How Did You Replace God?

[Smoke]

Seems like I've heard time and time again (mostly IRL) once a crack of genuine disbelief starts, your eyes open to all the other inconsistencies and before you know it, the entire theory goes, kabooooom! It was that way for me too.

I've noticed that, too. You don't realize till afterwards how fragile the whole structure really was.

 

[Buttercup]

I find that an odd question. I don't feel like I have replaced God with anything. I don't have some alternate way to get to a blissful afterlife, or any God-substitute to Serve, or any magical way to correct a "fallen nature", etc. I have left these behind and replaced them with nothing.

*sigh* I guess you haven't read the thread. You do substitute something when you no longer believe in God...you adopt a new perspective to replace the one where God resided before. You change. You form new opinions on myriad of topics where God is no longer a part of the equation. You see the world differently when it's God-less.

How could I be the only one who experiences this? There is so much that has been replaced!

 

[eudaimonia]

*sigh* I guess you haven't read the thread.

I'm giving you my perspective on the issue. Don't blame me if I don't play along.

You do substitute something when you no longer believe in God...you adopt a new perspective to replace the one where God resided before. You change. You form new opinions on myriad of topics where God is no longer a part of the equation. You see the world differently when it's God-less.

If you say so. I agree that I have changed in the ways you mention.

As I said, I don't feel that I have found a God-substitute. Maybe I did at one time. But that's just not how I see it now. The "place" that God filled in my life at one time is now unfilled, and unneeded. I am focusing on other "places" now.

Consider this a perspective on the issue after many years of being an atheist. The experience when atheism is fresh is very different.

I apologize if my reply is frustrating for you. I know that it is difficult, even traumatic, to change one's worldview. My sympathies go out to you.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Buttercup]

I apologize if my reply is frustrating for you. I know that it is difficult, even traumatic, to change one's worldview. My sympathies go out to you.

You didn't frustrate me at all. I enjoyed your post, especially the detail you added. Sometimes when one has to keep explaining the same point because people don't read the thread...it gets tiring.

Do you have any idea what percentage of Swedes are atheist?

Do you know if any other religions(besides Christianity) have gained popularity in recent years in Sweden?

 

[sandandfoam]

Seems like I've heard time and time again (mostly IRL) once a crack of genuine disbelief starts, your eyes open to all the other inconsistencies and before you know it, the entire theory goes, kabooooom! It was that way for me too. You reach this point where you finally say to yourself, "Did I really believe all that crap?"

I know exactly what you are talking about, I felt that way too. Keep your eyes open, keep going and see where it takes you.

 

[Buttercup]

I know exactly what you are talking about, I felt that way too. Keep your eyes open, keep going and see where it takes you.

May I ask what turned you around again to reconsidering belief in God?

Was it family pressure?

 

[sandandfoam]

May I ask what turned you around again to reconsidering belief in God?

Was it family pressure?

Not family, my wife is a strident atheist. It started when I was looking at a model brain and wondering about how consciousness could arise from it. I also began to think that maybe I had dismissed the idea of God too easily, I still dismiss the big old guy with a beard idea but a more complex concept (which I haven't yet fully come to terms with) seems rational. Since then I've been reading, reading, reading. I am not really interested in believing anything, I want to understand it. That understanding requires a conceptual framework that I think I will label God. Also it seems to 'feel' right.

 

[sandandfoam]

Buttercup,
I should also add that where I am at now is:-
Spinoza's ideas appeal to me. I especially like his statement "whatever is, is in God" where God is the explanation for 'whatever'.

 

[eudaimonia]

Do you have any idea what percentage of Swedes are atheist?

I've seen different estimates. It's a difficult thing to measure, and you'll need to keep in mind that while many Swedes aren't theists, they may believe in all sorts of "supernatural" things. That doesn't disqualify them as atheists, but it may color your perspective of what atheists can be like here. They aren't all the hardline skeptical types, and they might not refer to themselves as atheists.

The estimates range from 40% nontheists to 80% nontheists. I don't have a clear sense what the correct percentage really is, since Swedes very rarely talk about religion/atheism in social situations.

Clearly, though, religion is very weak in Sweden. Most "religious" Swedes only visit a church for marriages and funerals. Beliefs are generally a very private matter. Even the Christians here are likely to see American Christians who claim to experience God directly as borderline insane.

Do you know if any other religions(besides Christianity) have gained popularity in recent years in Sweden?

Many Immigrants import Islam. Buddhism seems to making some small inroads. I wouldn't say that any religion is really gaining "popularity" in Sweden, though.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Buttercup]

Even the Christians here are likely to see American Christians who claim to experience God directly as borderline insane.

:biglaugh: Don't worry, Swedes aren't the only ones who might think along those lines.

I can see why switching from theism to atheism would be a smoother transition coming from your background. Of course you know most Christians in the US (I was Baptist) have a much more public and experiential Christian life. The change is more apparent.

When I was a Christian I had friends who were missionaries in Sweden. They were there for 5 years and "converted" perhaps a half dozen people. Tough nuts to crack those Swedes. I remember them telling me it was common for parents to allow boyfriends or girlfriends of their teenage kids to live in the same house and even share the same bedroom. I was quite shocked.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Random]

I can see some truth in this statement. I know that when I first had a conscious break from any belief in the supernatural, religious or spiritual...however one wishes to word it...it was the recognition of my own ego rather than the reliance of others beliefs that led to my recovery. Recovery from manic depression and addiction, that is.

But rather than self-belief, I've always despised that phrase "Believe in yourself", I would call it self-knowledge. Nor would I say such a thing is replacing God. For some the development or recognition of the ego is an act of recovering from self-delusion, inferiority and despair. Of course, I guess some would say the same thing for finding God.

Funny, I think I'm starting to go in circles.

Thanks, Gnomon. Good post, have some furballs...:yes:

 

[Random]

Not a very astute one, though.

All my observations are astute, your opinion doesn't change that. How's that for egoism?

Egoism is easily as much at home among theists as among atheists.

But for different reasons, and when you dispense with divine authority then Self is all you got left.

 

[Engyo]

But, that explanation is replacing your old beliefs in God with something new. Somehow you arrived where you are in Buddhism.

What kind of theism did you leave?

How long afterward did you find relevance with Buddhism?

I don't feel that I took something (belief in god) out of a particular file drawer in my mind and put something else in that drawer. That analogy just doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't fill a sort of void left from that old belief with another belief - I came to a very different understanding of life and the universe which has no need for anything in that position, or drawer. I'm not even sure that drawer exists now (analogy bent way out of shape here).

I was raised in a sort of generic mid-American WASP background. We went to a Christian Science church, but were not strict regarding that sect's beliefs.

I basically dropped most if not all belief in god as postulated by Christianity in my early to mid teens. I began practicing Buddhism when I was in my early twenties. My conceptualization of the universe and how all life, including mine, fits into that continues to evolve.

BTW, Buddhism is a practice, rather than a belief system. You can believe in Buddhism all day long, and nothing will happen if you don't practice. Conversely , you can practice without any sort of belief, as I did, and see results from that practice.

 

[Smoke]

But for different reasons, and when you dispense with divine authority then Self is all you got left.

When you accept divine authority, you don't really have divine authority, just a deluded Self with an exaggerated sense of its own authority.

 

[YmirGF]

Although I was never a "holy roller" to begin with and was raised as an atheist (thank god, lol) I never really had a god concept to replace. My seven years "playing footsy" with Vaisnava thought in my early 20's appealed to me only because we were not only encouraged to SEE god, but further to this, that it was/is entirely possible to do just that. After I gained that bit of icing, via direct experience, I simply outgrew the idea of "god". That left me all alone in a universe of my own creation. It's not all that bad once one gets used to the previously unimaginable bliss but I now require a limitless system of belief that has no boundaries. I no longer feel a need to rely on a god to support my existence, likewise I am rather insistent about carrying my own cross as it were and also no longer look to others for guidance.

The last nugget in regards to god concepts resides in the experience of Oneness and I flatly state that if indeed we are all One, then who pray tell, are you? There is only one answer (of any significance, at least).

Does anyone envision their views changing back to theism like Stephen?

There is absolutely no possibility that I will ever succumb to the illusory platitudes of the various religions of man. I am already at the stage where I can critique each and every one by comparing them to my own experience and unfortunately for the religions of man -- they all fall short.

*gets all misty eyed and climbs out on a limb*

However that does not mean that I would not be attracted to the "next wave" of understanding that will dawn in a few more short years. There is another passion play about to be enacted and hopefully folks will recognize it for what it is. The downside for theists is that it will NOT be promoted as a religion, but rather simply a way of being without boundaries.

Then again, it could just be a pretty dream from the mind of an incurable romantic.

Heck, after all is said and done, what exactly would I know?

 

[Random]

When you accept divine authority, you don't really have divine authority, just a deluded Self with an exaggerated sense of its own authority.

Certainly not in all cases. You over-generalize. If by "deluded Self" you mean a person who identifies their thoughts and actions as those of God, then surely I would agree with you, but it is for this very reason we are taught that We are not God, no?

 

[Moey]

I'm surprised people don't think a new perspective took the place where God used to be however. An ever evolving and changing perspective. That's what I'm trying to discern.

Well I can tell you that I have become aware that everything in our world is related in some fashon. I do not believe that there are spirtiual beings guiding us. But a person's belief system changes over time. I don't forsee myself ever believing in a god again but one can't predict the future.

Once you realise that the evolutionary scale goes farther back that the bible you start to think that maybe it was made up. And you look to science for answers and you start to find them.

 

[doppelganger]

Folger's Crystals.

 

[Buttercup]

I certainly envision it as possible.

Briefly, or as loquaciously as you care to, could you explain what it would take for you to reunite a belief in God or Gods?

Bumpity bump. (Evidently the word, "bump" is too short)

 

[YmirGF]

Bumpity bump. (Evidently the word, "bump" is too short)

It is even further shortened when a French accent is applied to it. The word then becomes, "Bmp" as in "I have a bmp on my 'ead." (Peter Seller's fan's will hopefully understand, lol.)