a form of which individuals are formed.
Your linear existence will produce a unique spirit.
Adam was the first to encounter God.
The serpent would be an Adversary attempting to undo the effort.

We might ask ourselves 'why' the interference?
Why would someone of spirit, interfere with the form of Man?
What would a spiritual Adversary gain?

Perhaps with Man as part of the scheme of things....
the Adversary's place and presence with God would be reduced.
Jealousy?...as a motive?

To undo an aspect in accord with who's will?
Is this a manifest of Satan, to defy the laws of God, or to tempt the faint of heart?

When does one become strong? When they manipulate the powers of faith, we all adjust the lens to our own liking.

Adam was the first man to discover God, yet it was Satan who was spawned in the garden before both. Thus making Adam's discovery not of original sin, but secondary perception.

Satan does not hide those from God, as he can only act in accordance to the laws of nature, thus making his repute nothing more than a job that needs to be done.

 

[Thief]

To undo an aspect in accord with who's will?
Is this a manifest of Satan, to defy the laws of God, or to tempt the faint of heart?

When does one become strong? When they manipulate the powers of faith, we all adjust the lens to our own liking.

Adam was the first man to discover God, yet it was Satan who was spawned in the garden before both. Thus making Adam's discovery not of original sin, but secondary perception.

Satan does not hide those from God, as he can only act in accordance to the laws of nature, thus making his repute nothing more than a job that needs to be done.

The question at onset is to the mark.
Angels are believed to be servants and closer to God.
To have been with God from the beginning.

God's will first....the angels always obey.
It's been rumored they have no freewill.
(I don't believe that)

And then...God created Man...for what?
Is there something about being angelic that lacks attention?
(could constant head nodding lack 'conversation'?)

The creation of Man would hold greater fascination?
"What is Man that God is mindful of him?"

Man is that creature that is between heaven and earth.
(life eternal....death eternal)

It is this life that makes us unique, and that is the one quality that nothing else has.

So for what, would the Adversary have cause to interfere?
Man now draws the attention of God.
Would the Adversary gain anything by our failure to become angelic?

Didn't one third of heaven lose their position over an argument
concerning something that looks like...you?
Didn't two thirds of heaven lose their brothers over an argument about
something that looks like...you?

The garden event would then be a pivot point for Mankind.
The effort then was to open the mind and spirit of Man.
In the same place and time...darkness came calling.

Willfulness does seem to be the pivot point....
Whose will are you chasing after?
WHAT do you think you pursue?

 

[Omario]

I believe Satan is a real character, who did enter the Garden and did tempt man into eating the fruit of knowledge. I believe Satan was able to do this because he was created with a free will, like all Humans are also, and Adam choice to eat the fruit using his free will.

I believe our creator has complete knowledge of everything in this Universe, past, present, and future. I think God definitely knew Adam would consume the fruit through Satan's temptation. I believe that God placed the tree in the Garden for that particular purpose - to allow Adam to eat the fruit of knowledge - and of course God allowed it to happen when he may have stopped it.

I think the purpose of it all was to allow Mankind to increase their knowledge of themselves and their creator. We learn on Earth so that we can be prepared for entering Paradise, and can act accordingly.

I believe free will, and freedom of choice is one of our Creator's greatest gifts to us, and that this world is the greatest test.

I've not really thought about the event in terms of still mind vs thinking/vibrating mind. It makes sense that sometimes our thoughts take us further from the truth and can lead us astray - but it seems like a bare-bones analogy to me. I believe thinking can take us away from God, but it can also bring us closer to our creator and truth.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Satan is a part of us just as Christ is. The Beast is as part of the garden as the Angel is. My own interpretation of this analogy is that in the meditative state we are indulging in neither God nor Satan, but finding the balance of both.

 

[zenzero]

Friend GC,

in the meditative state we are indulging in neither God nor Satan, but finding the balance of both.

Thank you for your response.
Personally as mentioned above take CONSCIOUSNESS to be ;labelled God and our thinking mind as Satan that clouds the linkage between being and THAT consciousness that he is.
Balance is what is exactly in the middle which Gautama pointed at!

Love & rgds

 

[Orias]

The question at onset is to the mark.
Angels are believed to be servants and closer to God.
To have been with God from the beginning.

God's will first....the angels always obey.
It's been rumored they have no freewill.
(I don't believe that)

And then...God created Man...for what?
Is there something about being angelic that lacks attention?
(could constant head nodding lack 'conversation'?)

The creation of Man would hold greater fascination?
"What is Man that God is mindful of him?"

Man is that creature that is between heaven and earth.
(life eternal....death eternal)

It is this life that makes us unique, and that is the one quality that nothing else has.

So for what, would the Adversary have cause to interfere?
Man now draws the attention of God.
Would the Adversary gain anything by our failure to become angelic?

Didn't one third of heaven lose their position over an argument
concerning something that looks like...you?
Didn't two thirds of heaven lose their brothers over an argument about
something that looks like...you?

The garden event would then be a pivot point for Mankind.
The effort then was to open the mind and spirit of Man.
In the same place and time...darkness came calling.

Willfulness does seem to be the pivot point....
Whose will are you chasing after?
WHAT do you think you pursue?

Angels and demons, they are all manifestations of our own desire.

Those close to God are neither, for they stand by in idle silence, almost as if they are Gods themselves. Seeking that which they are in between.

For what they will is not a dominant position, rather to stand side by side as equals yet opposites. Striking versus submission.

Demons so to speak, show not their angelic side because they exist to show Opposition to the outside. What they look like is irrelevant, simply because they serve one purpose like all things.

Willfulness or obedience, they all adhere to one law. Where its gravity can only be formulated by the unfathomable. We speak of knowing and certainty, but fail to express the inner doubt that always lies within.

The adversary only interferes with that which rightfully belongs to him, for blood can be counted and time is merciless. The Adversary exists not only outside of ourselves but plays a role in our own vital existence.

Everything outside and inside of the adversary is exactly that which it is, adversarial, oppositional.

When a mind lives in contradiction, it fathoms the (un)attainable. For it is the mind of our very being that lives in contradiction to certainty, thus making what we are nothing more than beings of conflict.

Images are nothing more than that, what they are is what you are. What is gained in the end is doubtful, but the purpose of meaning is existential.

Heaven and Eden, they are both realms in between the void of nothingness. No words are spoken to man who cannot hear you on the other side, but we tend to think that we can hear them.

Who is it? Do you know?

The will I follow is one that I was born without. The will I follow is life, because I am. I exist not to be torn down by my fellow man, but to be torn down by myself, because I am of all beings and deities, my own enemy. The will I follow is the only will we have.

What should I say? How should I move my face to express feeling or thought? I know not yet I do, in accord to the best of my judgement I have the will to do freely.

However there will always be a consequence which plays a larger role in consciousness, because like all results and reactions, meaning and accuracy is skeptically formed.

 

[Thief]

Angels and demons, they are all manifestations of our own desire.

Those close to God are neither, for they stand by in idle silence, almost as if they are Gods themselves. Seeking that which they are in between.

For what they will is not a dominant position, rather to stand side by side as equals yet opposites. Striking versus submission.

Demons so to speak, show not their angelic side because they exist to show Opposition to the outside. What they look like is irrelevant, simply because they serve one purpose like all things.

Willfulness or obedience, they all adhere to one law. Where its gravity can only be formulated by the unfathomable. We speak of knowing and certainty, but fail to express the inner doubt that always lies within.

The adversary only interferes with that which rightfully belongs to him, for blood can be counted and time is merciless. The Adversary exists not only outside of ourselves but plays a role in our own vital existence.

Everything outside and inside of the adversary is exactly that which it is, adversarial, oppositional.

When a mind lives in contradiction, it fathoms the (un)attainable. For it is the mind of our very being that lives in contradiction to certainty, thus making what we are nothing more than beings of conflict.

Images are nothing more than that, what they are is what you are. What is gained in the end is doubtful, but the purpose of meaning is existential.

Heaven and Eden, they are both realms in between the void of nothingness. No words are spoken to man who cannot hear you on the other side, but we tend to think that we can hear them.

Who is it? Do you know?

The will I follow is one that I was born without. The will I follow is life, because I am. I exist not to be torn down by my fellow man, but to be torn down by myself, because I am of all beings and deities, my own enemy. The will I follow is the only will we have.

What should I say? How should I move my face to express feeling or thought? I know not yet I do, in accord to the best of my judgement I have the will to do freely.

However there will always be a consequence which plays a larger role in consciousness, because like all results and reactions, meaning and accuracy is skeptically formed.

Conflict and opposites...yeah.
As the old symbol of yin and yang....around and around we go.

And without the interaction, are we not like moons that have lost their orbit?...no more circling...no more ebb and wane.

Without the draw and pull, we have but one definitive direction.
Would that end of that direction be....what?

Having your own will does seem a contradiction.
And so we have many threads on whether or not we even have freewill.
(We do)

But what is freewill if we have not the will to surrender it?...now and then.

 

[Orias]

Conflict and opposites...yeah.
As the old symbol of yin and yang....around and around we go.

And without the interaction, are we not like moons that have lost their orbit?...no more circling...no more ebb and wane.

Without the draw and pull, we have but one definitive direction.
Would that end of that direction be....what?

Having your own will does seem a contradiction.
And so we have many threads on whether or not we even have freewill.
(We do)

But what is freewill if we have not the will to surrender it?...now and then.

Yin and Yang, Wu and Wei

They all resemble a coin that benefits from a toss. Regardless of the cycle that makes them orbit, without anything to revolve around they are no longer a moon...or satellite.

To surrender our own will, is to abolish a higher will. With my reigns held tightly, I am merely holding on to see what happens when we let go.

From what I have observed, I'm not too big a fan.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Conflict and opposites...yeah.
As the old symbol of yin and yang....around and around we go.

And without the interaction, are we not like moons that have lost their orbit?...no more circling...no more ebb and wane.

Without the draw and pull, we have but one definitive direction.
Would that end of that direction be....what?

The Tao/God that is beyond words, the indivisible Tao whose unity is obscured by the mortal mind that conceptually divides it into yin and yang.

So long as you continue to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the garden of Eden remains hidden.

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

So long as you continue to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the garden of Eden remains hidden.

Well explained! as usual.

Love & rgds

 

[Thief]

The Tao/God that is beyond words, the indivisible Tao whose unity is obscured by the mortal mind that conceptually divides it into yin and yang.

So long as you continue to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the garden of Eden remains hidden.

Not sure if I caught that.
If I am eating from the tree of knowledge....of good and evil...
would I not be standing in the garden?

Could be so....is not the serpent at our heel?

But I do think the garden event to be a unique occasion.
Once it served it's purpose, the location was simply dismantled.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Thief,

But I do think the garden event to be a unique occasion.
Once it served it's purpose, the location was simply dismantled.

Though friend ben will surely respond just sharing what is understood here.
The garden was/is/will remain. Garden is nothing but the state of bliss or sat-chit-ananda where the individual is no more that *I* but merged with THAT 8whole* or *source* or *consciousness* or * Tao* etc. But the desires of humans brought around by the mind or which have labelled as Satan that changes the perception or scenario or probably you are suffering to as the dismantling of the garden.

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Not sure if I caught that.
If I am eating from the tree of knowledge....of good and evil...
would I not be standing in the garden?

Could be so....is not the serpent at our heel?

But I do think the garden event to be a unique occasion.
Once it served it's purpose, the location was simply dismantled.

No, the story is allegorical, and is meant to explain the confusion and adverse effects created by the mind's trait of acquiring knowledge based on the dualistic subject - object/good - evil perception which was passed on to the all human descendants.

And so the Garden of Eden is just another concept for paradise, heaven, enlightenment, nirvana, state of pure consciousness, non-duality.

Oh and fwiw, there were two trees in the center of the garden, one was the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the other was the tree of life.

Since two trees can't both be the center, the solution lies in the symbolic meaning, the roots of the two trees are shared at the center, with the tree of life growing upwards to the spiritual heights and the tree of knowledge of good and evil growing downwards with its fruit in the material realms.

The fruit of the downwards growing tree leads to mortality, and the upwards growing tree leads to immortality.

 

[Thief]

Well...in some points literal...some points metaphor.

The garden event would be the alteration of Man's mind and body...literally.
Eve is a clone. She would have no navel.
Adam was given his twin sister for a bride.

Now if you prefer to think of that 'rib' as a genetic sample...fine.
But to say the event was a metaphor for 'something else'?......nay.
Man stepped out of the garden....altered.

The trees of the garden are allegorical.....yeah.
Partaking of fruit and to have your eyes opened?....
sounds more like smoking marijuana.
And such could be the case.
Who says the tree of knowledge had to be an apple?

The tree of life could be more literal than you think.
It's been noted scientifically, we have the potential to live much longer.
It's just chemistry.
If the right ingredients could be taken, longevity is acquired.
Live forever?....probably not.
But in the garden Adam lived a very long time.
Ideal conditions for the sake of the specimen?....looks that way.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Your take in interesting Thief, there are many ways one can interpret the garden of Eden story, and it takes on a meaning appropriate for the reader's present understanding.

 

[waitasec]

satan didn't get into the garden...
satan didn't tempt anyone
a crafty talking snake did...