How do you believe the world will end?

[soulsurvivor]

Universal healthcare is the problem.

I'll say that to Jesus himself, and then show him these articles.

Good Luck! BTW, Jesus does not need articles to tell him what is right.

Jesus would not favor everyone paying (health) insurance.

Yes, he would want healthcare to be free.

 

[MJFlores]

What do you think?

That is what Jehovah's Witness Church think.
We must evaluate if one teaching conforms with the Bible, even with the New World Translation version.
We should test a doctrine if it is sound and if it is not then we should be prepared to reject it
Because keeping an unsound doctrine is destructive and basically a private interpretation or a dogma
Dogmas are man made rules and teachings and useless in front of God

The first resurrection begins to take place when Christ is installed as King. But his first act is to cleanse the heavens by evicting satan and his hordes from any further contact with the heavenly realm.

Revelation 12 Satan is no longer in heaven but he is here on earth
And he has been here for quite a long time. In fact he has his throne somewhere in Turkey. Revelation 2:13

And I believe, Satan is described in

Ezekiel 28:14-19 New International Version (NIV)
You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”

Those still alive when the judgment begins will not need to "sleep" but will be transformed instantaneously. Since most of the heavenly rulers are already placed in their positions, these will be a very small number.

It is true that when Christ Jesus comes to save his elect, some of them are alive
and will be transformed at the blink of the eye
from a body corruptible to a body which will not perish

Some have died in Christ will hear his voice and live as the Bible records:

John 5:25-29 New International Version (NIV)
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

How many will they be? Let the Bible answer:

Revelation 7:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,

.but the "unrighteous" who may have lived at time or in places where the knowledge of God was unknown and true worship was not taught or practiced, these will be given opportunity under the Kingdom's rule to be taught, and make their decisions during the 1,000 years of the Kingdom's rule.

Now that, am afraid, is not found in the Bible.
When time is up, everything is over - there is no more second chances or remedial course for another 1000 years. The thousand years mentioned in the Book of Revelation refers to:

Satan's sentence being bound in the Abyss - Revelation 20:2 Revelation 20:7
The reign of Christ with his elect in heaven - Revelation 20:4 Revelation 20:6
After a thousand years, the second resurrection - Revelation 20:5

Now with regards to people who do not know God's law, do not know Christ who have died without knowing and those barbaric tribes, the cannibals, the heathen, the nomads and so forth how will they be judged?
This is what the Bible says:

Romans 2:14-16 New International Version (NIV)
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Hence, there is no second serving or ministry - if God sends his son Jesus Christ to end the world - it would be an end game.

Also, the "graves" must be figurative, because the actual remains of many people are no longer in existence...

The graves are real and literal.
Have you read the valley of the bones?

Ezekiel 37 - read about it - kinda long. This is the preview of what will happen when the sea and the grave give up their dead. So bad people will be resurrected [second] and as well as those people who may enter the kingdom of God [but are not part of the Church of Christ].

Revelation 20:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Its not figuratively - it will be real come Judgement Day
How long and how will it feel to be there? This is what the Bible say:

Revelation 14:11 New International Version (NIV)
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Revelation 20:10 New International Version (NIV)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The lake of fire will be open for business
Day and Night 24/7
For ever and ever
Not figuratively - I'm afraid.

 

[Deeje]

I thought there was only one.

There is, but it does not teach reincarnation.

In order to reincarnate there must be a conscious part of man that survives death, in order to be placed into a new body. Reincarnation means that there is no memory of one's suppose former life. It also means being put into the body of another human, animal or insect......where will I find that in the Bible?

 

[Deeje]

Revelation 12 Satan is no longer in heaven but he is here on earth
And he has been here for quite a long time. In fact he has his throne somewhere in Turkey. Revelation 2:13

Satan has had free access to heaven and earth according to scripture, most likely from the days of Eden. In Job ch1 & 2 we read about this when God asked him where he came from. But he was not confined to the earth until Jesus was given authority from God to begin his rule....at the beginning of the "time of the end".

So in Revelation 2:13 are we to assume that satan really had a literal throne on earth, "somewhere in Turkey"?
In John’s Revelation, to the congregation in Pergamum, he mentioned that the city was “where Satan is dwelling” and that the Christians were thus living “where the throne of Satan is.” “The phrase has been referred to the complex of pagan cults, . . . but the main allusion is probably to emperor worship. This was where the worship of the divine emperor had been made the touchstone of civic loyalty under Domitian.” (according to the New Bible Dictionary, edited by J. Douglas, 1985, p. 912) Since the martyrdom of Antipas is mentioned in the same verse as “the throne of Satan,” Antipas may have been killed for refusing to worship Caesar.

Perhaps an additional factor bearing on the identification of Pergamom as being the location of 'satan's throne' was the prominent worship of Zeus, or Jupiter, the chief god among all the pagan gods and goddesses. Those worshiping Zeus could have other gods but were to view them as subordinate to Zeus. The Christians in Pergamum were commended, though, because they remained loyal in their exclusive devotion to the true God, Jehovah, and did not deny the faith despite dwelling ‘where the throne of Satan was.’

John 5:25-29 New International Version (NIV)
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

I am not a great fan of the NIV but I have used it and the NASB in my replies to you.

Who are these dead ones who hear the voice of the Son of God and who, on giving heed to it, live now? Very plainly they are not people who are already physically dead in the graves, because Jesus said that the hour when these dead ones would hear his voice and would live because of giving heed, "now.” That is, at the time that Jesus spoke.
So those who “live” now were people on earth once dead in a spiritual sense, in a figurative way, not those dead in actual graves.

How many will they be? Let the Bible answer:

Revelation 7:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

I will let the Bible answer.....

There are two groups mentioned in revelation 7...the first group is numbered...
"4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:" (NASB)
And it is said in Revelation 14:1-4 that these are "bought from the earth" as "firstfruits among mankind".

Revelation 7:9-10 then goes on to describe a second group, unnumbered, but attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb, Jesus Christ....so these too are Christians.

"9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

The first group are the chosen ones who are "resurrected first". Who are the second group?...

"13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:13-14 NASB)

The second group are Christian survivors of the "great tribulation", which takes place on earth.

 

[Deeje]

Now that, am afraid, is not found in the Bible.
When time is up, everything is over - there is no more second chances or remedial course for another 1000 years. The thousand years mentioned in the Book of Revelation refers to:

Satan's sentence being bound in the Abyss - Revelation 20:2 Revelation 20:7
The reign of Christ with his elect in heaven - Revelation 20:4 Revelation 20:6
After a thousand years, the second resurrection - Revelation 20:5

Now with regards to people who do not know God's law, do not know Christ who have died without knowing and those barbaric tribes, the cannibals, the heathen, the nomads and so forth how will they be judged?
This is what the Bible says:

For those alive at the time of judgment we see that there is no second chances for them. They are living in a judgment period and like the days of Noah, have no excuse to ignore the warnings given by God's servants concerning these troubled times.
Jesus said.....
37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be."

How many survived the flood? Why did they not understand what Noah was telling them? Because they didn't want to.

But for those in their graves who have paid sin's wages, (death being the highest penalty for any sin committed under God's law) these will by be given a second chance to make amends to God for any past deeds committed in ignorance. These will join the survivors of the great tribulation as the nucleus of the "new earth" which will be ruled by Christ and his chosen ones in the "new heavens". (2 Peter 3:13)

Romans 2:14-16 New International Version (NIV)
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Hence, there is no second serving or ministry - if God sends his son Jesus Christ to end the world - it would be an end game.

When Jesus said that his disciples would not reach everyone with the gospel before his return, (Matthew 10:23) Paul made it clear from the statement above that those who did not hear the good news would be judged on what is in their hearts and how they exercise their conscience....being "accused" or even 'excused' on that basis. The point is, God knows who will live and who will not.

The graves are real and literal.
Have you read the valley of the bones?

This is rather silly considering that literal bones are no longer in existence for many who have died. This is no literal valley...this was a prophesy of Ezekiel concerning the spiritual resurrection of the Jews in captivity to Babylon who never thought that they would see their homeland again. God promised that a remnant would return.

Ezekiel 37 - read about it - kinda long. This is the preview of what will happen when the sea and the grave give up their dead. So bad people will be resurrected [second] and as well as those people who may enter the kingdom of God [but are not part of the Church of Christ].

The two passages are not even related.

Revelation 20:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:13-15 is about the literal dead being released from hades (the grave, including those who died and were buried at sea) and death and hades are then thrown into "the lake of fire".
This means "the second death" according to the apostle John. Death and hades cannot be literally thrown into this lake, because it isn't a literal lake.

Its not figuratively - it will be real come Judgement Day
How long and how will it feel to be there? This is what the Bible say:

Revelation 14:11 New International Version (NIV)
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

It says "the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever." not that their torment will last forever....what is left after a wildfire has ravaged the land? Just the smouldering remains.....a reminder of what happened.

God is not a fiend who needs to torture anyone....death is enough. Fire is a symbol of complete destruction.
In order to torture people forever, God would have to given them eternal life...but that is only granted to the righteous...not the wicked. People are "destroyed" (body and soul) in "gehenna". (Matthew 10:28)

Revelation 20:10 New International Version (NIV)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The devil is a spirit so the lake must be spiritual. The word "tormented" was used for jailers who tormented their charges in prison. As death will be their prison forever, so their torment will be forever a reminder of what took place when God by his Christ, judged the earth and its inhabitants....which at that time includes satan and his demons.

 

[MJFlores]

So in Revelation 2:13 are we to assume that satan really had a literal throne on earth, "somewhere in Turkey"?

Revelation 1:1-3 New International Version (NIV)
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

So if this revelation from Jesus Christ say Satan has his throne there, Satan lives there.
I will take to heart what is written.
Who am I to question what the Lord Jesus revealed to John? Who am I?

Who are these dead ones who hear the voice of the Son of God and who, on giving heed to it, live now?

When Jesus Christ walked the earth, he brought back to life was his friend Lazarus who was in the state of decomposition and Jairus' daughter.

But wait there's more!

Matthew 27:50-53 New International Version (NIV)
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

The second group are Christian survivors of the "great tribulation", which takes place on earth.

And that great tribulation is?
Worldwide hardships, disasters, famine, war, pain, and suffering, is that it?
It is happening right now as we live.

John 16:33 New King James Version (NKJV)
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

But for those in their graves who have paid sin's wages, (death being the highest penalty for any sin committed under God's law) these will by be given a second chance to make amends to God for any past deeds committed in ignorance.

Everybody dies.
We have an age limit in this world.
Most don't reach that limit.

Genesis 6:3 Common English Bible (CEB)
The Lord said, “My breath will not remain in humans forever, because they are flesh. They will live one hundred twenty years.”

Everybody sins.
That is what the Bible says.
Because this world is sinful.

Romans 3:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

People are dying all the time. It does not mean they are paying the sins they have done.
Even infants die in their mother's womb. Toddlers die young not because they are evil.

Hebrews 9:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

So what is the judgement that will be handed out on Judgement Day?

Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is rather silly considering that literal bones are no longer in existence for many who have died.

Maybe I should repeat the Daniel verse again maybe it would help.

Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

in another version [more comprehensive] bible

Daniel 12:2 Expanded Bible (EXB)
Many people who ·have already died [L are sleeping in the land of the dust] will ·live again [L wake up]. Some will wake up to life forever, but some will wake up to ·shame [reproach] and ·disgrace [abhorrence] forever [Is. 26:19].

Will King David lose his chance to go to heaven by benefiting from the first resurrection?
King David's tomb is in Jerusalem and I believe he is dust by now. Most likely his bones have turned into dust because it has been a long time, hasn't it? 970 BC - that is something like 3,000 years old!
In his dying days, he wrote

Psalm 119:24-26 New International Version (NIV)
Your statutes are my delight;
they are my counselors.
ד Daleth
I am laid low in the dust;
preserve my life according to your word.
I gave an account of my ways and you answered me;
teach me your decrees.

King David wasn't taken up in heaven. During the apostles time, they confirmed that King David died, buried was still in Jerusalem when they preached about Jesus.

Acts 2:29 Common English Bible (CEB)
“Brothers and sisters, I can speak confidently about the patriarch David. He died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this very day.

Now if we were to open his tomb, most likely we would find a bit piece of dried bone and the rest of his bones turned into dust. Will he be resurrected when Jesus comes back? Of course he will be reassembled to join Jesus Christ and see what God promised.

This means "the second death" according to the apostle John. Death and hades cannot be literally thrown into this lake, because it isn't a literal lake.

Not a literal lake?
The lake currently does not yet exist.
But it will be come Judgement Day.
If it is not a literal lake and not a literal fire - Jesus and his apostles made it literal enough.
Now I believe you have to re-examine JW dogmas and assumptions

Matthew 5:22 New International Version (NIV)
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 7:19 New International Version (NIV)
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 13:40 New International Version (NIV)
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

Matthew 18:8 New International Version (NIV)
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Matthew 18:9 New International Version (NIV)
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Mark 9:48 New International Version (NIV)
where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’

Hebrews 10:27 New International Version (NIV)
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

2 Peter 3:10 New International Version (NIV)
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

2 Peter 3:12 New International Version (NIV)
as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

Jude 23 New International Version (NIV)
save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

I don't think Jesus was kidding. I don't think the apostles Peter and Paul were kidding.
When John wrote down the revelation coming from the Lord Jesus Christ - he wasn't kidding.
When there is heat, there is fire!

God is not a fiend who needs to torture anyone....death is enough.

When people die, their sins are not paid.

Hebrews 9:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

Judgement is the payment

John 3:36 New International Version (NIV)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

I'm sure you know what wrath means.

The devil is a spirit so the lake must be spiritual. The word "tormented" was used for jailers who tormented their charges in prison.

The Lord Jesus Christ said this:

Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Even your JW Bible says its "tormented" and it would be 24/7 4ever

https://www.jw.org/ase/library/bible/nwt/books/revelation/20/

10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast+ and the false prophet already were;+ and they will be tormented* day and night forever and ever.

 

[soulsurvivor]

There is, but it (the Bible) does not teach reincarnation.

That is what I said. Go read my post again - no reincarnation is in the Bible.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Good Luck! BTW, Jesus does not need articles to tell him what is right.

Yes, he would want healthcare to be free.

Free, because people actually want to heal others, is quite different from some ******* coming to your office at 4am and demanding you treat them without compensation.
One of these is a loving man healing others because he cares for humanity, the other is an entitled person expecting others to be his/her slave.

It suddenly occurs to me that the entire eapture is quite similar to what John Galt proposed to do in Atlas Shrugged (well, John Galt is basically an Objectivist Jesus anyway).

After talking to another person on PM, a thought occurred to me. Why a loving God would sentence a mass of people to a lake of fire. Why Christians get raptured. And why it says things about righteous Jews and about Jesus treating all of us as we deserve.

It's like this: in the beginning, human beings had no sense of hope at all. They didn't have a salvation system, they just... well the first humans were with God in Eden, but things were too perfect and they screwed it up (a snake is blamed, but we know all about scapegoats). Then we had no Law and no Grace (since ppl didn't know about Grace, they couldn't access it). Then we had the Law, but really it's impossible to measure up to the Law. Then Jesus came and fulfilled the Law, and taught us instead about grace. This has been a free Grace period.

Now here's the important part. The last days are a dual salvation period. God gives us himself, and he turns our crosses into crowns. That is to say, praying for salvation will save you because Jesus extends Grace to those with faith (all those with faith not just Christian, "I have many flocks..." "and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" ). But there's another means of salvation, our crowns make us co-creators. We could not save ourselves before by following the Law, but with the ability given to us as co-creators we can make the rules. This is what is meant by the righteous Jews, they are not literally Jews, but people who unlike the Christians, have a different mentality and follow the Law first and love Jesus rather than worshipping him.

What this looks like... before, even something as simple as breathing, getting food, staying healthy, and such were basically automatic. Now you can pray to Jesus/God for rain, pray for health, etc. Or as you work through the motions, you recognize the God is within you as he was when Jesus walked the Earth, and you can grow crops by faith and effort. You build the New Earth around you by your actions.
There's a third category, those with a victim mentality. They neither ask Jesus for help, nor attempt to do it themselves. They are addicted to handouts, so they're like "I'm not breathing, I can't breathe! God must be to blame." No. Breathing, good health, and so on are no longer automatic . You have to practice breathing until you learn how to breathe under the new system. Those who don't also suffer seven plagues because they cannot fight them off. Followed by a pit of fire because they are convinced no one is helping them. They are tormented not becayse God hates them (God desires all to be saved) but because the new rule is a world where rather than a Pillar System (I would advise everyone here watch Magic Knight Rayearth), God has divided his power among all of us. But these people only understand how to be victims and to fight "privileged" people (the elect).

This is Spanish or something so I'll explain. Cephiro is a land of will, where the Pillar (strongest will) governs the land. Things are miserable because the loss of the last Pillar has filled everyone with fear, and they're making demons and monsters from their fear. But at the end of the series, Hikaru Shidou uses the power of the Pillar to abdicate, giving this power instead to all the people of Cephiro. After a year, Hikaru, Umi, and Fuu return as tourist/historians.

--------------------------------------

One hint of things to those who still don't understand. The Coronavirus does not particularly look like a crown (Corona means Crown, which is why the beer has that as a logo). It affects the Crown Chakra (read up on Hinduism and Buddhism, and the chakra system) of those with weak belief, and makes them sick. This virus is a symptom of the changed situation. You are getting a virus, because your Crown Chakra is not attuned to the new system.

 

[soulsurvivor]

...John Galt is basically an Objectivist Jesus ...

An 'Objectivist Jesus'! Very interesting! Like I said before: Good Luck!

 

[Deeje]

to to reincarnate is a pagan concept.

No to reincarnate is a Biblical concept

you must be reading the Satan's bible

I thought there was only one.

There is, but it does not teach reincarnation.

In order to reincarnate there must be a conscious part of man that survives death, in order to be placed into a new body. Reincarnation means that there is no memory of one's suppose former life. It also means being put into the body of another human, animal or insect......where will I find that in the Bible?

That is what I said. Go read my post again - no reincarnation is in the Bible.

OK....so what am I missing????

 

[soulsurvivor]

OK....so what am I missing????

Nothing. I did not say it clearly enough the first time. The Bible does not teach reincarnation.

 

[Deeje]

So if this revelation from Jesus Christ say Satan has his throne there, Satan lives there.
I will take to heart what is written.
Who am I to question what the Lord Jesus revealed to John? Who am I?

What do the opening words of the Revelation reveal about how literally we are to take its contents?

From the Kingdom Interlinear......

᾿Αποκάλυψις Revelation Ἰησοῦ of Jesus Χριστοῦ, Christ, ἣν which ἔδωκεν gave αὐτῷ to him ὁ the θεὸς God δεῖξαι to show τοῖς to the δούλοις slaves αὐτοῦ, of him, ἃ which (things) δεῖ it is binding γενέσθαι to occur ἐν in τάχει, quickness, καὶ and ἐσήμανεν he showed by signs ἀποστείλας having sent off διὰ through τοῦ the ἀγγέλου angel αὐτοῦ of him τῷ to the δούλῳ slave αὐτοῦ of him Ἰωάνει, to John".

Revelation is presented "by signs", so much of it is not to be taken literally. Taken literally would be an LSD trip.

Matthew 27:50-53 New International Version (NIV)
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

That is a terrible translation! This verse is ambiguous to begin with because no further mention is made of these "saints" who were "raised to life" after the earthquake. Read the account in an interlinear and it doesn't say that at all.

It says.....
"and kai the ho rocks petra were split schizō; 52 · kai the ho tombs mnēmeion were opened anoigō, and kai many polys bodies sōma of the ho saints hagios who had fallen koimaō asleep were raised egeirō. 53 · kai After meta his autos resurrection egersis they came exerchomai out of ek the ho tombs mnēmeion · ho and entered eiserchomai the ho holy hagios city polis and kai appeared emphanizō to many polys."

It reads completely differently when translated directly from the Greek.

First of all it was "bodies" that came out of these graves that were split open after an earthquake. This was not an unusual occurrence as earthquakes often do this. It doesn't say that these were "raised to life", but simply raised from their tombs....their bodies being exposed on the surface. But it isn't till after Jesus resurrection that it says "they" came out from the graveyard and entered the city. Who is "they"? If the bodies of the "saints" were resurrected before Jesus then this is in direct opposition to what Paul said in Colossians 1:18.....Jesus is called the "firstborn from the dead"...so did these saints beat him to it? What did those "saints" do for the three days before Jesus was resurrected? Any mention of that?

If these "saints" were indeed resurrected, what did they do after they entered the city? There is not another word about them. Wouldn't such a monumental event be the talk of the city? Wouldn't we see some other mention of them?.....there is nothing.

This is simply the account of bodies becoming exposed after an earthquake and some people coming out of the graveyard (possibly after reburying these bodies) coming into the city some days later to report it? The Bible accounts have to agree...you can't take isolated scriptures to prove anything....

And that great tribulation is?
Worldwide hardships, disasters, famine, war, pain, and suffering, is that it?
It is happening right now as we live.

We ain't seen nothing yet.....you think the world is bad at present....? The battle has not yet begun.

People are dying all the time. It does not mean they are paying the sins they have done.
Even infants die in their mother's womb. Toddlers die young not because they are evil.

Adamic sin brings forth death....it is the legacy left to all of Adam's children. Jesus came to remove that Adamic curse and to restore all that Adam lost for his children. Babies and toddlers die because of the imperfection passed on by his sin (Romans 5:12) which results in defective bodies not doing what God created them to do, succumbing to defects, disease, old age and death.....however Christ did not come to excuse the deliberate breaking of God's laws. Such ones will not be acceptable to him at the judgment. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Deeje]

Hebrews 9:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

So what is the judgement that will be handed out on Judgement Day?

Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Yes, the judgment comes after their death, when they are resurrected. All 'sleep' until then.
The judgement period of 1,000 years, (while the Kingdom rules) is set aside for all those in their tombs to be given the same opportunity that those on earth at their final judgment period had. These had access to all the knowledge that God made available at this "time of the end", but chose to ignore it as those alive in Noah's day did. (Matthew 24:37-39) Those who died in ignorance were not exposed to such knowledge. (Daniel 12:4) Why would God judge them without giving them the same opportunity to get to know him and to bring their lives into alignment with his will?

 

[Deeje]

Will King David lose his chance to go to heaven by benefiting from the first resurrection?
King David's tomb is in Jerusalem and I believe he is dust by now. Most likely his bones have turned into dust because it has been a long time, hasn't it?

King David, like John the Baptist, will never go to heaven. Jesus did not make the "new covenant" with King David, but with his apostles on the night of his last Passover. No one who died before Jesus could go to heaven as he was to become "the firstborn from the dead"....the very first human to undergo a spiritual resurrection. John the Baptist died before Jesus. (beheaded by Herod) Jesus did not resurrect him like he did Lazarus, so what are we to make of that?

The way to become "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, (John 14:6) but they rejected him, so after giving Israel first opportunity to become members of that holy nation, God then turned to the Gentiles in order to make up the deficit. (Acts 15:14)

Will he be resurrected when Jesus comes back? Of course he will be reassembled to join Jesus Christ and see what God promised.

God does not require a single molecule of the person in order to resurrect them......no bones, no DNA....all exist in God's vast memory so that he can re-create all who deserve to be given a second chance. He knows who they are.

If it is not a literal lake and not a literal fire - Jesus and his apostles made it literal enough.
Now I believe you have to re-examine JW dogmas and assumptions

It depends on the quality of your Bible education. We have examined all things very carefully to see that they must all comply with what is already written. There can be no contradictions, otherwise the Bible is not from God.

Matthew 5:22 New International Version (NIV)
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 7:19 New International Version (NIV)
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 13:40 New International Version (NIV)
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

Matthew 18:8 New International Version (NIV)
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Matthew 18:9 New International Version (NIV)
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Mark 9:48 New International Version (NIV)
where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’

Hebrews 10:27 New International Version (NIV)
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

2 Peter 3:10 New International Version (NIV)
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

2 Peter 3:12 New International Version (NIV)
as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

Jude 23 New International Version (NIV)
save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

The fire is not literal.

Again you are at the mercy of an incredibly bad translation. I suggest you ditch the NIV if you really want the truth in these matters....

None of those scriptures are about "hell"....the ancient Jews did not believe in such a place. So what did Jesus mean when he spoke of "gehenna" which is one of those words erroneously translated as "hell".

"Hell" (hades) in the Bible is not hot...there are no literal flames. In fact the dead are actually dead.....that is...they are not alive anywhere.

There are several words in the Bible which are mistranslated as "hell" (hades, Tartarus and the lets throw in the lake of fire as well.)

To Jesus' Jewish audience, "gehenna" meant only one thing...the rubbish dump outside of the walls of Jerusalem. The fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of sulfur (brimstone) so what was it that got thrown into the flames of gehenna along with the rubbish? The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were thrown into gehenna for disposal, so how was this a form of punishment? The words of Jesus to the Pharisees was "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape from being condemned to hell [gehenna]?"

Jesus also said in Matthew 10:28.... "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[gehenna]"

Gehenna is an "everlasting punishment" no doubt about that....but what kind of everlasting punishment is it? Since the only two options given to humankind by God are "life and death"...everlasting life is contrasted by everlasting death. Nothing alive ever went into gehenna. It is a place where God destroys both body and soul.....so nothing of humans survives everlasting death. It is a permanent state of non existence.....which coincides with what God told Adam in Genesis 3:19....he would simply go back to where he was before he was created.
I am often amazed that people think that a loving God would enjoy torturing people in flames forever....that makes him a fiend.

Everlasting death is enough of a punishment because no matter what crime was committed in Israel, death was the highest penalty...no crime was punished with prolonged suffering. They didn't even have jails.

 

[Deeje]

When people die, their sins are not paid.

The wages of sin is death. Those who have died are set free of their sin. (Romans 6:7)

They have paid for their sins of the past.....but a resurrection will mean judgment for the sins of the present.

Hebrews 9:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

Judgement is the payment

John 3:36 New International Version (NIV)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

I'm sure you know what wrath means.

No one who has put in the effort to really know God and to follow the teachings of his son has anything to fear. (John 17:3)

The Lord Jesus Christ said this:

Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

That eternal fire is Gehenna....the lake of fire.....its is not a literal place because death and hades are thrown in there along with the devil and his angels after the 1,000 years of the kingdom's rule has accomplished what God sent it to do.

To eternally eliminate from existence all those who want to spoil what God first purposed for our life on this planet, is all that needs to be done....you have to ask yourself what kind of a God would torture people forever with no way to repent, and what sort of people would we be to want to worship such a God?

 

[LightofTruth]

The wages of sin is death. Those who have died are set free of their sin. (Romans 6:7)

They have paid for their sins of the past.....but a resurrection will mean judgment for the sins of the present.

Paul is not talking about actual death in Roman 6. he is speaking of being dead to sin by being baptized into Christ whereby the persons past sins are forgiven.
If a person sins after being forgiven his past sins, he can ask forgiveness through Christ.
If a person remains faithful to the end, he does not have to fear judgment.

 

[MJFlores]

What do the opening words of the Revelation reveal about how literally we are to take its contents?

This is Book of Revelations came from the Lord Jesus Christ and the contents could not be understood by most people because the scriptures say:

Romans 16:25 New International Version (NIV)
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

The revelation of Jesus Christ is a mystery and not only it is a mystery, it is hidden and it is hidden for long ages past. Now who could unlock this mystery which is hidden?

This guy?
He has long been dead right?
Maybe his bones are too dry now and Jehovah can't resurrect him [just using your line of thought].

So if the late Mr. Russel explained about the Revelation of Jesus Christ - let's hear it.

The Book of Revelation is our guide, a map to interpret the times.
As Jesus Christ said:

Luke 12:54-56 New International Version (NIV)
He said to the crowd: “When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, ‘It’s going to rain,’ and it does. And when the south wind blows, you say, ‘It’s going to be hot,’ and it is. Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?

Who is "they"? If the bodies of the "saints" were resurrected before Jesus then this is in direct opposition to what Paul said in Colossians 1:18.....Jesus is called the "firstborn from the dead"...so did these saints beat him to it? What did those "saints" do for the three days before Jesus was resurrected? Any mention of that?

Hebrews 11:35-38 New International Version (NIV)

If these "saints" were indeed resurrected, what did they do after they entered the city? There is not another word about them. Wouldn't such a monumental event be the talk of the city? Wouldn't we see some other mention of them?.....there is nothing.

What happened to those people whose tombs were opened [when Jesus Christ died on the cross] and when God raised Jesus from the dead, they were risen afterwards.
If I were you I would say that. But let the Bible answer.

Hebrews 11:35-38 New International Version (NIV)
Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

I don't need to explain what is in the Bible and its graphic details.

This is simply the account of bodies becoming exposed after an earthquake and some people coming out of the graveyard (possibly after reburying these bodies) coming into the city some days later to report it?

Do not assume anything.
The Bible is not open for any private interpretation.
What is recorded in the Bible is the very words of the Almighty himself.

We ain't seen nothing yet.....you think the world is bad at present....? The battle has not yet begun.

If the Revelation of Jesus Christ is a jungle of words to you, you have seen nothing yet.

But we in the Church of Christ [Iglesia ni Cristo] which emerged in the Philippines in July 27 1914 knows things which most churches do not know. Let us take for instance, Mr. Russel predicted that Christ return would be in 1914.

They kept waiting but little did they know the Church [Body] of Christ emerged in the far east and like what you said it marked the ends of the earth.

Why would God judge them without giving them the same opportunity to get to know him and to bring their lives into alignment with his will?

When God says its over - it is over.

Zephaniah 1:2-3 New International Version (NIV)
“I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord.
“I will sweep away both man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds in the sky
and the fish in the sea—
and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.”

“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord,


He said it before and it comes in full speed.

John the Baptist died before Jesus. (beheaded by Herod) Jesus did not resurrect him like he did Lazarus, so what are we to make of that?

Ask Jesus - this is a personal question, only be answerable by the boss.

Don't you know that Paul also was beheaded?

Paul's death are unknown, but tradition holds that he was beheaded in Rome and thus died as a martyr for his faith. His death was perhaps part of the executions of Christians ordered by the Roman emperor Nero following the great fire in the city in 64 CE. It is known that St.Apr 30, 2020

Saint Paul the Apostle | Biography & Facts | Britannica

Yet he waits for the Lord Jesus Christ to reward him. It has been a long time since Paul was beheaded. His bones would be dust right now. Yet, Paul wrote:

2 Timothy 4:6-8 New International Version (NIV)
For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Jesus also said in Matthew 10:28.... "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[gehenna]"

Kept on hearing gehenna. And when I hear it, it reminds me of

Kidding aside, Hell are:
[1] the grave, cemetery, tomb, the earth
[2] second death

That eternal fire is Gehenna....the lake of fire.....its is not a literal place because death and hades are thrown in there along with the devil and his angels after the 1,000 years of the kingdom's rule has accomplished what God sent it to do.

HELL is not a literal place - it is not the Sun, or the molten lava underneath our feet or some place where we can visit. HELL is recorded in the Bible of a place that will be created on Judgement Day.

Revelation 20:5-15 New International Version (NIV)

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

you have to ask yourself what kind of a God would torture people forever with no way to repent, and what sort of people would we be to want to worship such a God?

I am those sort of people.
Because the Bible says:

Hebrews 12:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”

The time to repent is now [our present time]
To those who died not knowing God, they have their conscience who will defend them or convict them.
Man is destined to die once. In that dying, you still have to be judged because the Bible says afterwards Judgement.
When God destroyed mankind with the flood - ask yourself, where there babies at that time? where there toddlers ages 3-10 at that time? Where there unborn children at that time? A lot of people died in the flood and without doubt drowning is like waterboarding except one is sure of being dead.

And I am sure in Sodom and Gomorrah, there were pregnant mothers, suckling infants and innocent toddlers - if we would assume these people existed during those times. Yet what happened to the place?

2 Peter 2:4-7 New International Version (NIV)
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless.

The bottom line is: What is written, God will fulfill it because God is not human and he does not lie.

Ezekiel 12:25 New International Version (NIV)
But I the Lord will speak what I will, and it shall be fulfilled without delay. For in your days, you rebellious people, I will fulfill whatever I say, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

 

[MJFlores]

The wages of sin is death. Those who have died are set free of their sin. (Romans 6:7)

They have paid for their sins of the past.....but a resurrection will mean judgment for the sins of the present.

Let us rewind on the wages of sin...
Reflect on it please as I show the whole verse.

Romans 6:23 New International Version (NIV)
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Actually this is Judgement that will be imposed on Judgement Day.

Death to pay for your sins.
But wait, every human dies, you have a time limit and I have a time limit.
When I lose my life, I paid for my sins?

They lost their lives, and they paid for their sins?
Come on! Their sins must have reached the heavens and they came out clean?

The Bible verse compares 2 things

1. The wages of sin is death
2. The gift of God is eternal life with Jesus Christ

What is that death when a person to be judge must be dead first?
Why was eternal life called the gift of God?
Two sentences are given - guilty or not guilty.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/revelation/20/

11 And I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it.+ From before him the earth and the heaven fled away,+ and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life.+ The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.+ 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave* gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.+ 14 And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+ 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life+ was hurled into the lake of fire.+

If all of these are symbolical - well these is what JW bible said. Kindly explain
Verse
11 - Who is seated in the great white throne?
12 - Who are the dead standing in the throne? Is Charles Russel included?
13 - Who are the dead and what is being done to them? Are the dead alive or undead?
14 - So what is the second death?
15 - How do you hurl someone symbolically to a symbolical lake of fire?

Isn't the second death the payment for sins? How will murderous despots, serial killers and rapist pay their sins? How will the false prophet, Satan pay?

No one who has put in the effort to really know God and to follow the teachings of his son has anything to fear. (John 17:3)

John 17:3 is about the teachings of Jesus Christ to attain eternal life.

John 17:1,3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

It is clear that the Father is the only true God
And Jesus Christ was sent by the only true God - the Father.
And with this belief - is eternal life
If one person does not believe or believes something else - that would be eternal death
I absolutely believe this teaching and the members of the Church of Christ [Iglesia ni Cristo] believes in this.
Now what do JW believe?

He lived in heaven before being born as a human / a spirit creature in heaven, Jesus had a special relationship with Jehovah / Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Archangel Michael, "the Word" of John 1:1, and wisdom personified in Proverbs 8 refer to Jesus in his pre-human existence and that he resumed these identities after his ascension to heaven following his death and resurrection. / While on earth, Jesus was executed as a sacrifice to atone for mankind's sins, becoming the "eternal father" to the human family

Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs - Wikipedia.
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/who-is-jesus-christ/

This one is off topic and time intensive. I really have to object on this matters.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

An 'Objectivist Jesus'! Very interesting! Like I said before: Good Luck!

Was that all you read? Congratulations, you took my entire post outside of context!

Ayn Rand is not a theist. Not even close. She considers all religion to be excuses for a certain type of jerk to tell others to be "less selfish" while they selfishly take all others have. I am referring of course to the socialists, communists, and other inbeed bullies of this world.

As such, she does not literally believe in Jesus. But John Galt is a Jesus archetype. A perfect man. He suffers because of the other people, he appears to die, then he returns and pronounces Judgement. Mostly upon these same "selfless" people who demanded inventors, producers, etc unionize and produce inferior product. Which is what happens to medicine.

-------------------------

Then I was done talking about that, and instead talked about Christianity. Although I did have a tie-in. You see, Christianity is plagued by the same losers. They don't work, they take what others work for, in such a way that that those people are used and abused. "What do we need Christians for?" Well, here's the thing.

After you've insisted that the US (which was doing its own thing before insurance) join your lockstep vision of perfect healthcare... seriously just go to a countrt that has it, and leave us all alone, after all churches have been closed permanently to COVID-19, after you've enacted your new great society and all those stubborn Christians are hunted down because they don't fit your conformist mold of what a perfect world look like, you'll look at this world.

It will have no Christians. No Jews. It might have Muslims (there has long been a Red-Green alliance). No Hindus. No Buddhists. No Sikhs. No Shinto. It will be a world where people have destroyed statues of great men. Where rubble and burned buildings remain. Where the secular fight on a daily basis with these Muslims for control of this dump, but as trash and pollution build in the streets, and nobody really makes anything good.

Five months of COVID-19, and we're already seeing the fruits of this. Our trash compacter got screwed up in our garbage dump. Rather than buy a new one, we have a growing mess. The dump can't really get rid of its own trash. And businesses are in collapse because certain people couldn't bear to admit that Trump's policies actually worked, so they hijacked the economy by making everyone stay indoors.

This is a hundredfold what will happen in the world. It will be a polluted and corrupted dump that God left behind. The religions of the world will have died and gone to their rewards. Meanwhile, virtue signalling as always, those remaining will vaccinate against basically what causes people to die in the first place (Coronavirus is one of the strains of common cold, it hasn't had a cure ever because it is endemic to the human race, a basic shutoff to old age) and then mandate everyone get it. You don't get it, you can't even buy food from the store. As I say, the prevailing mentality of secular atheism is that if you think something is good, everyone has to agree.

By the way, haven't you heard of antibodies? People used to be able to naturally recover from illness. You should try it some time, rather than injecting some dubious substance in your body thst probably kills more people than it saves.

In any case, in this steaming pile of wreckage, life will suck for 1000 years while Christians live together with the other religions. Like John Galt and his place in Colorado, they live in a world untouched by all of this. And then one day, they will be reborn on this world, and start doing productive things. Growing crops, metallurgy, art, science, things of good and beauty. Will the rest of the world love them for returning joy to the world? No, they are consumed with jealousy, and will make war on them, trying to destroy them. Only this time things are different. These new humans are blessed by God, both by their science advances and their spiritual powers (I guess you'd say psychic abilities, but that's not accurate).

The world will become new, and all of the bureaucratic red tape of taxes, restrictions, and other stuff that the takers of this world have set up to get their hands on things that don't belong to them will be gone. It will be a New Earth.

Likewise, Heaven will be reformed. What came before with people forgetting everything about their past lives will no longer be the case, people will know there is an afterlife.

 

[soulsurvivor]

John Galt is a Jesus archetype

Really? I can imagine John Galt sacrificing himself!

You are really going to be disappointed when the real Christ shows up!