How do members of other religions explain Christian faith healing?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Statistically speaking, faith healing is a concept that happens predominantly in Christianity and, although miraculous healing has occurred in other religions too, the numbers seem to be higher among Christians. There are several Christian denominations (The Last Reformation, the Charismatics etc.) who focus on healing people through the power of prayer. You can find thousands of videos related to Christian faith healing on YouTube.

Faith healing - Wikipedia

How do members of other religions explain the numerous healing cases recorded within Christianity? And before you ask me how Christians view the miracles of other religions, let me go ahead and say that there's a lot of debate about it, but in the end we have concluded that we don't really have a clear answer. Is that the same view non-Christians have or do you have other opinions?

 

[Revoltingest]

There's been some interesting work studying the benefits of placebos.
Not only do they offer efficacy when believed in, but even when the
patient knows it's a placebo, there's still a benefit. Whether based upon
religion or faux-pharmaceuticals, the effect is real. Human physiology
sure is surprising & complicated.
Ref....
Placebo Effect: A Cure in the Mind

 

[sayak83]

Statistically speaking, faith healing is a concept that happens predominantly in Christianity and, although miraculous healing has occurred in other religions too, the numbers seem to be higher among Christians. There are several Christian denominations (The Last Reformation, the Charismatics etc.) who focus on healing people through the power of prayer. You can find thousands of videos related to Christian faith healing on YouTube.

Faith healing - Wikipedia

How do members of other religions explain the numerous healing cases recorded within Christianity? And before you ask me how Christians view the miracles of other religions, let me go ahead and say that there's a lot of debate about it, but in the end we have concluded that we don't really have a clear answer. Is that the same view non-Christians have or do you have other opinions?

It looks like a scam that any competent magician can reproduce.
Derren Brown reveals 'faith healing' trick - Premier

Detailed interview

Derren Brown on hypnosis, faith-healing and religion

 

[Quintessence]

Christians interpret energy work and spellcraft through a Christian lens; non-Christians interpret it through their own. It's pretty much that straightforward. I'm not a fan of what I've seen of the Christian practices and interpretations.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

It looks like a scam that any competent magician can reproduce.
Derren Brown reveals 'faith healing' trick - Premier

Detailed interview

Derren Brown on hypnosis, faith-healing and religion

There are several questionable statements in that article:
- "adrenaline kills pain" - while adrenaline helps mask injury pain to prevent humans to be able to escape after having been harmed, adrenaline also increases the symptoms of anxiety/panic. Panic is good in situations where a human has to escape from danger, but in situations in which there is no actual danger (such as being on stage) and in which flight from the fight of flight response is not an option, adrenaline actually increases self-awareness. That's why when people have anxiety and panic attacks they begin to feel every minor pain from their body more acutely than it actually is, and more even, begin to feel painful sensations that they don't normally have (burning and stinging through the body are common sensations associated with anxiety). Adrenalin would, in the case of faith healing, increase the person's focus on their pains and, as a result, make the pains worse, because that's how science says the human mind functions functions: The pain-anxiety-depression connection - Harvard Health. Also, he seems to be referring to faith healers who make a show out of faith healing. What about all those people who heal people on the streets? Just look up "The Last Reformation" and their street healing. No lights, no spectators, no stage. Just two people and a camcorder.
- "when you go to these events as a believer, your know what's supposed to happen" - what about all the nonbelievers and members of other religions who experience healing? Just a single search on YouTube for the words "Muslim", "healed" and "Jesus" returns 300,000 videos: muslim healed jesus - YouTube

 

[sayak83]

There are several questionable statements in that article:
- "adrenaline kills pain" - while adrenaline helps mask injury pain to prevent humans to be able to escape after having been harmed, adrenaline also increases the symptoms of anxiety/panic. Panic is good in situations where a human has to escape from danger, but in situations in which there is no actual danger (such as being on stage) and in which flight from the fight of flight response is not an option, adrenaline actually increases self-awareness. That's why when people have anxiety and panic attacks they begin to feel every minor pain from their body more acutely than it actually is, and more even, begin to feel painful sensations that they don't normally have (burning and stinging through the body are common sensations associated with anxiety). Adrenalin would, in the case of faith healing, increase the person's focus on their pains and, as a result, make the pains worse, because that's how science says the human mind functions functions: The pain-anxiety-depression connection - Harvard Health. Also, he seems to be referring to faith healers who make a show out of faith healing. What about all those people who heal people on the street. Just look up "The Last Reformation" and their street healing. No lights, no spectators, no stage. Just two people and a camcorder.
- "when you go to these events as a believer, your know what's supposed to happen" - what about all the nonbelievers and members of other religions who experience healing? Just a single search on YouTube for the words "Muslim", "healed" and "Jesus" returns 300,000 videos: muslim healed jesus - YouTube

You should read the interview in the second post. The effects can be reproduced for nonbelievers. The important thing is not the explanation, which are speculative, but that magicians know how to reproduce all these healing effects. This clearly shows that the explanation of these effects (whatever they are) is psychological similar to hypnosis. The psychological effects are real, and sometimes long-lasting (again see interview), but what they are not is an intervention of a deity on the human body.

I have absolute zero trust on testimonials and You Tube videos. There would be hundreds and thousands of posts of efficacy of astrology as well. The fact remains that none of these healings have ever been verified to have real biological effect in a scientific settings. If you have scientific studies showing otherwise, post them. Otherwise testimonials and you tube videos are not going to be convincing.


True objective analysis of in efficacy and dangers of faith healing

Faith Healing

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

The important thing is not the explanation, which are speculative, but that magicians know how to reproduce all these healing effects.

I disagree. The explanation is very important because understanding whether it is scientifically explainable or not is fundamental to investigating whether we should further search for an explanation in the natural or the supernatural realms. And if the natural realms fails to provide an explanation and we venture into the supernatural, we are faced with the nature of the supernatural force it comes from, because many religions claim that both God and Satan / Iblis can perform supernatural acts. Pharaoh's magicians could perform miracles similar to Moses' with the help of demons.

This clearly shows that the explanation of these effects (whatever they are) is psychological similar to hypnosis.

Does it really show that clearly? Cause it doesn't seem that way to me. It just shows two contrasting realities: one one hand we have a magician with knowledge about hypnotism and other skills of mind manipulation, and on the other hand we have a person who prays for an atheist stranger for a few seconds on the street and said stranger's pain decreases from 10 to 2 in a matter of seconds.

The psychological effects are real, and sometimes long-lasting (again see interview), but what they are not is an intervention of a deity on the human body.

I did skim through the interview, and the explanations seem pseudo-scientific to me.

"The way I see it is that William James thing, acting ‘as if’. You give yourself permission to act ‘as if’ a thing isn’t a problem. There’s this story you tell yourself every day – ‘I’ve got a bad back and it’s a thing I live with’. The healing stops that story in its tracks, makes you stop and question it."

You just stop focusing on the pain? Most people who have ever had severe pain would agree that that is a nonsensical claim. Also, considering that the very first thing that a healer tells the people (in almost all the videos I've watched) is to check and double check your pain level before and after they pray for them. It doesn't seem like they're trying to distract their attention from the pain at all. They actually ask them several times to move a little and check the part of their bodies that was hurting, meaning to actually focus on the pain.

There are also the cases of people who are not easily hypnotizible, such as children and very elderly people who can barely hear and see.

I have absolute zero trust on testimonials and You Tube videos.

Why?

There would be hundreds and thousands of posts of efficacy of astrology as well.

I don't understand what you mean. Are you trying to use your lack of believe in astrology's validity as an argument or...? When has astrology been scientifically disproved?

The fact remains that none of these healings have ever been verified to have real biological effect in a scientific settings.

And whose fault is that? Is it the healed person's duty to go contact a team of medical researchers or is it science's duty to investigate? Considering that there are thousands of people who have put their identities online claiming that they have been healed, where are the scientific books with the names of the researchers who have contacted these people to ask them to be subjected to scientific investigations? If all of these people were lying, surely these scientists would have plenty of cases to write many comprehensive books to destroy faith healers.

If you have scientific studies showing otherwise, post them. Otherwise testimonials and you tube videos are not going to be convincing.

Again, why do I have to provide scientific evidence to show that something that happens actually happens because of the reasons that the people who make it happen claim it happens? If you have scientific studies to show clearly that the people in those testimonials are lying, go ahead and post them. Most of those people have given their names and shown their faces. Why aren't scientists contacting them to investigate?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

There are several questionable statements in that article:
- "adrenaline kills pain" - while adrenaline helps mask injury pain to prevent humans to be able to escape after having been harmed, adrenaline also increases the symptoms of anxiety/panic. Panic is good in situations where a human has to escape from danger, but in situations in which there is no actual danger (such as being on stage) and in which flight from the fight of flight response is not an option, adrenaline actually increases self-awareness. That's why when people have anxiety and panic attacks they begin to feel every minor pain from their body more acutely than it actually is, and more even, begin to feel painful sensations that they don't normally have (burning and stinging through the body are common sensations associated with anxiety). Adrenalin would, in the case of faith healing, increase the person's focus on their pains and, as a result, make the pains worse, because that's how science says the human mind functions functions: The pain-anxiety-depression connection - Harvard Health. Also, he seems to be referring to faith healers who make a show out of faith healing. What about all those people who heal people on the streets? Just look up "The Last Reformation" and their street healing. No lights, no spectators, no stage. Just two people and a camcorder.
- "when you go to these events as a believer, your know what's supposed to happen" - what about all the nonbelievers and members of other religions who experience healing? Just a single search on YouTube for the words "Muslim", "healed" and "Jesus" returns 300,000 videos: muslim healed jesus - YouTube

Regardless of topic, 'miracles' or unusual occurrences shown on YouTube simply aren't convincing. For every one you believe in, you could also find ten you are sceptical of, whether they are eagles attacking puppies, exploding toasters, ghosts, or whatever.
Further, '300,000 videos' is proof of nothing. It's not like you've watched them and judged them accurate. It's simply a topic count. You'd be better off linking to particular instances you find credible, I would guess.

As for Christian faith healing, I spend no more time thinking about it than I do Indian healers, and have about as much belief in it's veracity.

 

[sayak83]

I disagree. The explanation is very important because understanding whether it is scientifically explainable or not is fundamental to investigating whether we should further search for an explanation in the natural or the supernatural realms. And if the natural realms fails to provide an explanation and we venture into the supernatural, we are faced with the nature of the supernatural force it comes from, because many religions claim that both God and Satan / Iblis can perform supernatural acts. Pharaoh's magicians could perform miracles similar to Moses' with the help of demons.


Does it really show that clearly? Cause it doesn't seem that way to me. It just shows two contrasting realities: one one hand we have a magician with knowledge about hypnotism and other skills of mind manipulation, and on the other hand we have a person who prays for an atheist stranger for a few seconds on the street and said stranger's pain decreases from 10 to 2 in a matter of seconds.


I did skim through the interview, and the explanations seem pseudo-scientific to me.

"The way I see it is that William James thing, acting ‘as if’. You give yourself permission to act ‘as if’ a thing isn’t a problem. There’s this story you tell yourself every day – ‘I’ve got a bad back and it’s a thing I live with’. The healing stops that story in its tracks, makes you stop and question it."

You just stop focusing on the pain? Most people who have ever had severe pain would agree that that is a nonsensical claim. Also, considering that the very first thing that a healer tells the people (in almost all the videos I've watched) is to check and double check your pain level before and after they pray for them. It doesn't seem like they're trying to distract their attention from the pain at all. They actually ask them several times to move a little and check the part of their bodies that was hurting, meaning to actually focus on the pain.

There are also the cases of people who are not easily hypnotizible, such as children and very elderly people who can barely hear and see.


Why?


I don't understand what you mean. Are you trying to use your lack of believe in astrology's validity as an argument or...? When has astrology been scientifically disproved?


And whose fault is that? Is it the healed person's duty to go contact a team of medical researchers or is it science's duty to investigate? Considering that there are thousands of people who have put their identities online claiming that they have been healed, where are the scientific books with the names of the researchers who have contacted these people to ask them to be subjected to scientific investigations? If all of these people were lying, surely these scientists would have plenty of cases to write many comprehensive books to destroy faith healers.


Again, why do I have to provide scientific evidence to show that something that happens actually happens because of the reasons that the people who make it happen claim it happens? If you have scientific studies to show clearly that the people in those testimonials are lying, go ahead and post them. Most of those people have given their names and shown their faces. Why aren't scientists contacting them to investigate?

You can believe what you want and I can believe what I want. There is no issue on that at all. But the moment you say that your claim has to be believed by me, what I would require that those claims are verified by the standards I trust, and that is that of science.
In this thread, I have no intention of convincing you of what I believe. You asked our opinions, and I provided you what I believe and the reasons why. That is all.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

You'd be better off linking to particular instances you find credible,

You want me to link to thousands of videos?

 

[Muslim-UK]

Faith healing, nothing but a scam for the most part:

 

[George-ananda]

Statistically speaking, faith healing is a concept that happens predominantly in Christianity and, although miraculous healing has occurred in other religions too, the numbers seem to be higher among Christians. There are several Christian denominations (The Last Reformation, the Charismatics etc.) who focus on healing people through the power of prayer. You can find thousands of videos related to Christian faith healing on YouTube.

Faith healing - Wikipedia

How do members of other religions explain the numerous healing cases recorded within Christianity? And before you ask me how Christians view the miracles of other religions, let me go ahead and say that there's a lot of debate about it, but in the end we have concluded that we don't really have a clear answer. Is that the same view non-Christians have or do you have other opinions?

I believe genuine faith healings do occur. I believe hoaxes do occur. I believe temporary psychosomatic placebo effects do occur.

So, my opinion is that it is a complex subject.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You want me to link to thousands of videos?

If you find thousands of them personally credible, then be my guest, although I'd suggest you might be a wee-bit fixated, that being the case.
No, I was thinking more like half a dozen.

But don't bother doing it for me...I don't have an open mind on this one. Just a general comment if you're trying to convince people.

 

[Stevicus]

Statistically speaking, faith healing is a concept that happens predominantly in Christianity and, although miraculous healing has occurred in other religions too, the numbers seem to be higher among Christians. There are several Christian denominations (The Last Reformation, the Charismatics etc.) who focus on healing people through the power of prayer. You can find thousands of videos related to Christian faith healing on YouTube.

Faith healing - Wikipedia

How do members of other religions explain the numerous healing cases recorded within Christianity? And before you ask me how Christians view the miracles of other religions, let me go ahead and say that there's a lot of debate about it, but in the end we have concluded that we don't really have a clear answer. Is that the same view non-Christians have or do you have other opinions?

I don't believe in faith healing, although I might be in the "I want to believe" camp. At the way things are going, a faith healer might be the only healthcare we'll be able to afford.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

for the most part:

"For the most part" implies that you believe that there are cases which are true. Explain those "few" cases which are not scam. Even if there's just one single case of real faith healing outside of Islam, explain that one single case. Why did Allah heal that one Christian who prayed to Jesus or that one Hindu who prayed to Vishnu etc.?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Hogwash and dangerous ignorance. -Heathen perspective

 

[Father Heathen]

Probably the same way Christians explain the members' of other religions faith healing.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Probably the same way Christians explain the members' of other religions faith healing.

The difference is that other religions' faith healing usually involves some sort of practices (Yoga, fasting, acupuncture, presopuncture, meditation etc.) that take time and effort on the sick person's part, while Christianity's faith healing involves someone else briefly praying for you and laying their hands over your body for a few seconds.

 

[Akivah]

How do members of other religions explain the numerous healing cases recorded within Christianity? And before you ask me how Christians view the miracles of other religions, let me go ahead and say that there's a lot of debate about it, but in the end we have concluded that we don't really have a clear answer. Is that the same view non-Christians have or do you have other opinions?

Prayer helps with healing, both the sick being prayed for, and the healthy doing the praying. However, it is not a sole means of cure. Prayer goes hand-in-hand with medical care. So I believe those people that advocate prayer as the only way to be treated are doing a disservice to the ill.

Faith healing is not unique to Christianity. Every religion claims to experience miracles. In Judaism, miracles are never used as proofs.

 

[sun rise]

I believe genuine faith healings do occur. I believe hoaxes do occur. I believe temporary psychosomatic placebo effects do occur.

So, my opinion is that it is a complex subject.

Yes. And to me it's more than that - it's playing with illusion. Getting what someone wants is not necessarily getting what that person needs.