How Do Atheists Handle World Events: Scenario 2 Miracles

[CogentPhilosopher]

I seriously question this proposal of revision to better match reality. I believe that miracles have been found wanting in terms of predicable and testable hypothesis in the past, and will likely continue to do so without revising their theories.

I was saying that IF and only IF there where really miracles happening all over the place.

 

[leibowde84]

lol! Well, no it's not a paranoid delusion. Paranoia refers to feelings of threat or harm, which may be either unreal or exaggerated. Delusion refers to a thought system where there is no evidence for it. There is no feeling of threat or harm and there is evidence for it, quite a bit of evidence for it.

But, what I think you are saying is you would lose control and a loss of control would make you feel unstable.

Again, I'm just taking a hammer to your idols as Nietzche advised. That ruffles feathers.

One thing is certain ... youtube videos are not evidence of anything like this, as youtube videos aren't verifiable in any real way.

 

[sayak83]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

I will go to a psychiatrist as all of this would imply that I have a mental illness.
And I am not an atheist. If you are having such ideas, I would encourage you to do the same.

 

[leibowde84]

But, again, what is evidence? What would constitute evidence when you are presented with evidence? As the thought exercise says, the media, government, scientist all know about it; many people who are social know about it. You are just out of the loop...maybe there is a reason for that.

This is a seemingly outlandish claim. Can you back this up with any evidence that isn't merely more claims? In other words, is there any verifiable evidence that the media and scientists know about this beyond people merely claiming that they do?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I was saying that IF and only IF there where really miracles happening all over the place.

Indeed-- the rate of "miracles" would have to be sufficiently high, that every single person on earth has a chance to see at least one-- preferably more than one.

Why? To limit the "miracles" to only a selected few? Is immoral-- playing special favorites.

Even a 3 year old can recognize the unfairness of playing special favorites. No god who was good, would do such things.

 

[Kemosloby]

tap tap tap

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Indeed-- the rate of "miracles" would have to be sufficiently high, that every single person on earth has a chance to see at least one-- preferably more than one.

Why? To limit the "miracles" to only a selected few? Is immoral-- playing special favorites.

Even a 3 year old can recognize the unfairness of playing special favorites. No god who was good, would do such things.

I disagree.

Just because "miracles" exists that does not necessarily mean that there is an intelligence behind them.

 

[leibowde84]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

I think the main problem with this is that you haven't provided any evidence to back up your claims. Most importantly that scientists and the media know about these things (which means that they must have verifiable evidence for them, as it is idiotic to take people's word for claimed miracles), can you back this up in any way?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

First of all, there is no evidence that the things you mention actually happen in this universe. But, let's suppose that they did happen. Just because there is no explanation for them, why would one immediately believe that a supernatural being is responsible for them? I accept that unexplained phenomena exist, but I don't jump to the conclusion that they must be supernatural just because we have not yet found a natural explanation for them.

 

[YmirGF]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

As a very broad minded "strong" atheist I'd say the writer of the OP has many unresolved issues that may require extended counseling to set to rest. When one is mulling the hidden nature of given videos/songs, one really has made significant progress over the edge. Hopefully there are meds that can help with this condition.

 

[viole]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

The real question should be: how would a NOT conspiracy theorist handle this?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I disagree.

Just because "miracles" exists that does not necessarily mean that there is an intelligence behind them.

Oh, I agree-- I was just addressing the presumption that "miracle" means "god, 'ee done it".

A classical logical fallacy.

 

[columbus]

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

This part is nearly as implausible as the magical regenerating limbs.

Scientific people don't suppress things like religious people do. They've got curiosity like a disease. Similarly, the media would be in a frenzy of "scooping" each other to report on the latest development and produce evidence and documentation. The government couldn't stop any of these people if they tried, whatever reasons they might have.

What you are describing sounds more like a theocracy. A society where powerful people have reasons to suppress the truth in favor of their world view. That is a religious motivation, not a secular motivation.
Tom

 

[shunyadragon]

I disagree.

Just because "miracles" exists that does not necessarily mean that there is an intelligence behind them.

Though if miracles are valid, they would be beyond the scope of natural laws of our physical existence, which makes it difficult with the absence of a power beyond our physical existence. Even though I am a Theist I have to conclude that any claim of the miraculous is natural, not at present understood in terms of our perspective of natural law.

The next word after 'miracle' in most dictionaries is 'mirage.'

 

[LuisDantas]

Miracles are just events that are perceived as significant and unexplainable except by resorting to the supernatural.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

I would chuckle and shake my head at all the credulous nutjobs who have no ability for reasoned discernment, and go about my day. In fact, it's really no different than how I already handle the world every day.

 

[shunyadragon]

I consider murmurs and rumors of miracles in the same boats, as Sasquatch, and the Loch Ness monster.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Both theist and atheist are welcome to reply. Have Fun! Cheers!

Suppose you live in a world where you hear murmurs of miracles. Maybe you have seen something or maybe not, but what is true is you have heard things.

These things include people creating videos all over Youtube called, "Man argues with Dog," or any other animal. There is not just one but plenty. To the outsiders, these videos are just cute but to the insiders you can see they are showing miracles i.e. they are literally talking to animals but only other people who can talk to animals hear it.
This then leads to other miracles, like telepathy. To outsiders people making ruffling noises or tapping on objects or making noise in public places is annoying, to the insiders they are using what is called the tapping system. In the tapping system each tap is a syllable and people communicate with it. But that's not all, there is direct telepathy where people spend the evening communicating with people all over the world through telepathy.

Then music, which has largely been repressed passed the nineties, you find from the insiders uses the tapping system on the guitar or piano or drums to communicate beyond the lyrics. Songs like, "Uptown Funk," have a hidden message, "Don't believe me just fight," are things the songs says. Or you find on a good sound quality track like Outcasts Hey Yah, the Background Singers are threatening Andre 3000. Or in Echosmith the Cool Kids Song the singer says, "F The Cool Kids they always seem to die." All these songs take on a new meaning with telepathy. You find this goes back to the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Blues Greats like Robert Johnson and T Bone Walker. It's present in Reggae in Bob Marley Hits.

You hear these murmurs of miracles and telepathy. Then it gets strangers, even stranger. Murmurs of people who have been healed by random people. Lost arms returning, mental disability fixed, facial disabilities fixed, Cancer and Aids cured just by simple telepathy and motions of the hand. So much so, there are groups of people who find our health care system primitive.

The media knows about it but doesn't report. The government knows about it but tries to suppress it. It seems the majority of people know about it, but you are only hearing murmurs. Scientist know about it but because there is no scientific explanation for it and it defies all their theories they suppress.

How, would you, an Atheist handle this?

I'm not sure 'as an Atheist' is the way I'd approach it so much as 'as a rational thinker.' First, I'd (admittedly chuckling) remind myself that hypotheticals are not much more than mental masterbation. Murmors, rumors, hearing of these things...what does that have to do with a mental exercise other than to separate those that base conclusions on a standard of truth, rather than hearsay?

If arms began to regrow, cancer was cured, I'd give money to support further research into the means. Of course, there would need to be real documentation of these things actually happeneing.

If phenomena "P" exists or occurs, then I'd search for possible explanation or hypothesis "H." Numerous H presenting themselves to the imagination, I'd construct testable null hypotheses to eliminate erroneous models and refine consistent models. Above all I'd always be willing to let go of pre-concieved notions or even tested hypotheses if better explanations presented themselves.

I hope this helps!

BTW, how would someone that presumes anything they don't have an explanation for must be a miracle handle these situations?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I was saying that IF and only IF there where really miracles happening all over the place.

How would you know IFF REAL miracles occure? Unless of course you don't understand the phenomena and ASSUME it's miraculous.

How do you differentiate a real miracle from anything you just don't happen to understand or can't process?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Miracles are just events that are perceived as significant and unexplainable except by resorting to the supernatural.

100 years ago maybe. But science has proven that sight is merely a subjective interpretation of particular light waves (energy) striking the eye (sensor). All senses are the same, sensors pick up some type of energy pattern and the mind interpretes it.

100 years ago, someone claiming to see a ghost might, even rationally, be able to resort to the supernatural. Today we know that if you saw it, or heard it, etc, it was either natural, or was a mental artifact (nice way of saying imaginary).

Supernatural, by definition, is beyond perception, can't be seen, can't be heard...can only be imagined.

If god speaks, he does it in a natural way, that anyone within earshot could hear, or he does it by messing with the mind.