How Do Atheists Handle World Events: Scenario 1 Totalitarianism

[Searching1981]

Why would being an atheist make any difference?

That's a good question, look at all the responses and tell me.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's a good question, look at all the responses and tell me.

It would not.

 

[shunyadragon]

I get what you are saying, Totalitarianism comes in many forms but that is not what we are facing and have been facing since Darwin. You can, friend, be an atheist Rebel...but in my whole life I've never seen one.

Darwin is an innocent honest scientist bystander that proposed evolution in a long line of scientists resolving the unknowns of the origin and evolution of life and the physical evolving heritage of humanity..

I would be more concerned with the Roman Church taking over the world.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

"When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -Sinclair Lewis

Stop Facism by Flag: Support the ACLU, the Free Press, and separations of powers outlined in the constitution, so we never let a jingoistic "flag" shut down the rights and opportunities of minority voices.

Stop Facism by Cross: Support efforts to TAX, TAX, TAX churches, and support the separation of church and state at all levels of government, so we never let a religious "cross" shut down the rights and opportunities of minority voices.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Religious people and Atheists are both welcome to reply. I'm not kicking anyone out of this thread as is the practice with some people.

I'm not going to read the first sentence of the opening post and act like I can talk about it though.

Now, we are living in interesting times; these are times that test the soul. Except, how do people handle these times who do not believe in a soul or everlasting life, what is your calculus of decisions and how do you react. Please be authentic and honest, you are anonymous to me and this is just a message board.

With my system of ethics. Basically I think people have certain rights and I prioritize those rights. I then try to do the greatest good for the greatest number without compromising those rights.

So, let us go to Scenario 1: Totalitarianism.

Interesting.

You live in a world where the Media and Government work in concert to control your lives. It's worse than 1984 in that you are not even aware of it. The Media pretends to oppose the Government and the Government pretends to oppose the media but The Media helps get the Government elected and through a series of coordinated Reality TV the Government feeds the Media Ratings.

If I'm not aware of it in this little thought experiment then what is the point?

As this world develops your Health Care is being taken away as are your Rights of Speech, but the Government and Media control this by introducing catastrophic war reasoning, "only a degenerate would speak out against the Media and Government during a time of Crisis."

I know where you are going with this but yeah I follow you.

The Media and Government convince you opposing them aggressively is only something degenerates do, what you need are endless peaceful protests the Media will not Cover and the Government does not care about. In short, you and society are cornered because no one is willing to fight for you unless you fight for yourself.

Nothing new so far.

Over time, there is talk of genocide maybe of the Korean and Japanese people or maybe of the Hispanic people. Then there is talk a great recession as regulation put in place to prevent it are removed and you or others will lose your well-being and retirement as a result.

Yeah definitely would have a problem with this.

In short, this is totalitarianism.

How would you handle this crisis as an Atheist?

The word atheist is not capitalized like a proper noun.

You said that:"you are not even aware of it" so I wouldn't really be able to do anything now would I?

Now assuming for the sake of argument that the quote above was an over-site on your part I would oppose the government with non-violent means through the internet in order to release information on the government to people. If I get caught then I die without regrets.

UPDATE !: More Details

In this society they raise the prices of cigarettes, alcohol and criminalize pot...anything that makes you think and reflect and spend time inwards is deemed bad and either criminal or expensive so only the wealthy can do it. They say it is for your health, but really it is to stop from getting you thinking, talking, congregating.

Cigarettes, alcohol, and pot are not things that I think should be kept from people, but they sure as **** don't help you think.

The movement starts out as a People's movement with the Leader a Wealthy Demagogue. You can't just vote the person out as both political parties are in on it. One party given you bad, unlikeable candidates and the other party selects one Demagogue after the other. Over time this People's movement like Soviet (a movement of People) Russia, China and North Korea just plain rig the elections but because freedom of speech will get you killed no one can discuss it.

Got to die somehow I guess.

Then there are Hacker groups who pretend to be on your side but are all on the side of the Demagogue. As you follow their Twitter you see them tear down any party that is not for totalitarianism all the while appealing to freedom while they undermine it.

Good thing we atheists that are skeptics can use skeptical thinking to get past that.

Well for one thing there would still be hacker groups that are against the government. And despite what you are trying to imply here, the hacker groups of today are not part of the government.

How would an Atheist handle this scenario?

The word atheist should not be capitalized here.

I would try to handle this as best I can. I don't think that atheists, Christians, Jews, Wiccans, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. would really handle the situation very differently on that basis. Maybe they would, in my opinion at least, waste time trying to use some supernatural methods to deal with the problem but most religious people I have met are more rational than that. People that can see threw the bull**** and are not scared to act would probably be the people who acted regardless of religion or lack thereof.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Yes, I'm completely serious. Now put on the veil of ignorance and decide if you say the situation this bad would you fight back? That is the hypothetical I presented. My suspicion is you would not and don't. But your frustration belies your intentions, fear is not a motivator, confidence is try having it without Faith.

Read 1984 before you talk about it please.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

I get what you are saying, Totalitarianism comes in many forms but that is not what we are facing and have been facing since Darwin. You can, friend, be an atheist Rebel...but in my whole life I've never seen one.

Okay please humor me.

In what way or form has Darwin made Totalitarianism.

Let me guess, your going to go say the same old drivel that you heard from other people who have no understanding of history, science, or philosophy.

 

[Searching1981]

Now, I outlined my way of fighting back which has worked. But look at everyone else? Who do you think is really fighting it? How? Why has it worked? Hackers are not for Government, follow Wikileaks on their twitter; they are lying to your face and calling themselves brave.

"I say I don't know? You say you don't know? I say...take me out.

 

[Searching1981]

Darwin is an innocent honest scientist bystander that proposed evolution in a long line of scientists resolving the unknowns of the origin and evolution of life and the physical evolving heritage of humanity..

I would be more concerned with the Roman Church taking over the world.

You are a sincere man, I love and respect you. When people are insincere, monitoring my threads and making it a game I don't respond (cough, cough hackers) I agree Darwin is blameless, so what if he was a gay man developing theory to take it to the straight community, he is in Heaven.

As for your fear of the Catholic Church, my response? America is not a Catholic country, if it was I would tell you your fears are founded. Instead, I ask you to look at Catholic Countries Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Latin America, Africa, how are they even remotely involved in this? Now, I tell you, you are showing your age and the propaganda the government gave you...we are nothing to fear.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, I'm completely serious. Now put on the veil of ignorance and decide if you say the situation this bad would you fight back? That is the hypothetical I presented. My suspicion is you would not and don't. But your frustration belies your intentions, fear is not a motivator, confidence is try having it without Faith.

Unwarranted assumptions concerning those who believe differently.

 

[Underhill]

Religious people and Atheists are both welcome to reply. I'm not kicking anyone out of this thread as is the practice with some people.

Now, we are living in interesting times; these are times that test the soul. Except, how do people handle these times who do not believe in a soul or everlasting life, what is your calculus of decisions and how do you react. Please be authentic and honest, you are anonymous to me and this is just a message board.

So, let us go to Scenario 1: Totalitarianism.

You live in a world where the Media and Government work in concert to control your lives. It's worse than 1984 in that you are not even aware of it. The Media pretends to oppose the Government and the Government pretends to oppose the media but The Media helps get the Government elected and through a series of coordinated Reality TV the Government feeds the Media Ratings.

As this world develops your Health Care is being taken away as are your Rights of Speech, but the Government and Media control this by introducing catastrophic war reasoning, "only a degenerate would speak out against the Media and Government during a time of Crisis."

The Media and Government convince you opposing them aggressively is only something degenerates do, what you need are endless peaceful protests the Media will not Cover and the Government does not care about. In short, you and society are cornered because no one is willing to fight for you unless you fight for yourself.

Over time, there is talk of genocide maybe of the Korean and Japanese people or maybe of the Hispanic people. Then there is talk a great recession as regulation put in place to prevent it are removed and you or others will lose your well-being and retirement as a result.

In short, this is totalitarianism.

How would you handle this crisis as an Atheist?

UPDATE !: More Details

In this society they raise the prices of cigarettes, alcohol and criminalize pot...anything that makes you think and reflect and spend time inwards is deemed bad and either criminal or expensive so only the wealthy can do it. They say it is for your health, but really it is to stop from getting you thinking, talking, congregating.

The movement starts out as a People's movement with the Leader a Wealthy Demagogue. You can't just vote the person out as both political parties are in on it. One party given you bad, unlikeable candidates and the other party selects one Demagogue after the other. Over time this People's movement like Soviet (a movement of People) Russia, China and North Korea just plain rig the elections but because freedom of speech will get you killed no one can discuss it.

Then there are Hacker groups who pretend to be on your side but are all on the side of the Demagogue. As you follow their Twitter you see them tear down any party that is not for totalitarianism all the while appealing to freedom while they undermine it.

How would an Atheist handle this scenario?

I don't understand the question. In what way do you think we should handle it differently?

The only differences I see is that we have less of a tendency to color every decision with religious motivations. We tend to see through those who would use and manipulate those motivations.

 

[SomeRandom]

It's all a great point, but let me address the Bold. I am definitely not suggesting suicide, but I can understand how you think someone who believes in the afterlife or God could conclude that given the circumstances of the book.

Now, this is a great extension of the argument inserting 1984 but my argument is that, "why not fight back with all the faith in the world knowing death is not the end...so, it does not get to the point of suicide." It seems the first strategy of Big Brother is to remove all faith and insert a complete debilitating and existential fear of it; in this way they control your whole life i.e. no God, they are the closest thing to it.

From your description of the Proles, I have not read the book in a long time, I think of The Brothers Karamazov (a book I highly recommend you read if you have not read it) where Raskolnikov asserts in the end right before the time of the fall of Russia to Communism, "one day there will be a hymn from the underground." What Dostoyevsky thought is the greatest solution to Totalitarianism would be something like the Proles. Why? Big Brother would use someone like them to create a hierarchy i.e. unless you do as we say and live as we live and conform, you will end up like them. They themselves, having nothing to lose and having nothing to gain from Big Brother, not being under surveillance, have the biggest hope of living with Faith and leading the Rebellion.

Great discussion.

Big Brother didn't remove faith. They merely shifted it. Towards themselves, towards their cause. Hell they rely heavily on the ability of peoples' faith in a higher power. Otherwise they wouldn't be as successful as they are. No, they instead removed humanity. Every ounce of individuality, every ounce natural instinct, every ounce of sociability. They themselves gloat at one point that they have broken apart perfectly not only humans, but every human relationship that ever matters. Parents no longer are parents, spouses are not longer spouses, even friends are no longer friends. It's pure instinctive self preservation.

The Brothers Karamazov is definitely on my TBR.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Religious people and Atheists are both welcome to reply. I'm not kicking anyone out of this thread as is the practice with some people.

Now, we are living in interesting times; these are times that test the soul. Except, how do people handle these times who do not believe in a soul or everlasting life, what is your calculus of decisions and how do you react. Please be authentic and honest, you are anonymous to me and this is just a message board.

So, let us go to Scenario 1: Totalitarianism.

You live in a world where the Media and Government work in concert to control your lives. It's worse than 1984 in that you are not even aware of it. The Media pretends to oppose the Government and the Government pretends to oppose the media but The Media helps get the Government elected and through a series of coordinated Reality TV the Government feeds the Media Ratings.

As this world develops your Health Care is being taken away as are your Rights of Speech, but the Government and Media control this by introducing catastrophic war reasoning, "only a degenerate would speak out against the Media and Government during a time of Crisis."

The Media and Government convince you opposing them aggressively is only something degenerates do, what you need are endless peaceful protests the Media will not Cover and the Government does not care about. In short, you and society are cornered because no one is willing to fight for you unless you fight for yourself.

Over time, there is talk of genocide maybe of the Korean and Japanese people or maybe of the Hispanic people. Then there is talk a great recession as regulation put in place to prevent it are removed and you or others will lose your well-being and retirement as a result.

In short, this is totalitarianism.

How would you handle this crisis as an Atheist?

UPDATE !: More Details

In this society they raise the prices of cigarettes, alcohol and criminalize pot...anything that makes you think and reflect and spend time inwards is deemed bad and either criminal or expensive so only the wealthy can do it. They say it is for your health, but really it is to stop from getting you thinking, talking, congregating.

The movement starts out as a People's movement with the Leader a Wealthy Demagogue. You can't just vote the person out as both political parties are in on it. One party given you bad, unlikeable candidates and the other party selects one Demagogue after the other. Over time this People's movement like Soviet (a movement of People) Russia, China and North Korea just plain rig the elections but because freedom of speech will get you killed no one can discuss it.

Then there are Hacker groups who pretend to be on your side but are all on the side of the Demagogue. As you follow their Twitter you see them tear down any party that is not for totalitarianism all the while appealing to freedom while they undermine it.

How would an Atheist handle this scenario?

Is the dictator an atheist or theist for starters?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

In this society they raise the prices of cigarettes, alcohol and criminalize pot...anything that makes you think and reflect and spend time inwards is deemed bad and either criminal or expensive so only the wealthy can do it. They say it is for your health, but really it is to stop from getting you thinking, talking, congregating.

You shot yourself in the foot right here from my point of view. You seem to be equating use of cigarettes, alcohol and pot with the following 3 things:

1. "makes you think and reflect"
2. "makes you spend time inwards" (whatever the hell this means)
3. "[gets you to] congregate"

The first two in the equation are terrible. Smoking/drinking/toking do not assist one in thinking or doing anything deep or profound - otherwise we'd have a whole host of profound things and ideas happening all the time, and would hold up pot-heads and alcoholics and people who stink of smoke as valuable members of society for no other reason than that they smoke/drink/toke. That seems to be what you're trying to say, and it is, to be honest, very sadly pathetic.

Now, you can try and wriggle your way out of it, because you sort of qualified it with "anything that makes you think and reflect", meaning you didn't ONLY mean those things (smoking/drinking), however, what made those the top 3 things you listed? And keep in mind they are the ONLY 3 things you listed. I have a sneaking suspicion why, and it discredits you to no end... no matter how "unfair" you think that is. Get your head out of the cloud of smoke and your mind out of the influence of alcohol and then, maybe, I'll hear you out - but probably not, if I am being honest. Some of your other posts - like your "plans" for how you would start your "rebellion" are just... well... just awful. Really juvenile stuff. This thread may as well be asking people how they would survive a zombie apocalypse - to which you post your own answer as if you were 13 years old - "I'd get a shotgun, fill it with the bullets, and then shoot the zombies right in the head from my upstairs bedroom window... oh, and I would bait them by posting pictures of brains on twitter and various other social media. What a great plan, am I right?"

 

[Polymath257]

This is what I'm writing: as an atheist why have children? If you believe there is no logic in this place wouldn't it be the cruelest thing in the world to insert new life with the burden of this existential struggle only to know there is no happy ending? It would seem a selfish proposition.

The meaning of life isn't in its ending, but in how it is lived. We all die. But many are so concerned about death that they never really live.

I don't find life to be a burden. I find it fascinating and full of wonder and joy. Yes, it can be a struggle, but it is well worth it to experience the many aspects of the universe.

So, no, I don't consider it cruel to have children. Have children. Teach them the beauty around them. Teach them to fight the injustices and make the world a better place. That, rather than appeasing a cruel deity, is a meaning in life I can endorse.

Now, I'm a theist but I will never have children. Why? I would never want any child of mine to born into this horrific place when I know I can have children in Heaven, a perfect environment. Then you ask what if you can't? That's still fine because I know I did not insert anyone into this horrible situation.

I am sorry that you consider life to be so horrible. Perhaps that is because of your religious beliefs? Just a thought to consider.

But, but, but the reason I write that is because as an atheist in the tough situation with children where there is no happy ending, how would you respond to this government? Skwim already said he would join them in some way, another person already suggested there is nothing that can be done but conform. Isn't that painful? Everyone fears death so much they are immobilized from fighting back. Seems like it's a good proposition for Totalitarians.

As with all situations, I see what good I can contribute. If I believe that by fighting (and perhaps dying), I can make life better for others, then I will do so. If I believe that the fight is pointless, I may not fight. Instead, I would see what I could do for the fight that must, eventually, happen.

 

[Polymath257]

I get what you are saying, Totalitarianism comes in many forms but that is not what we are facing and have been facing since Darwin. You can, friend, be an atheist Rebel...but in my whole life I've never seen one.

Facing since Darwin???? OK, you have to do some reading in history. Darwin had nothing at all to do with the politics of today (except for those who still reject science).

The situation today is NOTHING at all like that in 1984, at least in the West. That you seem to think it is shows a lack of comprehension of what Orwell was writing.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Us atheists would handle such world events the same way we handle all events: get drunk, attend drug-fueled orgies, and throw some babies on the grill when we get hungry.

 

[suncowiam]

Us atheists would handle such world events the same way we handle all events: get drunk, attend drug-fueled orgies, and throw some babies on the grill when we get hungry.

God, I love orgies. Greatest thing in being an atheist.

 

[shunyadragon]

God, I love orgies. Greatest thing in being an atheist.

Theists love orgies too. They just feel guilty about it and ask forgiveness for even thinking about.

 

[suncowiam]

Theists love orgies too. They just feel guilty about and ask forgiveness for even thinking about.