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How do Christians view Judaism?

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That's a crock.

(Matt. 26:62-68)

The Jews played the Caesar card to Pilate to threaten him and it worked. But Jesus was sent to the Cross by the Jews because He claimed to be the Son of God the Messiah.

It is so strange that the Jews can kill the Messiah, and are scattered now over all the earth due to their constant rebellion against God, and still claim they are being obedient to God. The blood of Jesus Christ rests upon Israel which is what they wanted and what they got. (Matt. 27:25)

Israel did to Jesus what she did with her own prophets before Him. Yet she wants to claim some sort of obedience to God.

Good-Ole-Rebel
Read your own writings. No Jew executed Jesus. They took him to Pilate, the representative of the Roman empire. Pilate nailed Jesus' crime on the cross: "King of the Jews." He was a threat to the peace. Romans crucified a zillion of these guys at the drop of a hat.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
From the very beginning faith directed toward Messiah was taught in the Old Testament. After Adam and Eve fell God promised the Seed to come would destroy satan but would Himself be wounded. (Gen. 3:15). Adam believed, (faith), and declared Eve was the Mother of all the living. (Gen. 3:20). Eve evidenced her faith in that same promise though it was misdirected. (Gen. 4:1) Faith in the promised Seed to come who would destroy satan.

Abraham also was saved by faith. (Gen. 15:6). Abraham had exercised faith previously when he left Ur of the Chaldees. (Gen. 12:4). But it is here in (Gen. 15) that Abraham's faith results in imputed righteousness. Why? Because it pertained to the Seed promise, which would result in the Messiah.

That the people were not aware of all that this faith entailed is immaterial. It works because God says it works. He imputes righteousness at His direction. And unless righteousness is imputed, there is no salvation.

When Israel was commanded to place the blood of the Passover lamb on the doorpost's of their houses, they were exercising faith in God in doing so, and that faith was directed toward the Messiah who would also be the Lamb of God. Though they didn't understand all of that at that time, is immaterial. They exercised faith in God toward that which pertained to Messiah.

Don't know which Old Testament passages you are referring to when you say 'the prophets clearly teach'. Israel would never be saved by obedience to the Law. She clearly demonstrates she cannot keep the Law. No one is ever saved by keeping the Law. But with the demands of the Law came the sacrifices. And the one who brought the sacrifices evidenced a faith towards God. And those sacrifices pointed to the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.

Good-Ole-Rebel
The "seed" of Eve is plural, referring to humanity. Not Jesus. It is not a messianic passage. And it says nothing, NOTHING about having faith in a messiah.

Abraham was saved by a faith that was exhibited by his obedience -- the two are inseparable from each other. And what does it mean that he was saved? I don't think it means that he was washed in the blood of the lamb, as Christians assume.

As for the blood of the lamb being painted on the doorposts of the homes, many other things were done as well. But you find no religious meaning in these other things. You basically cherry pick the one thing that you want.

I never said, obedience saves. I stay away from the word saves because basically the Tanakh has a very different meaning for Salvation than your New Testament. Your Christian Scriptures mean salvation from sins, from eternal damnation. In the Tanakh, salvation is a very earthly thing, salvation from our enemies, etc. What obedience does is keeps us in God's good graces.

And what I specifically said was that the remnant of Israel were those who were obedience.

And that that Tanakh never EVER talk about having faith in the Messiah as the way to escape eternal damnation. EVER.

Which is quite a problem for Christianity. I mean, it's like this big gaping hole.
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

*banned*
Read your own writings. No Jew executed Jesus. They took him to Pilate, the representative of the Roman empire. Pilate nailed Jesus' crime on the cross: "King of the Jews." He was a threat to the peace. Romans crucified a zillion of these guys at the drop of a hat.

Go back and read post # (147) and (149).

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No. What I’m thinking is that there might be evidence in the teachings of the earliest rabbis, of the influence of the teachings of Jesus on their ways of thinking.
You are still not giving me examples. I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, the word "Jew" refers to the tribe of Judah....as you said. But the nation of ""Israel" (Jacob) consist of all the tribes (sons) of Jacob.
Judah is but one son, and the one that returned from Babylonian captivity to that little "place" in the middle east today.

"Israel" is not a place on the map, Israel is a people...
and today most of those people (Israel) constitute several European nations with Britain and the USA the leading nations
and the inheritors of the birthright blessings given to his sons ( Manasseh and Ephraim ) by Jacob .
Please don't say, Yes, and then contradict me. It makes me feel like either you didnt read me, or that you are being manipulative.

What I say was that Jew applies to all of the Children of Israel, and I gave the reasons why (because it was applied to all who went into Babylon, which were all the tribes if you include the refugees).

Don't play semantic games with me. Places have placenames. The word Israel has more than one meaning:
1. The new name of the individual Jacob.
2. The extended tribe/people descended from him, called Jews today.
3. The northern Kingdom that existed for a short period of time.
4. The nation state of Israel, either in the ancient past or today, both of which can be pointed to on a map.
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

*banned*
The "seed" of Eve is plural, referring to humanity. Not Jesus. It is not a messianic passage. And it says nothing, NOTHING about having faith in a messiah.

Abraham was saved by a faith that was exhibited by his obedience -- the two are inseparable from each other. And what does it mean that he was saved? I don't think it means that he was washed in the blood of the lamb, as Christians assume.

As for the blood of the lamb being painted on the doorposts of the homes, many other things were done as well. But you find no religious meaning in these other things. You basically cherry pick the one thing that you want.

I never said, obedience saves. I stay away from the word saves because basically the Tanakh has a very different meaning for Salvation than your New Testament. Your Christian Scriptures mean salvation from sins, from eternal damnation. In the Tanakh, salvation is a very earthly thing, salvation from our enemies, etc. What obedience does is keeps us in God's good graces.

And what I specifically said was that the remnant of Israel were those who were obedience.

And that that Tanakh never EVER talk about having faith in the Messiah as the way to escape eternal damnation. EVER.

Which is quite a problem for Christianity. I mean, it's like this big gaping hole.

(Gen. 15:6) "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

Due to Abraham's faith, righteousness was reckoned or counted to him. Scripture is clear.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
(Gen. 15:6) "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

Due to Abraham's faith, righteousness was reckoned or counted to him. Scripture is clear.

Good-Ole-Rebel
I stand by what I said. He showed his belief with his obedience. The two are inseparable.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
@Harel13 My ideas about this are still evolving. I’m only looking at Christian Bible stories, trying to understand what’s happening in the stories, without trying to decide how much of it ever actually happened or ever possibly could happen.

Now it looks to me like the kingdom of God has material and spiritual dimensions. Spiritually, the kingdom of God is whenever and wherever two or more people are practicing God’s prescriptions together because of their love for Him. From the time of Moses onward, that could be people practicing the laws of Moses however they understand them. In the gospel stories, Jesus says that He is the king of that kingdom, so whatever two or more people do together for Him is part of that kingdom, no matter if they’re following the laws of Moses or not.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I stand by what I said. He showed his belief with his obedience. The two are inseparable.
I agree. What Bible stories call “faith” and “belief” in God is the kind of love and trust that makes a person want to do what He says, and doing what He says is impossible without that kind of faith and belief.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
And
Please don't say, Yes, and then contradict me. It makes me feel like either you didnt read me, or that you are being manipulative.

What I say was that Jew applies to all of the Children of Israel, and I gave the reasons why (because it was applied to all who went into Babylon, which were all the tribes if you include the refugees).

Don't play semantic games with me. Places have placenames. The word Israel has more than one meaning:
1. The new name of the individual Jacob.
2. The extended tribe/people descended from him, called Jews today.
3. The northern Kingdom that existed for a short period of time.
4. The nation state of Israel, either in the ancient past or today, both of which can be pointed to on a map.

Please, I can "apply" the term "tennis" to balls...…..BUT all balls are NOT tennis balls.
And the little nation state in the middle east today is NOT the "Israel" of the scriptures......it's that simple.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What do you mean? Halacha hardly goes by the Jerusalem Talmud.



What I was taught, if my memory is correct, is that the two Talmuds were meshed at a later date to form one, and since there were variations between the two at times on certain issues, halacha on those items are viewed as being a range that sets the limitations. However, since that was many moons ago, it's possible that maybe I screwed up-- maybe an age thingy. :emojconfused:
 
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