How did you get to your present path

[robtex]

I wanted to get a background on those on this forum. Kinda of a how-you-got-to-where you are at in religion. And the path taken.

I can use myself as an example. My parents divorced when I was very very young. My mother was an agnostic and as such religion was never rarely in my childhood. As a matter of fact I went to christian church sometimes on my own to see what it was like when I could drive.

I was agostic too not so much by choice but out of ignorance. I just knew nothing about religion. I tried to become a Christian for the first time when I was about 18. I started to read the Bible starting with Genesis and went to college when I was 19.

In college I sat in and later partipated (though poorly at the time) in the religious debatees on campus. My agnostism returned this time because of the debates as opposed to ignornance. I was a memeber of a local church --non denominational but dropped out when they kicked out a memeber for having an siezure. They blamed his siezure on a demon and kicked him out and I was gone the next day. I refused to speak to any of the church leaders for the next four years which was time I graduated.

I was studying martial arts in college a lot and there were a few taoists and buddist that I trained with. My main training partner was an atheist. I remember thinking that there was no way all these people good people were going to hell for being buddist taoists and atheists. It was about that time I gave up Christanity and than just had no religion to follow.

I just ignored religion again for about 10 years and than I fell in love. I moved to California to be with her started combining our assests settling in and she came to me and said she was dumping me one day ....and she had cheated on me with a few guys over the last two years.

I was crushed and dealth with it by doing two things....dating all the time....and reading a lot. I read alot of philosphy ...ton of Kant and more amatuer authors ....and eventually started reading religon again. I took a spirtual quiz at one point ....like the one Maize posted on a thread on here....so long ago may have been the same one...and UU came out on top.

So I read about and loved it. I felt like I had been a UU for years and never knew it. Like when u know you are something but don't have a word for it. I read about it for about a year and than converted...Well I didn't really convert....I had nothing to convert from but I became a UU. That was about 18 months ago.

That is my background...what is yours and how did you start out compared to where you are today?

 

[Mister Emu]

dropped out when they kicked out a memeber for having an siezure. They blamed his siezure on a demon and kicked him out and I was gone the next day.

That is horrible. If he was truly(which for some reason I doubt) possesed than they needed to help this person by excorsizing the evil creature.

That is my background...what is yours and how did you start out compared to where you are today?

Well let's see, I've always been a nominal Christian, but never really a practicing one. At the age of eleven I started smoking bud(marijuana) by 15 I was selling a little on the side and at 16 I was selling enough to smoke an ounce a day as well as have some money to spend.

I had always been knowledgable about the Bible and Christianity, but I was a hypocrite, never practicing what I literally preached to my friends(I was our little crew's chaplain of sorts). I then read The Glorius Appearing by Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins. During and after I read this the Lord intervened and I stopped messing with cigs, alcohol, and bud right then.

It's been about half a year, and over the time I have refined my views and understanding of the Bible, and always trying to learn more and expand my horizons and enlightenment.

 

[jewscout]

I've already talked about this at great length and sense i can't post the link because some aren't members of the theist forum i'll just copy past it.

Some here on the theist forum have asked me to relate my conversion process so here goes. (i'll warn you this could take a while)
Well for starters i was never part of any faith before this. Oh i'd been to church a few times as a kid but aside from funerals and weddings really hadn't been in a religious service since i was like 13 (i'm 23 now). I really didn't like Christianity, mainly because i don't believe in much of the docterine and because of my own personal experience in churches. So i wasn't really a part of any faith, i guess i was some sorta agnostic quasi-deist or whatever. When i went off to college i spent alot of time investigating different religions and faiths from the multiple denominations of Christianity, to Islam, wiccan, new age stuff etc. but could never find a faith that i felt fit along w/ my own personal views. Now i should also note that during this whole time i never once looked into Judaism, i don't know why i didn't i just didn't. I was a very questioning sort of person. At this time of course i was doing the young man thing, going out, partying, meeting girls all that good stuff. In some cases i often found myself dating religious girls, all of whom were christian. Man let me tell you short of a tranqulizer gun and a net there was no way they were going to get me in a church for sunday school. Some tried to witness to me but i wasn't hearing it, i knew what i knew about christianity, it's a fine religion but it's not a religion for me. I believe that religion is a very personal thing, there is no one "right" religion for everyone.
Now i came home to attend school closer to home, and since i was home i also had to get a job . So i wound up working at Ukrop's, a local grocery store chain which is very family and christian oriented. It was there i met Rachel. I remember the first time i saw her the thought that ran through my mind was "Dude you don't have a snowballs chance in hell just keep on going." I mean she was amazing, drop dead beautiful. I don't think i've met a better looking girl. And to top it all off she was really really cool, smart, funny, laid back, and weird like me . She was also Jewish (now i know what you're all think 'oh that's it its about a girl' well it's a little more complicated than that keep reading ). When i first met her i was dating someone else and we were having problems but i wasn't one to give up on something so fast, i was trying to make it work. But after a while i think we both knew that it wasn't going to work so we broke it off. I spent several months simply being single and then i finally worked up the testicular fortitude to ask her our. As you can probably guess she said yes :jiggy: . Now i didn't jump into the Judaism thing right off the bat. I told her my own beliefs and that i was not going to suddenly convert to please her, and she respected that. However i took it upon myself to investigate the Jewish faith in an effort to better understand her since she was a religious person and i really knew nothing about Judaism at all except that you can't eat pork and the whole circumcision thing. I began reading books on basic judaism, investigating the different aspects of the religion and it's beliefs and i found myself agreeing with many of the beliefs in the faith and the fact that you could interpret pretty much everything in the religion your own way w/o really stepping on alot of docterine. Then a funny thing happened. I found myself not reading it to better understand her but for my own sake. I was slowly becoming absorbed in it. But i don't think i truely felt a "calling" to the Jewish faith until after dating her for about 7 or 8 months when i went over to her house for Shabbat dinner of Friday night. For those that don't know they light 2 candles and do prayers, ritually wash their hands, say a blessing of challa bread and then we grub down which is followed by the after dinner blessings. I really had no intention or desire for a spiritual experience i just wanted to finally sit down and get a chance to speak to her folks which i hadn't done yet. But something else happened. I can't describe it to you in any words but i felt a warm sensation wash over me, a feeling of completeness that i had never experienced in my life. It was truely something otherworldly and it just felt right.
Cont. on next post.....Now at this point i started to really really get into the faith. Trying to get myself invited back over every friday night. I started to study Torah as well. By the time Simchat Torah had rolled around i had my own Tanach to read from each week. I started to identify myself with the religion, this was my faith too. I started keeping kosher and observing the Sabbath. I finally spoke to her dad about conversion, i can't deny an element of it is my desire to marry Rachel but i can't say that i'm JUST doing it for her either. He advised me if i was going to convert i should go to the Modern Orthodox shul in town, Kennesth Beth Israel. I also had to realize that an orthodox conversion was not going to be anything easy, any conversion to Judaism isn't easy but orthodoxy more so. I've been attending Shabbat services for about a month now and i'm going to different classes on Jewish history and on the Siddur (the prayer book).

 

[robtex]

Wow Jewscout that is quite a story. I was hoping to get your story on this thread. I saw a person convert to reform Judism before from Christantiy (non denominational) and man that ain't easy. It is a very committed religion to belong to. Seemed like the guy studied most the time...was always reading up and such. The rabbi that was gonna help him with his conversion apparently had a step-by-step plan and he had to pass tests on Jewish knowledge for each one for the total conversion to take place. It took over a year.

 

[jewscout]

Wow Jewscout that is quite a story. I was hoping to get your story on this thread. I saw a person convert to reform Judism before from Christantiy (non denominational) and man that ain't easy. It is a very committed religion to belong to. Seemed like the guy studied most the time...was always reading up and such. The rabbi that was gonna help him with his conversion apparently had a step-by-step plan and he had to pass tests on Jewish knowledge for each one for the total conversion to take place. It took over a year.

Yeah so u can imagine how much fun orthodox conversion is going to be:sarcastic But i like the rabbi and he's young so hopefully he'll be willing to make exceptions for me...like driving on shabbat since there's no shuls anywhere near my place.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

(Edited for coherency)

A very interesting question! (I always appreciate where others are coming from, so that I might better know them.)

As have many forum members here, I grew up in a very church-going household. I loved the stories of Jesus and the beautiful choir music, although I wasn't yet old enough to understand much else. The church I primarily grew up in was especially blessed. Because my mom was working, or chronically ill, she wasn't able to see that my little sister and I were being mentally abused by my father. They were able guide her to see what was happening and to have the resources to survive with my father gone from the household.

Once we moved from rural S.C. back to Columbia, we gravitated to the extremely right-wing and conservative church that my parents had originally attended, when we'd lived in that part of the state. I was socially unaware enough not to know what was happening, but most of the church shunned us for my mom having divorced my dad. They preached a number of things that I was uncomfortable with, and I (again, lacking any social skills) questioned loudly. This would get me shushed by my sister, who wanted to fit in, and ignored by almost everyone else. (Although I was told later that my mom had recieved several warnings about me.)

About five years later, our family happened to move nearby a small, Evangelical Lutheran church. It took us a bit to get used to the concept of having a woman pastor, but if the church had consisted of her, solely, I would have never left the pews. (Unfortunately, there were also a few rabble-rousing racists and anti-femininsts in the pews, so it wasn't as inviting a place as it might have been.)

Finally, we moved to MI, and joined the church that my paternal grandmother had attended all her life, my dad had attended most of his life, and my grandfather had strenuously avoided attending in all his life. My mom threw herself right into serving the church, as she'd done in S.C. She organized the church library and helped out the pastor and became a Stephan minister. My sister joined the choir and was widely regarded for her grace and beauty. I tried to do the same. I helped my mom with the books and tried to start up a Youth Group. (So that I could join. Not too many people my age there.) Still, I must radiate some bad vibes, because I managed to get the gossipy members angry that I was seen at school with people of "the wrong religion" (Lutherans! Wiccans! Even-*gasp* Catholics! The horror!) and people who expressed romantic interest in the gender that they represented. So, even keeping quiet about where I differed in my belief system from that particular church didn't save me, and my sister adamantly told me I was not to join the choir. (Although this could've been because I've got a lousy singing voice. Hmmm...)

About 4 years back, the family had moved here to Iowa, and although I still claimed to be Christian in my heart, I could never summon the motivation to go to church. When I did, I found that the words to the hymns I'd sing were like ashes on my tongue. I didn't believe them, but I wanted to believe.

Around that time, I took a weekend course on shamanism. I was actually unnerved by all the things that I'd never been taught that I 'remembered'. I was also unnerved that I was seen, by the person teaching the class and those others taking it with me, as an individual of worth whose opinion not only had a right to be expressed but would be valued.

The things that I did in that class, though, tended to not be the stuff that I could express to a fellow Christian very easily. ("What I mean when I say that that piece of fluorite says that you're beautiful is that...") Although my capacity for faith was growing, it was no longer finding a spiritually fulfilling outlet that coincided with my personal beliefs.

If I've got a 'religion' now, it's most likely paganism. (At least, according to that 'What Religion are You?' quiz that I can never find the link to. Arrrrgh, where is it when you need it?!)

The odd thing is, I've got a closer relationship with Jesus now, celebrating his kindness, than I used to as a Christian.

I suppose that just goes to show what an odd world this is. I had to take a different 'path' to get further 'ahead' in my own spirituality, but another person, sticking to their own path, could be perfectly happy and fulfilled by never straying.
I know that that last bit may not be on topic, but I just love humans!

 

[robtex]

(Edited for coherency)

A very interesting question! (I always appreciate where others are coming from, so that I might better know them.)




The things that I did in that class, though, tended to not be the stuff that I could express to a fellow Christian very easily. ("What I mean when I say that that piece of fluorite says that you're beautiful is that...") Although my capacity for faith was growing, it was no longer finding a spiritually fulfilling outlet that coincided with my personal beliefs.

If I've got a 'religion' now, it's most likely paganism. (At least, according to that 'What Religion are You?' quiz that I can never find the link to. Arrrrgh, where is it when you need it?!)

The odd thing is, I've got a closer relationship with Jesus now, celebrating his kindness, than I used to as a Christian.

I suppose that just goes to show what an odd world this is. I had to take a different 'path' to get further 'ahead' in my own spirituality, but another person, sticking to their own path, could be perfectly happy and fulfilled by never straying.
I know that that last bit may not be on topic, but I just love humans!

On the second paragraph that starts with "the things I did in that class....I got lost could you please reiterate that one for me?

When you say you are close to Jesus is he a literal man in heaven an allgorical figure or just something you use to relate to Christanity with.

So you don't have a coven or group you belong to? Do your parents know you are heading towards an earth based religion and if so how are they taking it?

Do you consider yourself a pagen today or just not sure but leaning that way?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

On the second paragraph that starts with "the things I did in that class....I got lost could you please reiterate that one for me?

Oh, I do apologize. I didn't make that very clear. Things like learning to talk with crystals and plants, learning to feel another persons' energy field, sacred drumming, and the use of medicine wheels. (The last is kind of like a meditation... hard to describe.) I should remember to say that not all shamans are pagan.

When you say you are close to Jesus is he a literal man in heaven an allgorical figure or just something you use to relate to Christanity with.

The way I percieve him is as a person (or God) who taught and practiced infinite compassion. To me, he is an easily accessible (meaning I don't have to struggle to 'understand' him) symbol of the divine masculine. (Much as, when some other people are searching for a symbol of the divine feminine, they turn to Mary.) Jesus is only one of what I percieve as many gods and goddesses that I consider sacred. In their lifetimes, many pagans dedicate themselves to one or many god or goddess that they feel most callled to. I haven't felt 'called' by any specific goddess or god, yet, so I continue to search, content that I might never find an answer, because I enjoy the searching.

So you don't have a coven or group you belong to? Do your parents know you are heading towards an earth based religion and if so how are they taking it?

I am actually helping to found a group here in my area. Oddly enough, it's with my mom's help. (She has been struggling with her own religous path, too, and though hers has led her through Buddhism and Zen, she seems to have wound up in about the same place as me, spiritually.) My dad, after I talked with him about going to the shamanism class, was convinced I was a Satanist. (I'll give him credit, though, he would try bringing it into the conversation jovially: "So, are you still worshipping Satan?") He's recently gotten remarried, and I think that his new wife (whom I adore, she's wonderful) has kicked some sense into him. It's sad, though, since just when he might be willing to accept the idea that a Christian can be a shaman, I decide to go on the record as being a pagan. He says he's "very familiar with Wicca, having watched 'Charmed.' " That makes me a bit worried.)

Do you consider yourself a pagen today or just not sure but leaning that way?

You know, I didn't know until I was responding to this thread and was discussing it with my mother. I noted how healing some forum members had been on my perception of certain religions. (Lightkeeper, Hope and so many others for Christianity, SOGFPP and so many others for Catholicism, and the list goes on and on.) I hadn't been wanting to limit myself to a 'label' of one religion, but now I wonder if that might be a good way to go. That way, perhaps people who have a certain perception of pagans might find it easier to deal with the subject, having a (albiet pixelated) face to put with the label.

Thanks for such insightful questions! I love threads that make one think about what one is doing!

 

[Watcher]

How the Watcher came to her religion....
I was born and raised in Ohio (my father still lives there). When I was one though my parents got divorced. Throughout my childhood, going to the Methodist church was just a once in a blue moon thing with my grandfather and maybe an easter or two with my mom (I can still remember my first communion, I held the grape juice in my mouth for at least a half-hour before I could spit it out outside....I thought I would puke if I tried swallowing it ...jeez, the watcher rejected the "blood of christ"). When I was in the fourth grade my mom moved me to Michigan (along with my step-father and their 2 kids [at the time] which is now their four kids). In Michigan we started going to this Baptist Church. The people there were so nice, and everybody seemed to want to help you grow in your religion. I even joined Awana, which I had thought was a blast. [I will admit, Veggie Tales were awesome:jiggy: ]. I could never really fit in at the church though, I had a lot of questions about religion. On top of that, I have never made friends easily, so I never really could fit in anywhere. Within two years of moving to Michigan we had been moved again to South Dakota. My mother had been pregnant during the move, so it was awhile before we went back to church. First, we tried a Methodist Church. The pastor was just and the sermons were even worse. Then, we tried a Luthern for a while. I never really got into that either. I stopped going to church all together. I began questioning many things, and started thinking about the different religions (take a look at my web-page). My mom finally dumped the drunken, can't hold a job, cheating, good for nothing husband of hers (whew, okay, I am done venting). She moved us to a town not very far away, where we moved into (gulp*) the parsonage of a Luthern Church......:bonk: I haven't been their once yet..... I had gradually distanced myself from Christianity (that article, "No Longer Christian" posted by pah (i think) spoke exactly what I had been feeling). I began exploring many different religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, and others. Not long ago, I realized that I was a UU, I believed that all religions could be paths to peace, and that their was no way a loving god would give us one chance around in life and send us to hell if we didn't pick his "favorite" religion out of a sea of beliefs. So, I am a Buddhist UU. I think about Jesus often though, and am wondering currently if he might work his way back into my heart and beliefs.....
The Watcher

 

[Lintu]

Hmm...how to make this quick :
Raised Southern Baptist...went there until about age 9 or 10
Then went to Methodist church until 14ish
Stayed non-denominationally Christian for awhile.
Started at a Jesuit university...converted to Catholicism (I liked the way it made me feel closer to God)
Rejected Catholicism...my pro-choice and pro-gay rights beliefs were simply not compatible.
After that point...I began to lose faith in Christianity. I was raised with the idea that if you were a sinner, not baptized, member of a "pagan" religion, that you'd burn in eternal hellfire. That began to make no sense, since a good God wouldn't condemn people to hell for being born in a community that didn't traditionally practice Christianity (in my mind). I also rejected hell in general because I am no where near good enough to be able to avoid it myself, no matter how hard I try. I also couldn't believe in Jesus as a Messiah, based on things I have read in the Bible. I think that all religions are valid, but that you have to seek out what helps you feel closest to God (if you do happen to believe in a God or Gods or Goddesses or supreme force or the like). Christianity just didn't do that for me.

Lately, I have been very interested in Reform Judaism, mostly because I still do believe in the God I learned so much about in the Old Testament. I've actually studied Judaism for a really long time because I'm a big fan of the works of Chaim Potok (read The Chosen if you haven't already!). Tomorrow night I'm going to my first Shabbat service. I like Judaism because it seems like it incorporates God into daily life more so than most religions I've looked at. I also think that Jewish theology and philosophy is so true and insightful. Everything seems so well thought out.

 

[Master Vigil]

Wow, good question. How to put this into words, hmmm... I go where my feet take me, if the wind blows me in a different direction, I do not resist it. As with others here I have done extensive research into different religions. I was baptised, confirmed, and all that good stuff catholic. But they don't like people like me. They want people like me to see physchiatrists (Both a capuchin priest and a capuchin vocational director told me that). But not all, some are very good friends of mine. It is not the religion that defines a person, it is the person that defines the religion. So together with my shamanistic traits and my simplistic view of the universe. I became vigil, and from reading and practicism taoism and martial arts. I became vigil of the tao. Therefore, taoist vigil.

 

[cardero]

PART 1: THE EARLY YEARS

1966-1977-I am Catholic. I was baptized Catholic and named after the current priest residing over that church, years later I would legally change it to- just Patrick. I went to Sunday School and received my communion. It was my first time actually walking up and receiving communion though I must confess many years before, my older sister used to sneak her communion wafer back and share half with me. This was before our Church gave its members the choice to accept it in their hands. How she managed to keep my half of the host dry undetected I will never know.

1978-1980-I was an alter boy for about 2 years but was fired after getting caught adorning the priests robe and performing my own services while the priest was outside saying farewell to the parishioners. This embarrassing event would foreshadow me for the next 20 years. I completed Sunday School and took the confirmation name of Peter after the Apostle (it is also my father’s middle name).

1980-1981-I am still Catholic.

1981-1982-My mother and father divorced and we stopped going to the Catholic Church. I remember my mother telling me that she was excommunicated from the church because she divorced my father but this didn’t seem likely and I believe she may have just misplaced her faith.

.....to be continued

 

[robtex]

PART 1: THE EARLY YEARS



1978-1980-I was an alter boy for about 2 years but was fired after getting caught adorning the priests robe and performing my own services while the priest was outside saying farewell to the parishioners. This embarrassing event would foreshadow me for the next 20 years. I completed Sunday School and took the confirmation name of Peter after the Apostle (it is also my father’s middle name).

all hell that is so funny!!! How on earth do you get yourself into these messes Patrick. Between that and your snack break the the Jehovah witness meeting!!!

 

[cardero]

PART 2: THE EXPERIMENTAL YEARS

1982-1983- I am Jehovah's Witness (sort of)- A school friend of mine introduces me to the religious organization of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I attended a few meetings but due to the distance in residents and the fact that I did not know how to drive, the friendship eventually dissolves. I took commercial art in High School where I met my first atheist. My art teacher, Mr. Krause, unimpressed with my knowledge of religion, stands firm and tells me there is no GOD. I always thought that was incredible and to this day respect the man for his stance.

1984-1985-I am Baptist. I obtain a part time job with the state as a New York Thruway Toll Collector. A coworker hears about my search for GOD and tells me to come to her church. I attend a few services and I am quickly impressed with the gospel hymns and the strong conviction of the preachers.

1986-1989-I am In Love. I obtained my first girlfriend and for three years I set my religious preferences aside, when you are dating someone, religion sort of gets in the way and complicates a lot of issues. After a three year engagement and a wedding date planned, she has doubts about my part time position on the Thruway and my ability to provide and commit for the future and we break up bitterly two months before we are to be married. Three months after the breakup I am promoted to full time on the NYS Thruway. I am aware of the irony.

1990-1992-I am Episcopalian. The first breakup is always the hardest. I drown my sorrows in live jazz and white chocolate cheesecake (I highly recommend this combination). Another coworker introduces me to The Grace Episcopalian Church where I met my first homosexual priest Father John. As legend has it the first week Fr. John was performing mass he announced to the audience that he was homosexual and that he felt he should be up front and honest with his congregation, a few people got up and walked out but many stayed. I always thought that was incredible and to this day respect the man for his stance.

At the top floor of The Grace Episcopal Church they sponsored a soup kitchen which I volunteered my services. Many people volunteered for the soup kitchen including members from other churches. There was a very attractive Nicaraguan girl that I became friendly with who was a missionary from her country and belonged to the organization called the Church Of Latter Day Saints.

1993-1993- I am Mormon. After attending a few meetings of the Church Of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints I thought that I would tell this girl of my feelings and intentions. I explained that I wanted to marry her and would do anything to make that happen and she said that it would be best if she married within her own religion and I explained that concern would not be a problem but when it came time to choose a place to hold the wedding there were disagreements. She wanted to get married in The Temple and I thought a small wedding at Joe’s Barbecue Steak And Riblets would be more practical plus they had better buffet choices. She wasn’t impressed or inclined to agree.

....to be continued

 

[cardero]

PART 3: THE DESPARATE YEARS

1994-1995 I am ONE-After being introduced to a coworker over a discussion about astrology I am attracted to metaphysics and diligently take courses on meditation, spiritual development, kundalini, auras, past lives and healing. I attend many different mediums looking for some insightful indication of direction and a quick and simple reason of why I exist and what I should be doing. One psychic I visited could not continue her reading because she was too excited to meet me. Apparently I was Percy Bysshe Shelley in another lifetime and she insisted that I give her my autograph (she collected signatures from past life celebrities). Since I did not know French I could not oblige her

1996-1998-I am a Spiritual Scientist. I met a woman by the name of Rev. Freida Dvinge who was a minister for a Christian sect called The Universal Harmony Foundation and I admit I was curious about how she became ordained. She explained the Church’s teachings and what being a minister for the organization entailed and I immediately signed on. After two and a half years of intense study and hard work I finish my classes and was ordained as Rev. Patrick Cardero. It was a small ceremony, my mother was in attendance and she cried tears of joy. I looked back on those years as an alter boy and realized I had come full circle.

PART 4: HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD

1998-2000- I am introduced to GOD-A coworker of mine who was very spiritual read many unorthodox books an offered me a book from an author who apparently spoke to GOD. She said that the author wrote an angry letter to GOD and that GOD, through him, responded to him. I assured her that it was quite impossible to speak with GOD and politely refused to read the book. I couldn’t help but wonder if such a thing could be possible and I remembered the Biblical authors of the past and how they were able to document their relationship with GOD. This really intrigued me. So one day I cleared my thoughts and began a conversation with GOD. The conversation started with a few pages, a few pages turned into chapters and very soon I was committing time everyday to GOD where I would ask all the questions I ever wondered about in my life. Needless to say I was quite surprised and startled with the results. My inquiries had reached book proportions and it would take several months before I would decide what to do with this information.
.....to be continued

 

[cardero]

PART 5: REVELATIONS

2001-2002-I am a publisher. What does a person do with their own Bible inspired from a being claiming to be GOD? Though I could not personally deny that the conversations took place getting someone to believe me was and still is another matter entirely. There was a part of me that wanted to sit on it and forget about it. I was very reluctant to share this experience with anyone out of fear of ridicule and reserved telling only a few people who I knew I could trust. How was I even going to present this information? I looked into the aspects of how to get a book created and realized self-publishing was the way to go.

It was at this time that I met Rizza. Rizza was a part time collector at the NYS Thruway Toll Barrier and I admired her work ethics. It was our interest in movies that attracted us and in no time we were a couple. Both of us didn’t feel like getting married. Rizza was disenchanted with her first marriage and I just didn’t believe in it. Then something happened that changed both our minds.

2003-2004- I am a husband and a father. Rizza was pregnant for 3 months before she was aware that she was carrying and that meant that she required medical treatment immediately. Rizza had a biological disorder that had to be monitored closely by doctor’s to insure a healthy delivery. All tests proved positive and we found out the baby was to be a boy.
We were married by Rev. Freida (the same Reverend who ordained me) on February 2, 2003 (Ground Hog’s Day).

We decided to name the baby Kal-El Joseph Cardero.

Some people ask me how we finally arrived at our son’s name.
Parents usually name their children after someone that made an impact on their lives.
The two most memorable male personalities in my life were Superman and my father.


Kal-El, as most of you may or may not know, was the Kryptonian name given to the infant Superman before he crashed landed on earth to be adopted by Mr. and Mrs. Kent. A year after Kal-El’s birth I found out that Kal-El meant “sent from heaven”. I knew if I was going to have a son I thought, I probably would like him to have the qualities of strength and a consideration for all life with a sense of Truth and Justice. To be fair and honest.


Joseph Cardero was the Spanish name given to my father before he too crashed landed on earth also to be adopted by Mr. and Mrs. Kent. I knew if I was going to have a son, I probably would like him to have the qualities of my father. His instinctive coolness and his universal sense of humor.

Rizza started to contract 23 weeks into the pregnancy and she was hospitalized March 11 at Westchester Medical Center and remained under observation for the weekend. On March 17 (St. Patricks Day) Kal-El was born 1.2 lbs.

For those who have never had a baby brought into this world in such a way it’s kind of different from the infant who was born to the full term of 9 months.


Physical touching was sometimes difficult because the heat in the incubator had to be maintained at a constant temperature.
It was also an intricate process to hold the baby because for the duration of his stay he was hooked up to a respirator which was regulating his breathing. I remember there was a brief moment when he was off the respirator that Rizza was allowed to hold the child.
There would be many times when the nurses had to constantly interrupt our visits to administer medicine or change the IV bags or to even change the diapers.
I explain these events to you not to upset or make anyone feel uncomfortable but to explain to everyone that we did overcome these differences. We found other ways to touch our child. We were allowed to bring in a small recorder and play him classical music. Rizza was allowed to take his temperature and participate in other medical and paternal procedures. Speaking in front of Kal-El was encouraged by the staff so that the baby would become comfortable with our voices.
The staff at Westchester Medical Center watched over our son and provided him with the best medical and emotional care during the moments of our absence. They are to be commended not only for their professionalism but for their unending care and for balancing such a cautious line between these aspects.

Kal-El died on April 13, 2003

There were many people who were saddened or frustrated by the length of time that our son lived. They felt disappointed that they didn’t see him grow or evolve to his full potential. Rizza and I learned very early that there really isn’t a time limit defined to life and purpose. It’s kept us realistic and it is what has given us the advantage over matters concerning death.


Some people have expressed their concerns about us not being able to share our beliefs, our interests our hearts with our son because of the events that had taken place.

I think that this is a fair concern. After all………….
It was my father who taught me how to ride a bike.
It was my mother who taught me to draw.
It was my father who carried me bleeding, up to my room at the age of 5 when I accidentally shaved my forehead.
It was my mother who was always there for me during my proudest moments.


But I must be honest….
I’m not sorry I will never be able to teach my son to ride a bike
I do not regret the fact that my son will never draw me a picture
I am not sorry that I did not have the full opportunity like most parents, to care for their children.
And I do not regret not being able to attend any ceremonies he would have been in.


For three weeks Rizza and I were parents. Even through his passing we could not be more proud or feel more joyous than we did towards our son in those moments under those circumstances.


Joyce Maynard once said, “that it is not only children who grow but parents do too.”

I believe that many good things came out of this experience.
I would say that my son has completed a great Purpose in his life.
Kal-El has made us understand that there are many preparations necessary for parenthood and has made us more complete in accepting our roles as future parents.


Our son also showed Rizza and I that we are indeed a strong union and that when faced with life’s challenges we will always be there for each other and we will be able to see them through together.


And most importantly, our son has made evident the Truth that we have friends and relatives who will be there not only with support, but with love and understanding as well.
Kal-El Joseph Cardero will always be our endless son.


EPILOGUE: I performed the funeral and the eulogy for my son because I believed that as the father and as an ordained minister this was my duty. It is an experience that I would not wish to bestow on anyone else. The only regret that I do have is that I was not able to dedicate my book to my son but I did figure out that I could donate proceeds to the March Of Dimes which I believe in from working closely with their representatives. Looking back at all the religions that I was involved in, I cannot deny any of them because each one of them is incorporated into my spirit, they are a part of me and “I” a part of all the people who belong to them. Which is why I chose Patrickism as my preferred religion. Not only is this the way that GOD perceives me (individually) but it is a culmination of all my life experiences of which I would never trade for any other existence.

 

[Hope]

Wow, everyone's stories are so interesting.

I was born and raised in a Christian home. One of eight kids, homeschooled, extremely sheltered, the whole lot. Went to a very 'different' sort of church for most of my life---was non-denominational, had no pastor ( only seven elders, who were called the 'Brothers', and my dad was one of them ), and was very exclusive in many ways. I never really liked it, and I never really fit in.

I called myself a Christian from the time I was young, but only because it was expected of me. In my heart I didn't truly believe---in fact, for the longest time I actually hated God altogether. That is, if He existed, I thought. I hated God because I hated my life, and felt He was to blame. When I was two years old, I was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. As a child, having this disease was torture to me---not just the physical pain I endured, but also the emotional pain, from feeling so 'different' from everyone else. I hated God because I felt He 'gave' me this disease, and then just sat back and watched me suffer.

Anyway, to make a long story short(er), I grew up having tons of Christian head knowledge, but having absolutely no faith. I became increasingly bitter towards God and others. Then something happened when I was 20. I just hit an incredible low point in my life, a point of desperation. So, that's when I finally cried out to God, and put my faith in Him, and He delivered. Literally overnight I went from having death-wishes, to having this amazing peace and joy in my spirit, and a feeling that everything that was weighing me down had suddenly vanished, leaving me feeling incredibly light. It's kinda hard to describe, but those days and months immediately after 'being born again' were some of the happiest of my life. For the first time in my life I felt 'truly alive.'

My Christian walk since then has definitely had its ups and downs, but my core beliefs and convictions have never changed. God has molded me into a much different person than I used to be, that's one sure thing. One life-changing experience, and one that increased my faith tenfold, was doing a ten-month mission school in Edinburgh, Scotland, a little over a year ago. I met and became friends with some of the most amazing Christians, and really got to know God in a more personal way. He is not just some vague 'thing' up there somewhere, anymore---He is a very real person to me. I realize now that He has been beside me my whole life, I was just too blind most of the time to see Him. And all the pain and hard stuff I've been through in my life, I see now in a very different light. He has completely changed my perspective. And every day, it seems, He is tweaking that perspective a bit more.

I have, over the last several years, become increasingly fed up and disillusioned with organizational Christianity, but I have not yet become disillusioned with my loving heavenly Father who has done so much for me.....

 

[David]

I was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist. If there is one central truth for an SDA it is that God created the world in 6 days and rested on the seventh, the Sabbath. I no longer am associated with that tradition. The last place I have attended was the Quaker Meeting. I actually like those people.

But it was Adventism that had a big impact on me. I experienced it as legalism, as a rule based religion. My understanding was that God was going to judge me and I must be able to stand in his sight. This is an awfully hard thing for a child to accommodate himself too. But it is something you have to do, because in the Adventist tradition that I came from there was no other answer to the problem. As a child I never thought that I would go to heaven and I was always afraid that Jesus would come back before I could have some fun and then I'd have to go to hell. Quite frankly as a child I thought God was a big drag.

This is what I was taught about how to be right with God. "Grace is when you do your best and God makes up the difference." It was that in a nutshell with a little more elaboration in it's presentation. What it boiled down to is that some of the 'saving acts of God' were said to transpire within the believer. Of course the traditional Protestant view is that the 'saving acts of God' were accomplished on the cross.

Even though both view points insist that this salvation is by 'grace' they don't mean the same thing. And the act of accepting one view or another will logically lead you to one type or another of contact with God. This is what happened to me. I was taught that we must 'reflect the image of Jesus fully'. I was told that this would enable me to stand in the judgement of God. I was also honest enough with myself to recognize that if this is the case then it isn't working for me. In fact one Sabbath on the way out of church I passed a woman who was sobbing in the hallway after hearing this doctrine preached. She was saying: "Now I know I will never be saved." She was unconsolable. If you are able to be honest with yourself this is the effect that doctrine will have on you.

I thought I was going to lose my mind over this.

Well, a breath of fresh air arrived in the mail one Friday evening. I had stopped to do one of the good deeds I was wont to do at that time helping an elderly lady shovel her driveway. Not because I cared that it was hard for her, but that I was afraid I would miss a cance to prove my righteousness. That I would fail to measure up. This is the same kind of thinking that allowed people to kill others in the name of Jesus during the inquisition. That's what legalism get's down to.

Well in this magazine I found a concept so great that I would never be the same. The magazine was dedicated to the restoration of the Reformation Gospel. And that is what I found. Through the ministry of this magazine I found that God had done something totally unexpected for me. This is the thought from Martin Luther that liberated my mind. I paraphrase. "A man can with confidence boast in Christ and say mine. Mine are Christ's, mine as much as if I had lived and suffered and died as he did." That was exactly what I had needed. I needed a righteousness and here I find that I can lay claim to the perfect righteousness of Christ. And far from it trying to restore the righteousness of God in me through the work of the Holy Spirit, I was instructed to look to heaven. Where Jesus stood mediating his righteousness before the throne of God. English Reformer John Bunyan liked to speak of a righteousness that resides in heaven in the person of Christ. The importance of this 'imputation' as opposed to the 'infusion' of righteousness is that In Christ I have something that is seperate and unstained by my sinful nature. This righteousness that we so desperately need to face God in judgement with is completely adequate. It is finished and there is nothing more to be done to secure it than to accept the offer. it is so secure we can not alter it. It is finished.

Well this was a complete revolution in my thinking and it served me well for a number of years. I consider it to be one of the things that has impressed me and affected me the most in my entire life. But time passed. My life disintergrated, and I came to have little to do with matters of religion.

Having been raised an Adventist I could not stop thinking that there was a God. But I had questions now that I couldn't answer. Questions intrinsic to the theological framework I had accepted.

Well out of the blue I found this. It is from the same ministry that had enlightened me as to the way grace works. As I read it the first time I was appalled. I felt that everything I had known was now being thrown out. And it was. In a sense. A whole new vision was brought to view. And after several months of rumination on this I arrived at the conclusion that yes this information is new and in some ways disturbing. But the total effect is to bring to view a view of God and the universe and mankind's place in it that is in effect not a repudiation of that which I had taken solace in, but a better way of explaining it. A way appropriate to the 21st century. I am thinking that what has been done and communicated is a distillation of the way that God has revealed himself in the bible. For the first time in my life after reading this I have had glimpses of being very much at home here in the universe.

This link is what I found. I feel blessed. http://www.freechristians.com/Robert_D_Brinsmead/the_scandal_of_joshua_ben_adam.htm

 

[BruceDLimber]

"How did I get to my present path?"

Briefly, by great good fortune!

I was always an active Christian. (Indeed, during my teen years I had a part-time job in the church <not for pay>: I was the one who changed the candles, printed the weekly bulletins, etc.. And when the church got a carillon <bell system>, I helped install it and was therefore the only one who knew how to operate it!)

During my college years, things happened that made me start questioning my beliefs and my stance somewhat. I didn't do anything, just waited to see what would happen....

Soon thereafter I first heard of the Baha'i Faith, eventually happened to meet some Baha'is, and was invited to a fireside (an informal Baha'i informational Q-and-A meeting). I went, became interested, started reading, researching, and investigating, and drove the Baha'is crazy with questions for months on end!

I eventually found myself--still not a Baha'i--telling other folks "This is really neat; you should check it out!" I finally said "This is ridiculous!" and enrolled.

I've now been a Baha'i for over 33 1/2 years, and have NOT ONCE found any reason to regret becoming a Baha'i!

So I heartily invite all and sundry to investigate the Baha'i Faith and to draw your own conclusions!

And we Baha'is will support your decision no matter _what_ it turns out to be--pro or con!

Best,

Bruce

 

[SarahBeara]

wow... I typed up a huge response and then it said I wasn't logged in