How did we determine that God is the good one and Satan is the evil one?

[InChrist]

So essentially Satan not being cruel and evil is simply further proof of just how cruel and evil he really is?

To be fair to you, we have radically different ideas about what Satan is from the get go. Comparing my Satan and your Satan is probably a case of comparing apples and oranges.

The Bible is the source that reveals the existence and nature of satan and according to the scriptures satan is a deceiver. Just as con artists with evil intentions come across as something other than they are to reach their ends so does saten, only he is much more masterful at this deception than any human being.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11;13-15

 

[Erebus]

The Bible is the source that reveals the existence and nature of satan and according to the scriptures satan is a deceiver. Just as con artists with evil intentions come across as something other than they are to reach their ends so does saten, only he is much more masterful at this deception than any human being.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11;13-15

Sorry, but when it comes to the nature of gods, angels and demons I don't take biblical scripture as gospel (badum tish).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Bible is the source that reveals the existence and nature of satan and according to the scriptures satan is a deceiver. Just as con artists with evil intentions come across as something other than they are to reach their ends so does saten, only he is much more masterful at this deception than any human being.

And you think that your powers of perception are so amazing that you've been able to see through the evil intentions of a being you say "is much more masterful at this deception than any human being" so that unlike most of humanity, you have figured out the truth.

I'm not sure whether your position is insanely arrogant or just poorly thought out.

 

[InChrist]

And you think that your powers of perception are so amazing that you've been able to see through the evil intentions of a being you say "is much more masterful at this deception than any human being" so that unlike most of humanity, you have figured out the truth.

I'm not sure whether your position is insanely arrogant or just poorly thought out.

No, it is not my powers of perception. I was absolutelu blind and a puppet manipulated by the strings of satan. It was Jesus' power which saved my and opened my eyes to the truth.

 

[McBell]

No, it is not my powers of perception. I was absolutelu blind and a puppet manipulated by the strings of satan. It was Jesus' power which saved my and opened my eyes to the truth.

um...
this makes it sound as though you are blaming your arrogance on Jesus.

Now since I am fairly sure that is not what you mean...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, it is not my powers of perception. I was absolutelu blind and a puppet manipulated by the strings of satan. It was Jesus' power which saved my and opened my eyes to the truth.

It was the power of someone or something you concluded was Jesus. You just finished explaining how Satan is more skilled in deception than any human being. Don't you think he'd have the ability to convince you that he was Jesus?

 

[InChrist]

um...
this makes it sound as though you are blaming your arrogance on Jesus.

Now since I am fairly sure that is not what you mean...

I think you know what I mean, but I don't know what you mean.

 

[InChrist]

It was the power of someone or something you concluded was Jesus. You just finished explaining how Satan is more skilled in deception than any human being. Don't you think he'd have the ability to convince you that he was Jesus?

Yes, satan is more powerful than humans, but it is minor compared to Jesus Christ who makes Himself known to anyone who sincerely seeks Him. It is possible for satan to attempt to appear as Jesus to those involved in unbiblical practices, but there are ways to test the spirits according to the scriptures for anyone who wants to abide by God's word..

 

[InChrist]

Sorry, but when it comes to the nature of gods, angels and demons I don't take biblical scripture as gospel (badum tish).

Then where do you get your information?

 

[Iti oj]

Yes, satan is more powerful than humans, but it is minor compared to Jesus Christ who makes Himself known to anyone who sincerely seeks Him. It is possible for satan to attempt to appear as Jesus to those involved in unbiblical practices, but there are ways to test the spirits according to the scriptures for anyone who wants to abide by God's word..

and what happens if the scripture was handed down from Satan? The Devil is never any more evil then when he appears to be the angle of light after all///

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How did we determine that God is the good one and Satan is the evil one?

Because society pounds it into us that the Bible is the "word of God", and pressures us into not considering that Satan isn't bad. I think that if anyone with an open mind gives the Bible an objective consideration, they will come to the conclusion that it is Yahweh who is evil.

 

[nazz]

Because society pounds it into us that the Bible is the "word of God", and pressures us into not considering that Satan isn't bad. I think that if anyone with an open mind gives the Bible an objective consideration, they will come to the conclusion that it is Yahweh who is evil.

I would say it not that simple, not that black and white. I would say there is a character in the Bible who commits what I consider to be evil and that character is called "God" and "LORD" (YHVH). But other times those terms/titles refer to a being who is indeed all good. In the Old Testament Satan is described as serving the malevolent deity. In the NT they are pretty much the same thing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I would say it not that simple, not that black and white. I would say there is a character in the Bible who commits what I consider to be evil and that character is called "God" and "LORD" (YHVH). But other times those terms/titles refer to a being who is indeed all good. In the Old Testament Satan is described as serving the malevolent deity. In the NT they are pretty much the same thing.

I don't see any part of the Bible where Yahweh is "all good". He has a split personality. The point is that Satan never committed such horrible crimes in the Bible that Yahweh did. The only people he killed, as I recall, where Job's family but that was with Yahweh's permission.

 

[nazz]

I don't see any part of the Bible where Yahweh is "all good". He has a split personality.

OR there are two deities going by the same name. That at least is the Gnostic perspective.

The point is that Satan never committed such horrible crimes in the Bible that Yahweh did. The only people he killed, as I recall, where Job's family but that was with Yahweh's permission.

Right. His role is that of divine prosecutor in the heavenly court. His job is to prove the unworthiness of man. He is still seen to this day as an obedient angel in Judaism. All that changes in the NT (really it began to change in the intertestamental period).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

OR there are two deities going by the same name. That at least is the Gnostic perspective.

I realize that, as a consideration. I know what Gnostics believe but I don't share that view.

Right. His role is that of divine prosecutor in the heavenly court. His job is to prove the unworthiness of man. He is still seen to this day as an obedient angel in Judaism. All that changes in the NT (really it began to change in the intertestamental period).

I'm well aware of the development of the Abrahamic version(s) of Satan.

 

[nazz]

I realize that, as a consideration. I know what Gnostics believe but I don't share that view.

Just giving another perspective--my own. I understand you and others look at it differently.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Just giving another perspective--my own. I understand you and others look at it differently.

I considered Gnosticism, but since I no longer believe in any creator deity, it doesn't have much to offer me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, satan is more powerful than humans, but it is minor compared to Jesus Christ who makes Himself known to anyone who sincerely seeks Him. It is possible for satan to attempt to appear as Jesus to those involved in unbiblical practices, but there are ways to test the spirits according to the scriptures for anyone who wants to abide by God's word..

You're just pushing the question back one step. You say that you know that you're not being deceived by Satan because of the Bible... well, how do you know that the Bible itself isn't part of some deception by Satan?

Do you think that you're savvy enough to avoid being deceived by the greatest deceiver in existence? At some point in the chain, you'd have to rely on your own error-prone judgement.

 

[nazz]

I considered Gnosticism, but since I no longer believe in any creator deity, it doesn't have much to offer me.

By "creator deity" are you referring to the Demiurge? Because Gnostics believe in emanation, not creation, in terms of how things originally came to be.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

By "creator deity" are you referring to the Demiurge? Because Gnostics believe in emanation, not creation, in terms of how things originally came to be.

Yes, I don't believe in any sort of demiurge figure. In terms of the wider views of the Cosmos, I would be a pantheist. I believe the universe creates and sustains itself.