How do we know a Prophet is a Prophet and sent by God?

[loverofhumanity]

Can he trace his lineage to Judah? I doubt that. In any case, Jesus is the lion of Judah.

Baha’u’llah was descended from Abraham and through Jesse, the father of David.

The verse Christians read at Christmas “For unto us a son is born…. refers word for word to Baha’u’llah. Christ was the Son not the everlasting Father and He said “My kingdom is not of this world’. But Baha’u’llah is the Father and brought the Kingdom of God on earth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Jesus is the Spirit of truth.

He could; but he did not because while he was in the world they were supposed to come to him directly. As he taught "Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you" By this he meant that while he was there they should walk with him because there was nothing more important at that time.

He did breathe on them and say "Receive ye the holy Ghost" (John 20:22) but not yet did they receive it. The true breath came on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. Here we see they heard a sound as of a rushing mighty wind. This was the breath of Jesus Christ which is the holy Spirit.


It is whta they received on the day of Pentecost and what we still receive now if we seek for it. As Peter said in Acts 2:38. God will still give the Spirit to those who obey and seek for it.

We don't need Baha'u'llah' or anyone else more than we need the holy Spirit. If you have that then you are in the kingdom of God and you're beginning to see the kingdom of God. This is why I said this (the holy Spirit of truth) is the true interpretation of the scriptures. Without This ... you may not understand the scriptures.

Reflect on history? This is what the Pharisees and Sadducees did exactly. They quoted texts from their scriptures and interpreted them in a manner to show Christ was a false messiah. This is exactly the method Christians use to support their bias that Baha’u’llah is false, yet those who are not biased readily see that He was the Father spoken of by Jesus.

The problem is one of attachment to names. In Revelation, Christ clearly states twice that He will come with a new name. So this explains that when the sects of Christianity say ‘here is Christ, there is Christ do not listen’ it is a false teaching, because Christ will not return with the name Christ.

So Christians find an interpretation, like the Pharisees, which denies Baha’u’llah and go with it instead of opening their hearts to Baha’u’llah. Sure it’s a severe test but remember that purity of heart and motive are the conditions Christ gave for ‘seeing God. And if someone has in his heart the motive to concoct an interpretation which denies Baha’u’llah, then they shall have deprived themselves we believe, of the joy and glad tidings of Christ returned as Baha’u’llah.

Whenever we announce these joyful tidings Christians say we are wrong, that they know the true meaning, but do Christians ever question themselves if they have not got it wrong and maybe Baha’is are telling them the truth? No, they always denounce us as impostors and liars, misled by the devil. These are the same words used to defame Christ and His disciples. Yet today, places where the disciples sat are considered sacred. Then they were considered criminals, today saints.

Time will eventually reveal the truth but how regrettable if a Christian fails to recognise His Master on His return.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

To follow the councels of the Pen of the Most High.


There are only two options we get to pursue the Divine option and the Satanic option. Both are spiritual states of being.

A person is indeed defined by their spiritual capacity, which reflects from their own person into their life, their deeds and their words.

I would offer that a true prophet does understand who they are, and do not offer "I must be a prophet", they offer I Am,I Am, I Am the Promised One. A claim that makes new all creation. That is one sign, which cannot be demonstrated, nor supported by a false prophet.

Regards Tony

I dislike the hubris of prophets.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I dislike the hubris of prophets.

The hubris is all of our own making.

To dislike the Message offered by a Prophet, sent by God, is akin to the dislike of love and unity and our only path to peace, as that is why a Prophet is given to humanity. They are a gift of God to enable us to embrace peace, love and unity.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bible comes up with the requirements CG.

Jesus offered Elijah always comes first, and in the 'Day of God', Elijah was also the 'Gate' a Messenger from God that prepared all Humanity for the Message of the 'Glory of God'.

It is teaching us that these Gates and the Messengers are all from the same One God.

Regards Tony

Elijah nor John the Baptist were manifestations. And with the Bab, who was his "Elijah" if "Elijah" always comes first. And I don't think the Bible should be lumped together with the NT and treated as if it is a Christian book. Jewish expectations and interpretations of their Messiah too easily get ignored.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not interpret scriptures but rely on the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Whom I believe to be Baha’u’llah, Who unsealed the meanings of the Book as stated in Revelation. No one else other than Him, not any man in heaven or on earth including yourself, can claim to have unsealed the true interpretation according to Rev 5:5.

His Book of Certitude is the unsealing of the Book we believe. It broke open the seals revealing the true meaning and interpretation of the Books.

But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep.Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

Did Baha'u'llah interpret and give the "true" meanings to the book of Revelation? I know Abdul Baha' gave his interpretations of a couple of chapters in SAQ. So where can Baha'u'llah's interpretation be found? Oh, and really... He's from the tribe of Judah?

 

[CG Didymus]

Can he trace his lineage to Judah? I doubt that. In any case, Jesus is the lion of Judah.

Not that I believe Christian interpretations, but when it comes to the resurrection of Jesus and who is the "Lamb" and the "lion" of Judah, it seems to me that the NT teaches us that Jesus did come back to life and it is Jesus being spoken of in Revelation. Of course that can't be for Baha'is. They need the body of Jesus dead and gone, and they need their prophet to be the Promised One... and not just for Judaism and Christianity, but of all the major religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Elijah nor John the Baptist were manifestations. And with the Bab, who was his "Elijah" if "Elijah" always comes first. And I don't think the Bible should be lumped together with the NT and treated as if it is a Christian book. Jewish expectations and interpretations of their Messiah too easily get ignored.

All the best CG.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha’u’llah was descended from Abraham and through Jesse, the father of David.

The verse Christians read at Christmas “For unto us a son is born…. refers word for word to Baha’u’llah. Christ was the Son not the everlasting Father and He said “My kingdom is not of this world’. But Baha’u’llah is the Father and brought the Kingdom of God on earth.

And who kept a copy of the genealogy all this time? And... other than in the Bible, where is there a record of Abraham being a real, historical person? I suppose in Islam and the Baha'i Faith? But I read a story about one of those ancient Jewish patriarchs, Noah, the Baha'i version didn't even mention a flood. Then I read a verse about the birth of Jesus in the Quran, there was no mention of a stable in Bethlehem. So, how and why should any of these stories be considered true and accurate? Unfortunately, it seems new stories are invented to fit into the beliefs of the new religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

All the best CG.

Regards Tony

And how does that answer the question? It doesn't. Which makes me very skeptical about the truth of the Baha'i Faith. If you're happy believing all of it as being true, fine. But why push your beliefs onto others? It kind of misses the point when you put your beliefs into a debate forum and then answer with, "All the best".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And how does that answer the question? It doesn't. Which makes me very skeptical about the truth of the Baha'i Faith. If you're happy believing all of it as being true, fine. But why push your beliefs onto others? It kind of misses the point when you put your beliefs into a debate forum and then answer with, "All the best".

I did not see a question mark. I saw a statement that was not structured as a question, as it offered one owns views.

The Bab indeed did have an Elijah, a couple in fact. The line went back to the late 1700's

"In the 1790s in Persia, Shaykh Ahmad (1753–1826) began a religious movement within Twelver Shia Islam. His followers, who became known as Shaykhis, were expecting the imminent appearance of the al-Qa'im of the Ahl al-Bayt, also called "the Mahdi". After Shaykh Ahmad's death, leadership passed to Kazim Rashti (1793–1843)........

......As of his death in December 1843, Kazim Rashti counselled his followers to leave their homes to seek the Mahdi, who, according to his prophecies, would soon appear. One of these followers, Mullá Husayn, after keeping vigil for 40 days in a mosque, travelled to Shiraz, where he met the Báb...."

Báb - Wikipedia

Mulla Husayn was named by the Bab as the Gate of the Gate, the first beleiver in this dispensation, what an amazing story CG. There is a song for that event.

It is easy to find all this information CG.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha’u’llah was descended from Abraham and through Jesse, the father of David.

Oh, these genealogies. I belong to the line of Sage Vasishtha, the family priest of Rama's dynasty, and Sage Upamanyu, who blessed Lord Krishna. But do not ask for proof.

Time will eventually reveal the truth but how regrettable if a Christian fails to recognize His Master on His return.

Who, according to you is the master that Christians fail to recognize? Did this master of Jesus give any proof of his authenticity?

To dislike the Message offered by a Prophet, sent by God, ..

Did the so-called prophet give the proof of his authenticity? Without proof, like in science, an assertion is invalid.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Did the so-called prophet give the proof of his authenticity? Without proof, like in science, an assertion is invalid.

Yes indeed they did, it is proof of the Spirit.

The greatest proofs are the teachings they offered. Who else in the mid 1800's could offered what was required for peace in this age?

"The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …" Baha'u'llah

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

It is easy to find all this information CG.

but not as easy to believe in the divinely appointed station of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
What is it that we recognize Them and most people don't?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

but not as easy to believe in the divinely appointed station of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
What is it that we recognize Them and most people don't?

This is indeed the quandary we face.

I see it is the warning given in all scriptures, that we should never stop searching for God.

Even when we embrace a Messenger, it does not mean we miraculously are gifted with all truth, it means one has embraced the door that can lead us to alternate understandings and great effort is required to embrace those new concepts, all the while balancing that new found Faith with logic, reason and science in this material world.

So maybe we can list what are proofs of the Spirit? Taken individually, they amount to little, grouped together, they may help us to evaluate and use logic and reason.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the Bible Jesus the Christ offered that by the Fruits one can know a Messenger of God. As such what are the fruits of the Spirit?

Here is one thought to start.

Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

So a Messenger/Prophet will portray these attributes.

The key here is that we can not Judge these fruits from a frame of reference outside the age they are given.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the Bible Jesus the Christ offered that by the Fruits one can know a Messenger of God. As such what are the fruits of the Spirit?

Here is one thought to start.

Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

So a Messenger/Prophet will portray these attributes.

The key here is that we can not Judge these fruits from a frame of reference outside the age they are given.

Regards Tony

Then there is Love.

1 John 4:16 "And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them."

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away"

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

This is indeed the quandary we face.

Not easy to believe in the divinely appointed station of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is the quandary some people such as @CG Didymus face.

I see it is the warning given in all scriptures, that we should never stop searching for God.

Seems to me a lot of people are searching, each in their own ways.

Even when we embrace a Messenger, it does not mean we miraculously are gifted with all truth, it means one has embraced the door that can lead us to alternate understandings

Of course we do not have all truth as only God has all truth, but if seekers don't open the door and look at what is in the next room, they won't find anything.

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

“Again, a man proclaims: ‘There lies a garden in which there are trees with broken branches bearing no fruit, and the leaves thereof are faded and yellow! In that garden, also, there are flowering plants with no blooms, and rose bushes withered and dying—go not into that garden!’ A just man, hearing this account of the garden, would not be content without seeing for himself whether it be true or not. He, therefore, enters the garden, and behold, he finds it well tilled; the branches of the trees are sturdy and strong, being also loaded with the sweetest of ripe fruits amongst the luxuriance of beautiful green leaves. The flowering plants are bright with many-hued blossoms; the rose bushes are covered with fragrant and lovely roses and all is verdant and well tended.” Paris Talks, pp. 103-104

 

[Aupmanyav]

The greatest proofs are the teachings they offered. Who else in the mid 1800's could offered what was required for peace in this age?

If platonic statements were all, then why do you not accept Vivekananda, Gandhi and Martin Luther King as manifestations of God? That they did not say that they are manifestations of God indicates their honesty. Not all people are that honest.

This is indeed the quandary we face.
.. it does not mean we miraculously are gifted with all truth, ..

Nine manifestations and no proof! That is sure a quandary. One claimed to be God himself and the other did not even claim that he was a manifestation of any Allah, but you made him one.
That you consider what is in your book as "all truth" (Women are inferior to men and LGBTQ are abominations in the eyes of Allah), does not make it a truth for all people in the world.

Seems to me a lot of people are searching, each in their own ways.

Sorry, Trailblazer. I am not searching. I have searched and found no reason to believe in the God or manifestation fiction. I will not get my nose chopped to see the 'Emperor's New Clothes'.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is indeed the quandary we face.

I see it is the warning given in all scriptures, that we should never stop searching for God.

Even when we embrace a Messenger, it does not mean we miraculously are gifted with all truth, it means one has embraced the door that can lead us to alternate understandings and great effort is required to embrace those new concepts, all the while balancing that new found Faith with logic, reason and science in this material world.

So maybe we can list what are proofs of the Spirit? Taken individually, they amount to little, grouped together, they may help us to evaluate and use logic and reason.

Regards Tony

Scriptures and the prophecies found within them are so vague that several people can claim to have fulfilled them. And way too many of the answers given by Baha'is don't help clear things up. As it stands, there's reasons for Baha'is to believe and for others to question and doubt.

For me, it is still progressive revelation that causes me to doubt. Baha'i say all religions are one and from one God. Even if Baha'is limit it to only the major religions, there's still way too many differences between the major religions for it to make sense. Baha'is have to make somebody the manifestation of Hinduism, so they made it Krishna. But then they have to demote him from being an incarnation to a manifestation... and then they also have to do away with reincarnation. With Judaism, who are the manifestations? Is Adam and Noah manifestations or not? But then with Abraham and Moses, Baha'i promote them to being those special creations, manifestations of God, and not ordinary humans. Yet, Judaism doesn't even give them that special place, so why thousands of years later do Baha'is? Only to make it look as if their progression is something real. But Judaism has two and maybe four manifestations?

Then the things Baha'is do to Christianity. Baha'is dump Satan. Then they get rid of the resurrection but keep the virgin birth? But that's what new religions do. They rewrite and reinterpret the old religions in a way to make their new religion fit. Christianity did it to Judaism, and now Baha'is have done it to all the major religions. Yet, there's still no peace in the world. There are wars and rumors of wars. So what has changed? What has been fulfilled if the promise of peace hasn't happened? That's what The Messiah and that's what Jesus were supposed to do. Not come and go and leave the world in a worse condition but then claim that is because the world rejected him. But where is the prophecies that say the end time promised one would not establish peace? Where does it say he would be rejected?

Anyway, if you think you have the truth and are building a new world order, keep going. Afterall, for all I know you might be right.