How do i know i'm ready?

[Valor]

This is very true, and unfortunate but it is the current reality of it. The *majority* of the human population is heavily influenced and inherently "controlled" by external means (ie: media influence, popular cultural/social morals, scare/fear tactics, endless examples). Everyone, including all of us are influenced.. the difference is we are *conscious* of it, and Work to Become Isolate from that and to Empower our own more Individual and Isolate Self and Reality. That is what, at least to me, makes the LHP Initiate apart from the rest of the population, and the endless Work of the Initiate.

So very true, It seems as though when we do right, no one remembers... but when we do wrong, no one forgets. And its sad, very sad that media promotes and cultivates our flaws, instead of rewarding our endeavors. :thud:

 

[Valor]

"And So It Begins"

​

The journey is in my hands alone, it's in stone that i may not become affiliated, however, it's odd i find this to be even more intriguing because it provides me with challenges far more rigorous than anticipated. I accept the blow with open arms, eyes and ears. I'm going to dip this disappointment in platinum, and share my results with the rest of you. Hopefully you may learn from me as much as I've learned from you, my affiliated friends. I'll begin sharing my personal Works, essays and findings this week. If they help to Awaken just one Initiate, i've done great.

Valor!

P.s. This thread is now dead.
​

 

[sinistercurrent]

If they help to Awaken just one Initiate, i've done great.

Perhaps, I think we shouldn't think in categories like initiate/non-initiate

I was a member 12 years before and left the ranks of the Temple, thus big part of my left-hand path initiation works outside of the Temple and its doctrine. Some weeks/monthes before I deceide to become a member of the Temple again, after exploring the left-hand path tradition in the authentics forms. I think the most important think is to know, that initiation is a part of life and that the Temple could be a mirror and a framework of the life of every Initiate. The Temple is not a monastery outside of the world. Its an expression of the Prince of Darkness, the individual essence in personal life. Initiation is not a theoretically things, the most important part of my initation based on human relationships, dancing, music, life, blood, pain, physical experiences and communication/reflection. Set is the individual presence behind these things. YHVH is the knowledge of being, Set is the knowledge of being as something other/separated. And for me, beside this, Set as the God of Storms is the patron of martial arts

 

[blackout]

You innitiate yourSelf...
and every thing in Your life.

No one can do that for you anyway.

Others can only possibly recognize that in you,
and share in that with you to some extent...
and they might even help you,
but only to a "degree".

The true degree to which an individual personally Xepers
is dependent alone on THEIR OWN personal innitiation.

To my understanding,
this also is the outlook of the ToS.

Before I knew hardly a thing about the ToS
i said i was "Self Innitiated".
This was, and still is the only thing that made/makes any sense to me.
I'm glad to understand that this is the same outlook of the Temple itself.

 

[blackout]

I mySelf would love to join the ToS,
truly,
and i would in a second,
but I lack the resources.

I have children,
No real help with them,
No money...
even to simply schedule a meeting,
to travel into the city to meet
with a Preist of the Temple...
is a difficulty of epic proportion for me.

I want to change my name legally.
I don't want to enter the Temple with my profane legal name.
I will CRINGE everytime someone uses it.
People here don't even use it anymore.
Only people who deal with my legal documents.
(work, school, govt.)
and of course my Dad.

I don't even want to stay here.
I could move with the kids,
start life over somewhere warm.
Where there is music.
Their dad is all for this.
There is nothing else he will even agree to.
but I am always sick/pained/exhausted and have no money.
How can I just pick up with 3 kids,
and move across the country,
with no one even to meet me there?
No friends, no family. No one.

I cannot even Xeper the damned arrangement of my house right now.
i cannot even get my own furniture and rooms rearranged.

how can i join the Temple.

honestly.

I have been stuck here,
in this position for a long time,
and nothing is budging.

I shifted my whole paradigm before this it is true.
I have gloried in WONDERFUL AND AMAZING Xeper.
But now I am stuck.
So stuck.
And have no idea what to do.

i don't put on airs for anyone.
I won't.
and I don't need to.


While i KNOW that I am Divine in nature,
Heiress of Source,
Designer of Self,
right now, I am heavily weighed down... and burdened by my humanity.

I do what I can to innitiate change
each and every day,
but nothing big moves.
Gravity will not give an inch.

So there you are.

 

[Valor]

Perhaps, I think we shouldn't think in categories like initiate/non-initiate

Let me be a bit clearer, in saying "Initiate" i mean all of those who intentionally act as LHP Practitioners. This doesn't include people that just decided to wear black today and know a secret hand shake or two.

And for me, beside this, Set as the God of Storms is the patron of martial arts

Yes, i relate to this lifestyle as well.

 

[L.Keane]

I do what I can to innitiate change
each and every day,
but nothing big moves.
Gravity will not give an inch.

So there you are.

UV, I am an obvious n00b here but I have to say that many of your posts that I have read have inspired me or at the very least caused pause for thought. As I understand Initiation and Becoming the first two lines of the above quote speaks volumes. How many people even look for change let a lone look for it every day. Big moves or not, searching for change, for Becoming, is difficult enough for most. I'm not writing this to blow violet coloured smoke up your ***, only indicate that from the posts I have observed you are making the best of a difficult situation where most would simply abandon any inkling of change for comfort and stasis. But I suspect you already know that! :yes:

Xeper,

LK

 

[Valor]

How many people even look for change let a lone look for it every day.
LK

Violet is well attuned, yes. She has my blessings and support. Her struggles are many concerning her personal life, but she pulls through for her children. This requires sacrifice, courage and change that many fail to produce.

Change alone can be a very intimidating horizon even for those accustomed to it.

 

[Valor]

How many people even look for change let a lone look for it every day.
LK

Violet is well attuned, yes. She has my blessings and support. Her struggles are many concerning her personal life, but she pulls through for her children. This requires sacrifice, courage and change that many alone fail to produce.

Change alone can be a very intimidating horizon even for those accustomed to it.

 

[ktf]

I notice in this thread that a person was denied affiliation with the TOS due to a criminal record and yet the application form claims that a criminal record does not automatically exclude one from membership. Does the TOS go on a case by case basis and if so what are the critaeria for judgement?

 

[Sireal]

ktf,

It depends entirely on the nature of the criminal record~say you did time (a couple weekends)for not paying a speeding ticket and got a record from that event, that is not regarded as a serious offence, or if you were charged and convicted of aggravated assault and have done nothing to remedy the facts-this would exclude affiliation automatically. If you sought specific help for and achieved a knowledge of this crime-your part in it and waited the ?time to apply for a pardon and got one, the application would be considered, not necessarily accepted, that would be up to the ED and supporting evidence, but it would given a fair examination.

 

[blackout]

I do what I can to innitiate change
each and every day,
but nothing big moves.
Gravity will not give an inch.

So there you are.

Gravity is giving.

Things are budging with a bit more ease now.

I have budged (large) furniture with my children.
Begun prepping the walls they blocked for priming, and painting.
I am almost ready to go out and debut mySelf,
the New Me... and my New Set List.
Two weeks it seems,
and I'll be hitting the whole town with my "glossies".

I was not ready before.
I am ready now.
(or at least as ready as I can reasonably expect to be)
Now there is only Confidence, Winning in'tent,
Personal Flair, and a "Win/Win" attitude necessary
to throw Wide the Invigorating Gates of Quest...
on the (next) Valley of "fear & unknown" beyond.

A couple "finishing" touches,
and I am Ready to turn the Key,
with well earned confidence,
and Step Out... to Initiate "The Quest of The NewSET list".

Violet is well attuned, yes. She has my blessings and support. Her struggles are many concerning her personal life, but she pulls through for her children. This requires sacrifice, courage and change that many alone fail to produce.

Change alone can be a very intimidating horizon even for those accustomed to it.

Thank you both L.Keane and Valor for your words of....recognition.
Each is like a Sword planted firmly in the ground, in my honor,
and I do appreciate it.

Valor,

You also have my blessings and support,
just so you know.
Life takes many unexpected turns,
and turns which we would not have chosen with intent,
(from the place we stand at today).
I don't have to tell you,
there is no "magickal place" from which to initiate...
but YOUR OWN SELF.

As a Setian, you do the Great Work WHEREVER you are.
Perhaps there is a Great Work for you to do
that can only be done outside the "ToS Walls".
I know it may be frowned upon,
but I will always carry with me
my own prefered (LHPesque) interpretations of the "Christ" mythos,
and I stand by the idea to this day,
that YOU are the Temple.
I am the Temple.

You have your own Unique Quest.
Such is true for each one of us.
Also we have each other here,
affilliated, unaffilliated... whatever.

That is one thing that I really love about this forum.

Christians... they schism and seperate ALL THE TIME.
They don't accept the "validity" or "equality"
of other christians' "version/s" of Xianity. (as in the "X" variable)
They infight over the "one TRUE Xianity".
They invalidate one another as individuals,
they invalidate each other as "conduits" of personal revelation,
they invalidate the "true nature" of the interpretive Quest,
they insist that "this" Temple/Church is the "right" one...
the "Best" one... the "Truest" one...
and the "others"....
the ones NOT "in" or affilitated with THEIR temple/church
are not getting the "whole deal"... or the "correct version".

I REALLY hated that.

I truly hope that WE... as a Brotherhood/Sisterhood of Setians...
transcending mortar and brick....can do better.

I realize that the ToS needs to put forth an EXEMPLARY face,
as it is PUBLICALLY recognized, incorporated and 501c3.
This in and of itSelf is an important work.
As well, there are deeper...
and even more important reasons the ToS,
as a Temple... in the Higher Sense...
must be care'ful & mind'ful of who enters in there.
It is unavoidable.

But this in NO WAY invalidates, or lessens
the Revelation or Power of Set BEYOND the ToS.
There are many important works of Xeper in Set.
Many.
There are also many understandings and experiences of Set & Xeper.
And they will each transForm the world/s they touch
in important and varied ways.

The 'X' variable in Xeper, is one of infinite possibility.

With Sword Raised,
~Violette~

 

[Darth Brooks]

To non ToS Setians:

What reason are there you have not decided to join?

I have never joined the Temple of Set for several reasons:

- I disagree with the commonly-cited definition of Set as "the Principle of Isolate Intelligence." As far as my own Work with Him is concerned, He is a living, thinking God, not a Platonic Form. I realize that not all ToS members view Him in the exact same way, but the "Principle of Isolate Intelligence" theory seems to be more popular than not.

- I disagree with their definition of "left hand path." I prefer to use this term in its original Tantric context, as a label for a ritual methodology, rather than for an ideology. E.g., using naked women as altars, using the "magickal" properties of bodily secretions, having sex during ritual...The basic theme being an attempt to reach higher states of consciousness through matter, rather than in spite of it. For me, "left hand path" vs. "right hand path" has nothing to do with whether you worship an external God or yourself as your own God, but with how you engage whatever you're trying to engage in ritual (e.g., an external God, your higher self, whatever).

- My approach to Set tends to be much more devotional than most. That is to say, I worship Set as my God, not myself. Yes, I actually pray to Him. I make offerings to Him. While I have nothing against others practicing self-worship, it is not something I have any interest in. I imagine that if I were to participate in any ToS group rituals, other participants would find my imput disruptive. I would also be frustrated by their approach and their methods, as well. I think it would be a waste of time on both sides, so I've never thought it would be a good idea to join.

However, when it comes to other people who wish to join the ToS, I say "more power to you." I don't need to join it myself, but I'm sure it can be a very helpful experience for others. In the end, you gotta do what you gotta do. And if I have misrepresented the Temple in any of my statements, I humbly apologize.

 

[blackout]

- I disagree with their definition of "left hand path." I prefer to use this term in its original Tantric context, as a label for a ritual methodology, rather than for an ideology. E.g., using naked women as altars, using the "magickal" properties of bodily secretions, having sex during ritual...The basic theme being an attempt to reach higher states of consciousness through matter, rather than in spite of it. For me, "left hand path" vs. "right hand path" has nothing to do with whether you worship an external God or yourself as your own God, but with how you engage whatever you're trying to engage in ritual (e.g., an external God, your higher self, whatever).

Would you mind explaining/contrasting the two ideas of LHP a bit more clearly for me?
Especially explaining that very last part?
It's the (notion of) HOW ... I'm interested in.
(and what exactly you mean by it)

Also... "higher states of consciousness through matter, rather than in spite of it."
(and what exactly you mean by it)

 

[Darth Brooks]

Would you mind explaining/contrasting the two ideas of LHP a bit more clearly for me?
Especially explaining that very last part?
It's the (notion of) HOW ... I'm interested in.
(and what exactly you mean by it)

Also... "higher states of consciousness through matter, rather than in spite of it."
(and what exactly you mean by it)

In Tantra, dakshinachara ("right-handed way") and vamachara ("left-handed way") can both be used to attain the same ultimate goals, like becoming one with a God or realizing one's true Self (which, in Tantra, can both possibly mean one and the same thing in some contexts). Either way, it's not the goals that define them, but their methods. Dakshinachara focuses on purity, self-restraint, abstinence, or even outright asceticism in its rituals. For instance, a Muslim is not "right hand path" because he or she worships an external God (Allah), but because he/she washes his/her hands before prayer, he/she goes to mosque fully clothed, he/she fasts during Ramadan, etc. The idea is to "reach heaven" or commune with the divine or become your higher Self by turning your back on the lusts and desires that keep you tied to this world.

But vamachara focuses on impurity, indulgence, or even outright orgies in its rituals. For instance, Church of Satan members aren't "left hand path" because they worship themselves as their own gods; they're left hand path because they're free to use naked people for their altars, or they may practice their rituals in the nude, or they may practice autoerotica, or otherwise give vent to deep sexual urges during ritual. The idea is to "reach heaven" or whatever by indulging and *exhausting* the lusts and desires that keep you tied to this world. By the Tantric definitions (which pre-date Western usages of these term considerably), it's not what you believe but what you do in your rituals that makes you RHP or LHP.

It's even possible to jump from one path to the other and back without being entirely devoted to just one of them. Even the "Great Rite" in Wicca is an example of left-handed or vamachara ritual technology, even though Wicca is not a "left hand path religion." And the Carpocratian Gnostics were an example of Christianity being practiced in an LHP manner; they were reported to hold ritual orgies in honor of Christ. Though it is true that left hand path methodology lends itself more easily to the worship or emulation of darker, wrathful deities, like Kali Ma and Shiva.

Most Western LHPers seem to define "LHP vs. RHP" in ideological, rather than methodological terms, meaning that they define it as "Self-worship vs. external God-worship." I have nothing against other people using this definition if they please, but I prefer to go by the definitions that were used before they were adopted by Western occultists. I hope this is helpful.

 

[blackout]

Ok, I (think I) understand you.

So my question now is...
ummm, how do I say,
why would I want to either turn my back on,
or "extinguish" my lusts and desires?
And what exactly do you mean by
"tied to this world"?

Obviously if I am RULED by my lusts and desires
I will not attain "godhood"/"higher Self".
I will be their slave.
(weather I abstain to pain of lack, or I indulge to illness)
(ie sickly self denial OR slovenly self indulgence)


But to 'extinguish' or 'deny' them as more than a temporary exercise,
within a limited scope, for a specific purpose/initiation of Xeper...

well... what would be the point?

Or maybe you are not saying that.

Are you saying that we need to either deny or exhaust
our lusts and desires IN GENERAL
in order to live as our Higher Selves?

Do you see no intrinsic value in desire/lust/indulgence etc etc ?

Is it LHP in any way to say we are working to "extinguish"
Passion of Self altogether?

(maybe I don't actually understand you)

 

[blackout]

Maybe you're just saying that LHP is 'feeling free to be'.

However you're in'spired,
for your own purposes.

You wanna abstain?
abstain.
You wanna indulge?
indulge.
Do as you see fit(s).

Living free of doctrinal morality.
It the freedom to live, be, become
as you design Life and Self.

That's probably it.

 

[blackout]

Sometimes I go back and read my posts,
and they make me feel really stupid.

Well no. Really they make me feel Vulnerable.

 

[Darth Brooks]

Ok, I (think I) understand you.

So my question now is...
ummm, how do I say,
why would I want to either turn my back on,
or "extinguish" my lusts and desires?
And what exactly do you mean by
"tied to this world"?

Vamachara and dakshinachara both work on the same premise - that human beings are really spirtual beings who are "trapped" in the material world. The more attached we are to material existence, the more likely we are to be reincarnated and "trapped" all over again. Both vamachara and dakshinachara are used to bridge the gap between human beings and the higher spiritual realm to which we really belong, resulting with enlightenment or realization of the higher Self. But the key to both is detachment. They essentially represent two methods for detachment: detachment by abstinence and detachment by indulgence, in which the "prison" of the body is used against itself. It may be likened to intentionally indulging in something over and over again until you are "jaded" with it and it no longer holds any interest for you - e.g., "Been there, done that." In more extreme forms vamachara also involves "jading" oneself to one's fears of death and the ugly, filthy side of life. The Aghoris, an LHP sect in India, went so far as to make their initiates sleep with corpses, among other things. One vamachara yogin put it like this:

"By the same acts that cause some to be reborn in hell for a thousand years, the yogin gains eternal salvation."

- Bowker, John. God: A Brief History. DK Publishing Inc. 2002.

Obviously if I am RULED by my lusts and desires

I will not attain "godhood"/"higher Self".
I will be their slave.
(weather I abstain to pain of lack, or I indulge to illness)
(ie sickly self denial OR slovenly self indulgence)

Indeed. But both dakshinachara and vamachara aim to *master* our lusts and desires. They just have opposite methods for doing it.

But to 'extinguish' or 'deny' them as more than a temporary exercise,

within a limited scope, for a specific purpose/initiation of Xeper...

well... what would be the point?

I find that the Setian desire to khepher into a divine state that is no longer dependent on the material world, and that can transcend death, bears much more than a passing resemblance to Tantric goals. I also find that Set's nature - as the wild, rebellious, abrasive, lustful, and destructive Thunder God of Egypt - is entirely consistent with the vamachara principles of confronting the dark, brutal, sensual, filthy, and obscene aspects of life, and of using them as a "springboard" into the higher spiritual realm. After all, Osiris would never have risen from the dead and become King of the afterworld, had he not first been drowned and dismembered to pieces by Set.

Are you saying that we need to either deny or exhaust

our lusts and desires IN GENERAL
in order to live as our Higher Selves?

I'm saying that I agree with the Tantric principle that we are closed off from our higher Selves by the material world, and that I agree with the left hand path vamachara principle of getting around this problem by "jading" myself to the material world and mastering the desires that keep me attached to it. I don't recall saying anything about what "we" need to do. It was never my purpose in this discussion to persuade or dissuade anyone here of anything.

Do you see no intrinsic value in desire/lust/indulgence etc etc ?

Is it LHP in any way to say we are working to "extinguish"
Passion of Self altogether?

There's that "we" again. Yes, it is LHP in every way to say I am working to exhaust the passions that keep me attached to this world (rather than deny them). This is LHP by the original definition of LHP, long before Helena Blavatsky, Aleister Crowley, Anton LaVey, and Michael Aquino re-defined it to fit their own ideologies. I agree with Daelach in that I personally regard the Western LHP as a corruption, rather than a refinement or evolution, of the Eastern LHP. But this doesn't mean I expect everyone else to agree with me.


Perhaps I am mistaken but you seem to think I'm trying to "speak for" everyone else who identifies as LHP. I'm not; I'm speaking only for myself. I'm not saying that you or anyone else has to use the definition I prefer. So I'm a little confused as to why you think I'm trying to say what "we" need to do. My purpose was to explain, amicably, why I'm not a member of the Temple of Set, which is partly because of my disagreement with the ToS definition for "left hand path."

 

[blackout]

Perhaps I am mistaken but you seem to think I'm trying to "speak for" everyone else who identifies as LHP. I'm not; I'm speaking only for myself. I'm not saying that you or anyone else has to use the definition I prefer. So I'm a little confused as to why you think I'm trying to say what "we" need to do. My purpose was to explain, amicably, why I'm not a member of the Temple of Set, which is partly because of my disagreement with the ToS definition for "left hand path."

Nope not at all.

I was just seeking to understand what you were saying.
Sorry if my wording seemed to indicate otherwise.

I somehow doubt I'm in keeping with certain western LHP "norms" mySelf.
(which sometimes makes me feel like an outsider,
in the only place I feel I belong at all.)
Half the questions I ask others
turn out to be me "probing" mySelf anyway.

Meant no offence.