How do you approach religious education with your children?

[texan1]

Thank you winstle8! I would also welcome such recommendations and have found all of the suggestions posted so far very helpful!

 

[Kungfuzed]

I didn't know your wife was LDS, Kungfuzed.

It's my ex-wife who is the mother of my daughter. My current wife is technically LDS, never got kicked out as far as I know, but isn't active and hasn't expressed any interest in religion.

Sounds like a good idea. That's how I was raised. Actually, it was more by example than my actually being taught. I think whether your daughter turns out to be a "questioner" or not may end up being part of her internal make-up more than anything else. I think you can teach your kids that it's okay to doubt and that it's NOT okay to just accept everything they're told. But as with everything else, some people are just more inclined to be skeptics and others are more inclined to be believers.

That's true. Some people are more inclined to believe what they are told and some people are more likely to question things. Whether that is nature or nurture is debatable.

 

[GadFly]

Texan1 did a good thing in bringing this thread to light. This may be the most important thread on the forum to date, especially for the parents on this forum. Parents in every social group I know of are interested in the same problems of raising children, just like this group. From experience I can tell you of a fact that no certain group has a monopoly on how to raise children to be successful in life nor is any group exempt from raising a child that is doomed to fail. I have witnessed 1000's of children grow up and be successful coming from families that were rich, poor, sophisticated, uneducated, well mannered, poorly mannered, atheist, religious zealots, honest, thieves, etc. I have had the pleasure to participate in many of these successful children's lives.

I have witnessed many children who have come from homes that the typical person would visualize to have all the opportunities to be successful in raising successful children but for particular, identifiable reasons, these families did not produce successful children. But once having identified what the real causes of a failing personality was (and were identified in these failing children and adolescence), I have witnessed a great turn around in these children's success ratio.

I point this out because there has been a lot of very good advice given on this thread on how to raise children. Yet, very little of the information provided here is the same information that is available that will ensure parents will be able to raise successful children, to intervene when a child is at-risk, or to immunize a child against failure. Be sure that I am not talking about my ideas but I have used these ideas to be successful in working with 1000's of children and I can assure you these ideas work. If you are curious and want more information, review response #12 in this thread and then be a responder to this thread. After you have goggled or read some of the material mentioned in response #12, if there is enough interest, I will break my anonymity long enough to discuss my successful use of child raising methods you will discover in your reading.
GadFly

 

[GadFly]

I am grappling with how to handle the subject of religion with my children. (They are small right now - not in school yet). Of course you don't need religion to teach a child to be compassionate and thoughtful, but Christianity has certainly had a large impact on our literature, culture, holidays and even curse words . Many family and friends attend church. They need to be exposed to it - I don't want them to be ignorant of it - it just shouldn't be taught as absolute fact. I don't want to inhibit the natural love and curiosity they have of the world around them. I want them to think for themselves.

Just curious as to how any agnostic or non-theist parents out there have handled this and what types of challenges you have run into as your children got older?

Texan1, did you have time to check out the references I provided on response #12?
GadFly

 

[texan1]

Hi Gadfly,

It is true what you say, parenting successfully is a concern for everyone. And every child is different and has different needs. I originally posted it here because my husband and I realized that we did not want to indoctrinate our children into the religion we grew up with, but we wanted to educate them in such a way that would allow them to make a healthy decision on their own, when they could better understand what it was all about. I thought it might be helpful to get insight from parents like us who are not members of a church, specifically about religious education. But I also know that religion (or lack thereof) is a very small part of the picture when it comes to parenting.

And thank you - I have ordered Learned Optimism as well as other references mentioned on this post. I look forward to reading them.

I also think that leading by example is so important. If I strive everyday to be a compassionate, tolerant, positive adult, it will be a great teacher for my kids. This is cheesy, but there is a lovely song from Stephen Sonheim's "Into the Woods" which I think rings so true:

Careful the things you say
Children will listen
Careful the things you do
Children will see and learn
Children may not obey, but children will listen
Children will look to you for which way to turn
To learn what to be
Careful before you say "Listen to me"
Children will listen

Careful the wish you make
Wishes are children
Careful the path they take
Wishes come true, not free
Careful the spell you cast
Not just on children
Sometimes the spell may last
Past what you can see
And turn against you
Careful the tale you tell
That is the spell
Children will listen

 

[Somkid]

I was talking to a professor of French from France the other day at the university where I work and he pointed out to me that the Thai students can not grasp the some of the greatest literary works because they have no concept of Judeo-Christian sources or references which are referred to quite often in Western writing, I think for this case alone it is good to expose them the the concepts not necessarily the religion. I teach my children Judeo-Christian concepts the same way I teach them Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythology they love it but don't take it seriously thus this will give them the ideas and concepts necessary when they are older to understand things like Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Daniel Defoe, Hemingway, etc. As far as religion itself I think it is a personal choice although it would be great if you can teach your children all that you know ultimately leave the decision up to them as far what they believe if they believe.

 

[GadFly]

I was talking to a professor of French from France the other day at the university where I work and he pointed out to me that the Thai students can not grasp the some of the greatest literary works because they have no concept of Judeo-Christian sources or references which are referred to quite often in Western writing, I think for this case alone it is good to expose them the the concepts not necessarily the religion. I teach my children Judeo-Christian concepts the same way I teach them Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythology they love it but don't take it seriously thus this will give them the ideas and concepts necessary when they are older to understand things like Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Daniel Defoe, Hemingway, etc. As far as religion itself I think it is a personal choice although it would be great if you can teach your children all that you know ultimately leave the decision up to them as far what they believe if they believe.

What you say about raising children is good and there is value in what you say. Children need to learn to have an open mind to new concepts and be able to interpret Roman and Egyptian mythology as well as Hemingway, Shakespeare, and Plato among others. One thing that is worse than not being able to reflective read these works is to not have a moral base from which to judge these new ideas. It is not necessarily bad or even important if a child grows up with incorrect ideas about the universe. If you teach a child how to think as you go, the child will systematically disregard what the child considers myth and fairy tales. What is untrue will naturally fall aside. I can not remember when I stopped believing is Santa but one day it happened and I was not even aware of Santa's departure. (Actually I still believe in Santa)

In the meantime, children need something to believe in even if it is wrong. One reason Santa left me without pain being involved was that there were enough important beliefs in my life that the superficial ones did not impact me as the false ideas left me. Teach a child important values like the goal to learn to read or to learn to climb, to talk, to socialize, to accomplish task, to have friends, etc. Allow children to learn values that you may disagree with in you life simply to provide a stability in the child's life. Parents who are atheist, for example, would be better off to allow a child to be exposed to Christianity than to have the child to be ridiculed or treated differently because of it was from an atheistic background. There will come a time when a child will take pride is standing up and saying I do not believe this. Children have other things to learn before they are ready to say this. The conflict created by the pull of conflicting ideas may be worse than the Christian values society teaches the child. Besides, the influence reasonable parents have on children is so powerful that it would be difficult to imagine a situation where religious teachings would become a problem for a child in a home where religion was not stressed.

On the other hand, I came from a religious home where Christianity was stressed and I had all kinds of problems, not so much with religion, but with adjusting to life in general. It was not the religious ideas that I learned that caused developmental problems at all, but these problems were more related to what I was not taught which had little relationship to religion. What I needed to be shown was that I could learn to read, talk, socialize, have friends, communicate, love and accept recognition as well as the most graced child. It is those type of attributes that parents want to transmit to children. In short, transmit the kind of confidence of the little red train had going over the mountain. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.........
GadFly

 

[Nanda]

In the meantime, children need something to believe in even if it is wrong... Allow children to learn values that you may disagree with in you life simply to provide a stability in the child's life. Parents who are atheist, for example, would be better off to allow a child to be exposed to Christianity than to have the child to be ridiculed or treated differently because of it was from an atheistic background.

What do you mean by "exposed" to Christianity, telling your child that some people hold such beliefs, or that those beliefs are true? Because I agree with the former, but it seems to me that you're suggesting the latter (please correct me if I'm wrong) and that's just absurd.

 

[GadFly]

To Nanda
I agree. What I said was not very clear. This thread was written for atheist and it poses a problem for me to explain clearly to atheist how to raise children while my experience has been working with children of Christian parents. In this thread I was attempting to express child rearing beliefs without imposing my Christian beliefs upon these parents.

The point I wanted to make was parents did not have to worry so much about religious beliefs or imaginary beliefs (Santa) impacting children too seriously. If parents teach thinking skills to children, they will figure out what to believe when they are ready. I think Christian parents have less of a social challenge than atheist parents, if they allow their children to learn their religious values, because Christian values are in the vast majority in this country. One concerned parent in this thread pointed out that she was concerned that her child might be singled out in some way if the child's friends knew her parents were atheist. She also pointed out that she allowed her child to go to parties and church gatherings with friends that were Christians. She did have a giant concern for her child. For her, however, and I think she would agree with this, she would be better off to not make an issue out of what the child learned from her friends. If the child learns something about God that the parents disapproved of in their personal lives, that possibly would not be as bad as the affect of making an issue out of it with their child. That is all I was trying to say.

Some things can be taught under any religious banner, such as self confidence, work habits, sense of personal responsibility, goal setting, and reasoning skills. These are more important than teaching a child a particular religion or to be an atheist.

Your sign of Ugly Girl reminds me of a good example. Parents told their little girl she was beautiful from birth all the way through to grade school. Everybody the child knew agreed with the parents. In the first grade a little boy said to her that she was ugly. The little girl was crushed and her world fell apart. Another little girl was taught by parents that beauty was as beauty does, putting the emphasis on behavior rather than appearance. When this little girl went to school she never had a problem with anyone calling her names or saying she was ugly. If you understand this, you better understand what I was trying to say.
Regards, GadFly

 

[wednesday]

Religious values are dangerous in my opinion, i'd rather have my child take my own example of "tellings things the way they are and not the way they want them to be." Sure when they're old enough to question what is god and where do they come from you might butter them up and tell him that he's gona eat you if you dont do you homework, but i don't think i could raise a christian child, i would feel as though i'd kept him away from reality. But thats just how i feel about it, when the time comes around i might see things a little differently.

 

[Alceste]

The best thing you can do for children is to teach them the art of thinking. It's like the art of walking. How does a child learn to walk? By walking. How dose a child learn to talk? By talking. How does a child learn to think? By thinking. A parent is the most influencing force on a child. A child learns to walk but the parent often holds his hand. Talking and thinking are the same.

No matter what you teach a child, even if it is not truth, if you teach him how to think and reason, he will figure things out for himself. If you teach a child how to reason, you have in effect immunized him against many of the factors that put children at-risk as they grow older.GadFly

Absolutely! This was the approach of my parents, who were both very deeply involved in the United Church when I was born. Despite this, they didn't baptize us because they thought we should choose our own paths when we were old enough.

Neither my brother or myself are believers. I went to church growing and sang in the choir, but found the sermons so skull-crushingly boring nothing religious sank in. Meanwhile at home both my parents were voracious readers - novels for mom and non-fiction for dad - so the house was filled with books. I would say my own views were more influenced by reading than church.

Anyway, bla bla bla, me me me, the point is I am grateful that even though they were believers (mom still is, dad is not, and neither of them go to church) they trusted me to find my own way and gave me the resources to do so: curiosity about the world, a taste for reading, responsibility for my own education and exposure to many different schools of thought, and they never imposed a particular philosophy on me.

One positive thing I got out of church as a child was a sense of belonging to a community. If your kids end up going religious on you due to the influence of their friends, that will probably be the big draw. Maybe start doing something really fun and cool with your kids and other family and friends on Sundays while everyone else is at church so they won't feel they are missing out on a sense of belonging.