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How Did You Replace God?

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Since leaving Christianity totally within the last year I've been asked several times what secular belief system replaced my belief in God. I have no answers other than to say.....I'm searching but haven't gathered up enough information to form a definitive opinion yet.

If you were once a theist and left behind your belief in a Supreme Being, what replaced God? Please be as specific as possible.
 

Zeno

Member
There was a thread a while back addressing 11 questions asked by Christian Answers. Papersock started the thread, and I think it is relevant to what you are asking so I will quote my responses to the questions.

1. "If all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd , why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole makes sense?" —Francis Schaeffer, The God Who Is There

Well for starters life is not meaningless. Our consciousness prevents it from being meaningless. Humans find meaning, it is just what we do. The natural beauty of a sunset can leave you in awe regardless of your belief in some intelligence behind it. Just because something occurs due to a natural process does not render it meaningless. Take a hurricane for instance, its origins may be natural and "meaningless" but would you call it's effects meaningless? Meaning is defined by those who experience it. As for marching forward, I'm not sure what this means really. But in any case I feel progression makes everyone's life that much more enjoyable. Many cultures "march forward" in many different ways.


2. If everyone completely passes out of existence when they die, what ultimate meaning has life? Even if a man's life is important because of his influence on others or by his effect on the course of history, of what ultimate significance is that if there is no immortality and all other lives, events, and even history itself is ultimately meaningless?

Again with the meaninglessness? Well I don't really see how not being immortal makes all historical events meaningless. I will propose an answer nonetheless. Regardless of our origin, even atheists recognize that the human capacity for cognition, emotion, and the finding of meaning is special. The meaning of life is the meaning you find in life. I believe this gives the meaning that much more significance because you yourself searched it out and reconciled it. You affect those around you and should take meaning in the people you care about and the goals you wish to accomplish. Atheism ≠ Nihilism.

3. Suppose the universe had never existed. Apart form God, what ultimate difference would that make?

Besides all the art, beauty, and meaning humans have derived? Nothing.

4. In a universe without God or immortality, how is mankind ultimately different from a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs?

Can pigs write music? Paint a painting? Can pigs travel into outer space? Can pigs come up with the idea of a God or immortality?

Anyway, I think there are plenty of things that make us special.

5. What viable basis exists for justice or law if man is nothing but a sophisticated, programmed machine?

Well logic is in the "programmed machine" (for some of us :p). So is altruism - it aides our survival. Am I to derive from this that the only reason theists don't rampantly break the law and forgo justice is because big brother is up there keeping tabs? Wouldn't that be like saying the only reason not to commit rape, murder, or theft is because you're going to go to jail?

6. Why does research, discovery, diplomacy, art, music, sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, or affectionate and caring relationships mean anything if it all ultimately comes to naught anyway?

Isn't all the research, discovery, diplomacy, art, and music going to come to naught when the worthy are raptured into heaven? If this world is just a testing ground, then all of our research and discovery is meaningless when compared to the divine understanding gained after we pass from this world into the next.

As for sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, and caring relationships - how are these meaningless? They all hold deep meaning to me and just about every non-theist I've encountered. The meaning is what you derive from all of this - it is the reason you do those things. Sacrifices which are done on someone's own accord and not as a ticket to heaven are more meaningful to me.

7.Without absolute morals, what ultimate difference is there between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham?

Some Gods say it is immoral to eat lobster. Some say that moral justice is to remove a thief's hand. Some say it's immoral to worship other, more tempting deities. Some say jealousy is immoral.

People who I would consider "good" come from many different moral backgrounds. As for the common denominators among the major Gods, I think those are derived through logic, reason, and humanity's altruistic nature.

The difference between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham is their impact on humanity and the lesson's learned from them.

8. If there is no immortality, why shouldn't all things be permitted?(Dostoyevsky)

Technically, all things are permitted....you just might end up getting punished for some of them. Wouldn't this be better stated as "why should some things be punished?"

Anyway logic and reason can whisk this question away. I can find plenty of reasons why murder shouldn't be permitted that have absolutely nothing to do with immortality.

9. If morality is only a relative social construct, on what basis could or should anyone ever move to interfere with cultures that practice apartheid, female circumcision, cannibalism, or ethnic cleansing?

This question is kind of shooting itself in the foot.

Most of these horrific examples are carried out for religious reasons. In fact they show why we shouldn't derive our morality from religion. Morality should be derived from our ability to reason and the knowledge we have obtained.

10. If there is no God, on what basis is there any meaning or hope for fairness, comfort, or better times?

I'm a lot happier I'm alive now and not in the 1300's. Society will progress regardless of God's existence. Even with God standing in the way (gay marriage) society will still progress towards fairness, equality, and better times.

11. Without a personal Creator-God, how are you anything other than the coincidental, purposeless miscarriage of nature, spinning round and round on a lonely planet in the blackness of space for just a little while before you and all memory of your futile, pointless, meaningless life finally blinks out forever in the endless darkness?

All those excessive adjectives make my life all the more special. All the more reason to appreciate it.

I have generally found that nothing can replace the comfort some people gain from God. However, comfort is not the same as happiness and meaningfulness. This is relevant to me in that I have been much happier since leaving (Christian) theism behind. I have found that there typically is a period of sadness shortly after leaving the comfortable idea of a life in heaven, however, for me that faded so fast I can barely recall it.

Some relevant specifics would be: the joys of discovering, questioning, and being able to derive meaning in my own terms (and not God's).
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
Why would you need to "replace God?"

Does coming to the conclusion that God doesn't exist mean you have to discard your entire belief system?

Is finding a popularly-recognized "secular belief system" (i.e. a label) to replace God really that necessary? Why aren't the beliefs you just hold without the fun, fancy title good enough?


For me, when I came to the conclusion that God did not exist, I simply discarded that belief and everything I found mistaken related to believing in that God while still continuing to hold the other beliefs I found to be of value and had a secular use. My belief in God was shedded like any other mistaken belief--maybe a little difficulty at first, but no real fundamental or shattering change to my overall belief system (I simply went from theist to atheist). My belief system seems to change in gradual stages.

Hell, at the moment, my overall belief system is sort of undergoing a little renovation and I'm discarding various beliefs left and right that I think are not practical or mistaken. Maybe I can let you fumble through them before the rummage sale to see if whatever I'm getting rid of is of any use to you. :p
 

Yes Man

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Since leaving Christianity totally within the last year I've been asked several times what secular belief system replaced my belief in God. I have no answers other than to say.....I'm searching but haven't gathered up enough information to form a definitive opinion yet.

If you were once a theist and left behind your belief in a Supreme Being, what replaced God? Please be as specific as possible.

Satan? :D
 

Nanda

Polyanna
If you were once a theist and left behind your belief in a Supreme Being, what replaced God? Please be as specific as possible.

How do you mean? I didn't find that it left a big gaping hole to fill. So I guess my answer would be nothing.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Two great quotes from Einstein:
  • The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.
  • There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.
The characteristics that best allow one to easily dispense with God are youth and myopia.
 

Papersock

Lucid Dreamer
Nothing replaced god. There isn't a blank space in my psyche where god use to be that needs to be replaced by something else.
However, I am much more comfortable with many things that would not have been compatible with my previous belief in god.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
If you were once a theist and left behind your belief in a Supreme Being, what replaced God? Please be as specific as possible.
I didn't believe in God but found meaning in my family. I find Viktor Frankl's 'mans search for meaning' an extraordinary book. However I'm well on my way back to God so I'm headed in the opposite direction to you! Good luck with your search. As Sunstone pointed out there's always chocolate.
 

Random

Well-Known Member
I have found that all who dispense with belief in GOD replace it with egoistic self-belief in one form or other. No value judgement there, just an observation.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Great advice. However, it's tough to shut your brain down. :)

There was a thread a while back addressing 11 questions asked by Christian Answers. Papersock started the thread, and I think it is relevant to what you are asking so I will quote my responses to the questions.
Not sure how I missed that thread....thanks for the link, I'll definitely check it out. Great answers, btw.

Zeno said:
I have generally found that nothing can replace the comfort some people gain from God. However, comfort is not the same as happiness and meaningfulness. This is relevant to me in that I have been much happier since leaving (Christian) theism behind. I have found that there typically is a period of sadness shortly after leaving the comfortable idea of a life in heaven, however, for me that faded so fast I can barely recall it.

Some relevant specifics would be: the joys of discovering, questioning, and being able to derive meaning in my own terms (and not God's).
Very well said....I can relate completely as I'm sure can many others.

If it's impossible for me to believe in God, it is doubly impossible for me to believe in Satan. But, thanks for the offer. ;)

Chocolate?
Brilliant suggestion! Somebody hand me a Caramello bar. :drool:

Alyssa said:
Why would you need to "replace God?"
I'm not sure there is a "need" to replace God...it's more a natural process to replace your theist beliefs with something else. Your mind doesn't go blank where it once held thoughts of God, you come to other conclusions (or fluxing theories) concerning the origins of life, your place here on earth, an afterlife, (or not) evolution, etc. And, I don't think one necessarily has "an ending" to this new found belief system. When natural universal discoveries emerge or your spiritual needs change, so does your belief system....to a minute degree. Obviously this varies from person to person.

Does coming to the conclusion that God doesn't exist mean you have to discard your entire belief system?
No, but when you have been a theist (nearly 30 years for me) for a long period of time, your mind set changes regarding how you view much of the world. Perhaps this change is more discernable to people who had a long standing belief in God than it is to someone like you who was a Christian for a short period of time.
Is finding a popularly-recognized "secular belief system" (i.e. a label) to replace God really that necessary? Why aren't the beliefs you just hold without the fun, fancy title good enough?
I'm not necessarily looking for a "fancy title" to call what I believe now or in the future, I'm more interested in how agnostics and atheists who used to be theists arrived at the place they are now....the specifics of the journey and what they ended up believing.

Jay said:
Two great quotes from Einstein:
  • The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.
  • There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.
  • I like those quotes. Great ones to memorize
The characteristics that best allow one to easily dispense with God are youth and myopia.
Guess I missed the youthful short cut...seems as though others are smarter.


Does anyone envision their views changing back to theism like Stephen?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Isn't that like asking what I'm replacing my girlfriend for?

Another girlfriend...

Or for those into more then one....a couple girlfriends.
 

Moey

Member
I found that I was much happier and didn't feel the need to fill a gapping whole as there wasn't one.
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
I haven't replaced god with anything. I found a different way of understanding the universe that didn't require an all-powerful being at the center of it.
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
Buttercup said:
Your mind doesn't go blank where it once held thoughts of God, you come to other conclusions (or fluxing theories) concerning the origins of life, your place here on earth, an afterlife, (or not) evolution, etc. And, I don't think one necessarily has "an ending" to this new found belief system. When natural universal discoveries emerge or your spiritual needs change, so does your belief system....to a minute degree. Obviously this varies from person to person.

Okay, so, to be blunt, then what's the problem? (Really not trying to sound like a jerk--failed miserably).

Perhaps this change is more discernable to people who had a long standing belief in God than it is to someone like you who was a Christian for a short period of time.

Short period of time? To me, being twenty years old, approximately sixteen years isn't necessarily a short period of time of my life. In fact, it's 4/5 of it (yay, I learned something in math). But perhaps youth does leave one more flexible towards changing beliefs than someone who has made them a routine "habit."

I'm not necessarily looking for a "fancy title" to call what I believe now or in the future, I'm more interested in how agnostics and atheists who used to be theists arrived at the place they are now....the specifics of the journey and what they ended up believing.

To me, arriving at a place suggests stopping. I hope my belief system never becomes stagnant like that. May it continue to alter and form and reform. I don't want to arrive anywhere; I want to keep going. Reminds me of something I read out of Ralph Waldo Emerson's journals, which I'll paraphrase: "The best thing you can do in this life is to move through it without any inflexible ideology." I won't worry myself over filling spaces I feel are in my belief system (mine's pretty much gutted and leveled at the moment); they will likely be reconciled in time, nor will I worry too much when, in the end, I have to discard things that are useless. I just want to keep going and growing and learning; I don't care to stubbornly cling to beliefs (even if that stubborn clinging goes in stages, i.e. first stubbornly Christian, then move on to stubbornly secularist, etc.).

None of this crap probably makes sense, though. Oh, well, off to class. ;)
 
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