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How did the Dark Ages begin and what occured?

sooda

Veteran Member
Blaming Arabs and Jews for the slave trade seems a tad to convenient!!

Read the link.
Slavery in medieval Europe - sources.com
https://www.sources.com/SSR/Docs/SSRW-Slavery_in_Medieval_Europe.htm
Slavery in medieval Europe was so common that the Roman Catholic Church repeatedly prohibited it'or at least the export of Christian slaves to non-Christian lands was prohibited at, for example, the Council of Koblenz in 922, the Council of London in 1102, and the Council of Armagh in 1171. [10]
 

sooda

Veteran Member
If I may, peoples of Europe are no different from migrating horsemen and tribesmen before Feudalism, Farming, Manorialism, or Serfdom. That's how Vandals get all the way to Tunisia and Visigoths to Spain, and they were Eastern European. The last of these may be the Magyar Hungarians coming to Hungary in 800 ad.

Is that why there was always a general ban on slavetrading by the Pope? Europe actually does not allow slavetrading.

The Pope only banned selling Christian slaves in non Christian lands.

Slavery in Medieval Ireland | dbsirishstudies
https://dbsirishstudies.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/slavery-in-medieval-ireland
Jan 22, 2013 · Slavery was an integral part of Irish society throughout its medieval history. Slavery and hostage-taking were rampant for the Irish and Vikings during the period. This was abundantly clear as we took a tour of the National Museum, as there were skulls of slaves.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Blaming Arabs and Jews for the slave trade seems a tad to convenient!!
How is it blaming anyone for the slave trade? Slavery and indeed slave trade existed during the Middle Ages, it existed in Ancient times. It existed during the early modern era even. No one's hands are entirely clean, if you want to get really pedantic.
It's just stating a fact that slave trade was a thing. :shrug:
Also I think Vikings are a known "cause" of Medieval Slavery.
Here a quick rundown of the History of Slavery.
History of slavery - Wikipedia
 
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74x12

Well-Known Member
My understanding is that ALL literature was essentially destroyed, and that the transformation that occured in Europe would be comparable to a society that was essentially brilliantly evolved, into an illiterate culture entirely separated from the previous knowledge it had. My understanding is that during the Dark Ages, people were so stupid, they practically lost all cognitive skills, and returned to a sort of caveman state.

My understanding is that this all changed after Christian Crusaders entered into Spain and captured a certain city that had a library that held more books than the entirety of Europe had, and that after this, Europe re-entered a second age, and learned all over again what had been lost previously.

So who were these monsters that took down and destroyed Europe for about 1000 years? How did they do it, and what can we learn from it.

...Thanks in advance for your contributions to this thread. :)
There weren't very many notorious monsters hell bent on burning books and destroying knowledge. It was gradual and basically an unintended consequence of the decline of the Roman empire. The illiterate "barbarian" rulers that replaced the Romans just weren't as interested in books or literacy. The education of the average nobleman was to learn to hunt, fight and maybe a few languages such as Latin. But not to read or write it. These new rulers were chosen based on fighting ability and ruthlessness to rule. Not on their education.

As I said, the replacement of the Roman rulers with barbarian rulers was gradual. The barbarian tribes wanted to be a part of the Roman empire. The Romans granted tribes land on their borders to stop other barbarian tribes from invading. The "Feudal system" of government was actually a Roman governmental system. The barbarian tribes adopted it when they came into Roman lands. The Germanic tribes themselves previously went by a tribal system of governance.

People should be grateful that monks in monasteries preserved knowledge by copying books even if they were uninterested in educating the common people.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Meh there is some overlap. :shrug:
Not really. The Renaissance began in around the 1420's in Italy. The only areas the Ottoman Empire had control of or was encroaching on at that time were the former holdings of the Byzantine Empire and the southern Slavic nations (plus Albania), none of which ever experienced the Dark Ages or the Renaissance (both of which were uniquely Western European phenomena).
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
My understanding is that ALL literature was essentially destroyed, and that the transformation that occured in Europe would be comparable to a society that was essentially brilliantly evolved, into an illiterate culture entirely separated from the previous knowledge it had. My understanding is that during the Dark Ages, people were so stupid, they practically lost all cognitive skills, and returned to a sort of caveman state.

My understanding is that this all changed after Christian Crusaders entered into Spain and captured a certain city that had a library that held more books than the entirety of Europe had, and that after this, Europe re-entered a second age, and learned all over again what had been lost previously.

So who were these monsters that took down and destroyed Europe for about 1000 years? How did they do it, and what can we learn from it.

...Thanks in advance for your contributions to this thread. :)


I don't think ALL literature was destroyed during the middle ages. We have lots of material going all the way beck to the first century and beyond. Perhaps you were just using hyperbole for effect?
In fact, your next paragraph contradicts your statement.that all literature was destroyed. Even if you were only talking about Europe, Spain is a part of Europe.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think ALL literature was destroyed during the middle ages. We have lots of material going all the way beck to the first century and beyond. Perhaps you were just using hyperbole for effect?
In fact, your next paragraph contradicts your statement.that all literature was destroyed. Even if you were only talking about Europe, Spain is a part of Europe.
Isn't there like entire classes in English Lit graduate (Uni) courses specifically dedicated to Medieval Literature? I suppose a lot of it was based on the oral tradition and was written down much later. But I don't understand why people picture the Dark Ages as a giant bonfire of vanities, if you will.

I thought it was mostly neglected or forgotten art/architecture/literature etc, not knowledge literally sought out and then smashed to pieces? Or did that actually happen during the Early Middle Ages?
 
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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Isn't there like entire classes in English Lit graduate (Uni) courses specifically dedicated to Medieval Literature? I suppose a lot of it was based on the oral tradition and was written down much later. But I don't understand why people picture the Dark Ages as a giant bonfire of vanities, if you will.

I thought it was mostly neglected or forgotten art/architecture/literature etc, not knowledge literally sought out and then smashed to pieces? Or did that actually happen during the Early Middle Ages?

I am far from being very knowledgeable about that period, but, yes, I think the Dark Ages was early medieval
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I am far from being very knowledgeable about that period, but, yes, I think the Dark Ages was early medieval
Well I know the Dark Ages generally refers to the Early Middle (Medieval) Ages. But it's more used to describe issues with the economy, culture and politics of the era. And because there's not a whole lot of historical documentation from the era, making it "dark."
I don't recall ever learning that the Europeans of the era were particularly responsible for the destruction of knowledge. More like a general ignorance emerged rather than the populous image of Churches coming in and wrecking **** up. I suppose there would have been some collateral damage due to various battles.

Hmm, I think I feel a study session is coming my way, because now I'm curious.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
My understanding is that ALL literature was essentially destroyed, and that the transformation that occured in Europe would be comparable to a society that was essentially brilliantly evolved, into an illiterate culture entirely separated from the previous knowledge it had. My understanding is that during the Dark Ages, people were so stupid, they practically lost all cognitive skills, and returned to a sort of caveman state.

My understanding is that this all changed after Christian Crusaders entered into Spain and captured a certain city that had a library that held more books than the entirety of Europe had, and that after this, Europe re-entered a second age, and learned all over again what had been lost previously.

So who were these monsters that took down and destroyed Europe for about 1000 years? How did they do it, and what can we learn from it.

...Thanks in advance for your contributions to this thread. :)

The 5 Major Causes Of The Dark Ages
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Well I know the Dark Ages generally refers to the Early Middle (Medieval) Ages. But it's more used to describe issues with the economy, culture and politics of the era. And because there's not a whole lot of historical documentation from the era, making it "dark."
I don't recall ever learning that the Europeans of the era were particularly responsible for the destruction of knowledge. More like a general ignorance emerged rather than the populous image of Churches coming in and wrecking **** up. I suppose there would have been some collateral damage due to various battles.

Hmm, I think I feel a study session is coming my way, because now I'm curious.

The 5 Major Causes Of The Dark Ages
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
My understanding is that ALL literature was essentially destroyed, and that the transformation that occured in Europe would be comparable to a society that was essentially brilliantly evolved, into an illiterate culture entirely separated from the previous knowledge it had. My understanding is that during the Dark Ages, people were so stupid, they practically lost all cognitive skills, and returned to a sort of caveman state.

My understanding is that this all changed after Christian Crusaders entered into Spain and captured a certain city that had a library that held more books than the entirety of Europe had, and that after this, Europe re-entered a second age, and learned all over again what had been lost previously.

So who were these monsters that took down and destroyed Europe for about 1000 years? How did they do it, and what can we learn from it.

...Thanks in advance for your contributions to this thread. :)
As far as I can tell, every statement in your post was wrong. Impressive.
 
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