How do you define eternity?

[s2a]

What does the concept of "eternity" mean to you?

Everything we can see, feel, experience, or even wonder upon...seems (to be) finite. Apparently enough (so far), everything that has some beginning point, in time, meets or achieves some end point of existence. That's what we can plainly see for ourselves. Faith in an "afterlife" is another matter...

Human beings are not noted to live for very long (even 100 years is pushing things). Few religious texts even account for any humans living beyond 1000 years of natural age. Some of the oldest living things on this planet are but 4000 years old or so...

Time itself is but a measure of change, and the indefinitely continued progress of an identifiable existence.

The sun continues to consume hydrogen in producing heat.
Our planet continues to orbit our sun. Our moon orbits our planet.
The cosmos continues to unfold, both creating and consuming both stars and planets not unlike our own.
Species continue to evolve.
People "change".
Stock markets rise and fall.
Life manifests itself through reproduction, mutation, evolution, consumption (of other living or dead things), and eventual (inevitable) expiration. It might be fairly observed that without death, life itself would be impossible.

OK. Standing in line at the DMV while waiting to renew your diver's license might "feel like" an "eternity"...but it isn't.

Anyway...

...just what constitutes "eternity"?

Does any "change" occur within an eternal realm of unending existence? If so, how is it perceived, absent any "beginning" or "end"? Can I unceasingly eat pizza for a billion years and have it seem like an instant, with no consequences of action? If so, have I "missed anything" that has transpired around me in those billion years? If not, then what value should I place upon the passing of a billion years that have no meaning or qualitative measure to me? If a billion years seems of feels like a day, or an hour, or a minute to me...then what value shall I place upon any efforts or deeds in those passing hundreds of millions of years?

If I think, my perception may change.
If I act, my surroundings may change.
If I wonder, my perceptions may change.
If I doubt, my resolve may change.

Finite qualities, subject to change in the measure of time.

If time has no measure, nor endpoint...then what does "an eternity" really mean to you?

 

[Willamena]

Eternity is timelessness. No beginning, no end.

"An eternity" is a figure of speech that indicates a very long time.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't think in terms of time, therefore "eternity" has little meaning for me.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Eternity is shown a lot in math. Equations with an infinite amount of answers orcircles with an infinite amount of triangles to calulate it.. Pi.. A simple number wich you can infinitelly divide by 2.

If math isn't there in our normal life, then I lost it

Time btw is such a small aspect of infinite..


Edit: Btw I forgot all about God-mode in Doom! Now that's infinite life!!!

 

[s2a]

Eternity is timelessness. No beginning, no end.

"An eternity" is a figure of speech that indicates a very long time.

OK. How then, do you relate to such a concept of a "something" that has neither a beginning nor end? I'd readily concede that a billion years is a "long time"...but it's not "timeless".

What other natural occurrence/experience supports the notion of an "eternity"?

Beyond religion, what science supports the notion of "timelessness...with no beginning, no end"?

Is the notion of [an] "eternity" limited to religious (or faith-based) perspectives, or is there some available empirical evidence to suggest that "things" might "exist" in a realm beyond measures of time?

 

[Buttercup]

The definition of eternity to me is, "waiting in line at the Post Office longer than 3 minutes".

Other than that, the word is rather useless to me.

 

[mingmty]

Well, recent brain studies shown that we associate ideas primordially to our physical actions, so the best description of the abstract idea would be "a road without end", just as Willamena said.

And I think that's a good representation of the idea, since all our inner representations of time are physical: Events "passed" or "are approaching", the future is "in front of us" and the past is "behind". So a endless road seems like the best answer to me.

Off course it's an abstract concept and as such can't be entirely defined by language since language is way too strongly linked to our physical experience with the environment.

Eternity is shown a lot in math. Equations with an infinite amount of answers orcircles with an infinite amount of triangles to calulate it.. Pi.. A simple number wich you can infinitelly divide by 2.

If math isn't there in our normal life, then I lost it

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
~ Albert Einstein

Sorry, but the fact that I use a circular trajectory with a radius of infinity in the plane of imaginary and real numbers to calculate the inverse Fourier transform doesn't really help me to describe infinity or eternity. Math is full of things that have absolutely no meaning in the real physical world.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Math is full of things that have absolutely no meaning in the real physical world.

Just like religion, yet we use that as well to explain the world.

And no meaning? I would say that most of math is actually used in this real world. What you can't see doesn't mean it isn't here :angel2:
The beautifull thing behind math is that it is only a code made by mankind. It explains things from the real physical world in another way so we can work with it.
The very computer you use to post this all is a nice example.

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
~ Albert Einstein"
Most definatelly they are not certain, just like about every "fact" in life..

 

[Aasimar]

Since it is very strongly suggested that time itself has a beginning, it is reasonable to assume it has an end, therefore I think eternity may not have any real meaning at all.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Since it is very strongly suggested that time itself has a beginning, it is reasonable to assume it has an end, therefore I think eternity may not have any real meaning at all.

"Therefore"? To be 'real' and to have "real meaning" is not at all the same thing.

Alfred Korzybski's caution that "the map is not the territory" is relevant ...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

eternity probably has little meaning in our time frame.
However it expresses the meaning well for being outside time.
e.g.. the eternal God.... no beginning no end.

 

[Willamena]

OK. How then, do you relate to such a concept of a "something" that has neither a beginning nor end? I'd readily concede that a billion years is a "long time"...but it's not "timeless".

You misunderstand; a "billion years" has both a beginning and and end. It must in order to measure it as a "billion."

I was indicating two different contexts for eternity, one of which is apart from time (no beginning and no end) and the other a concept of time (no end) used figuratively.

We relate to eternity by dropping the concepts of "future" and "past" that give us "time." We even have a word for it, we call it "now."

What other natural occurrence/experience supports the notion of an "eternity"?

Meditation, for one.

Beyond religion, what science supports the notion of "timelessness...with no beginning, no end"?

I have no clue. Maybe one of those quantum physics ones.

Is the notion of [an] "eternity" limited to religious (or faith-based) perspectives, or is there some available empirical evidence to suggest that "things" might "exist" in a realm beyond measures of time?

It's not "an" eternity; if you stick the "an" in front of it you turn it into the figure of speech. It's just "eternity".

There is empirical evidence. The conscious observation of "now" (or "nowness" if you prefer) is empirical evidence.

 

[Willamena]

Since it is very strongly suggested that time itself has a beginning, it is reasonable to assume it has an end, therefore I think eternity may not have any real meaning at all.

Not in terms of time, right.

 

[s2a]

Hello mingmty,

You said:

Well, recent brain studies shown that we associate ideas primordially to our physical actions...

Which makes sense to me...

...so the best description of the abstract idea would be "a road without end", just as Willamena said.

But...is there really "a road without an end"?
Does it go "through" something, or some place? Does it lie within any place in the now? Is their an "on ramp" to this "abstract" road? What does "a road without end" seek to abstractly define, or serve as some metaphor of...what"?

What is "a road without end"?

What?

And I think that's a good representation of the idea, since all our inner representations of time are physical: Events "passed" or "are approaching", the future is "in front of us" and the past is "behind".

Well, we are physical beings, after all.
You might say that particular "state of being" is a natural one. Is their another way to experience nature in a non-physical way (bearing in mind that our brains, our biochemistry, and our very thoughts--abstract or concrete--are borne of physical manifestations). I can formulate abstract ideas all day long, but if those ideas have no directed meaning (ie, "How high is UP?"), or can not be physically experienced (in keeping with the notion that human minds are physically finite and mortal) in any supposedly expressed manner; then what's the illuminating purpose of introducing an abstract concept as some way of "explaining" a particular religion/spirituality/philosophy?

If I go out today searching to buy the most durable and long-lasting dishwasher available, I'm gonna do a little research first; then, I going to retail establishment that claims to offer such a product.
I locate a local appliance store that advertises the availability of one "Eternal Dishwasher".
I go there, and the salesman first approaches, then seeks to validate my visit and interest in saying;
"You've found the right machine for you--it's absolutely the best eternal dishwasher on the planet!".
"Cool", I say. "What makes this dishwasher eternal"?
"What do you mean?", asks the salesman.
"I mean, does your eternal dishwasher last for a long time? Does it offer some lengthy guarantee of serviceability?"
"Hmmmm...perhaps you don't understand", the salesman chuckles. "This dishwasher IS eternal. There is no "long time" for things eternal."
"Fine", I say. "Perhaps then you could tell me when, or where it was manufactured...or by what company?"
"Sir", the salesman patiently explains; "This fine product is eternal. It's always been. It will always be. It's here now, for you, today. Concepts of when, how, why, or wherefrom, are finite, physical concepts that simply don't apply to abstract concepts of the eternal."
"Interesting", I lie. "Could you at least tell me whether or not it can do a full load of dishes in under an hour?"
The salesman laughs out loud, then calms himself and cryptically begs the question; "What is an hour to an abstract concept like eternal?"
"OK, then", I sigh;. "Assuming for the moment that I wish to purchase this eternal dishwasher, when might I expect it for delivery to my house?"
"I'm sorry sir, but perhaps this product isn't what you're looking for. "'When' is a finite concept, a point in time, you know. Eternity does not deal in matters of time, since it is endless, without beginning, or end. But you might be comforted by the fact that this eternal dishwasher is a timeless design, and will always be eternal."

So a endless road seems like the best answer to me.

Sorry. I can't buy that conceptual dishwasher, even if I wanted to...

Off course it's an abstract concept and as such can't be entirely defined by language since language is way too strongly linked to our physical experience with the environment.

I remain skeptical of any "explanations" that defy natural explanation (or definitions), as some "conceptual (or faith-based)) explanation".

[Note: I certainly promote "abstract", or "outside the box" thinking and reflections that serve to observe or investigate the tangibly physical aspects of the cosmos, and/or the entirety of the human "experience" that seeks to best define and better understand--the unexplained, the undiscovered, or the unexplored. But let's not confuse (or conflate) our capacities for thinking within the abstract (like Einstein with Relativity), with fairly affirming abstract concepts as being anything more than mental masturbation and self-gratification of some especial insightful and personal enlightenment.
Our species is especially equipped to indulge it's innate curiosity, in that it can both learn and instruct others in it's accumulated/acquired knowledge.
How is this done? In definable, explicable, and (linguistically) relatable concepts and demonstrations. Can we not better serve those available capacities in pursuing both ideas--and ideals--within a physical (albeit finite and relatable) realm first, before we go all transcendently surreal and "conceptual"?]

 

[s2a]

Hi Willemena,

I was indicating two different contexts for eternity, one of which is apart from time (no beginning and no end) and the other a concept of time (no end) used figuratively.

We relate to eternity by dropping the concepts of "future" and "past" that give us "time." We even have a word for it, we call it "now."

I get that. I call it the natural cosmos. Oddly (or inconveniently) enough, we can actually "see" into the "past", every evening we gaze upon the starlit nighttime sky. Even in this "now", we can (and do) directly observe "the past".

Even when you look upon the moon, or our sun, you are veritably observing (in the "then/now") a phenomena that has already occurred "in the past". As Einstein suggested--and has been "proved" scientifically many times over--"now" is a relative observation unique to yourself, within your own place in time-space.

Thusly said, "now" is not a fixed measure of time, but just one point in time that you perceive it to be (as "now") from your own reference point.
However, "now" is not some "abstract concept". It can be shared with others. It can be measured, defined, and expressed in concrete terms. Possessing an individual perspective in observation does not constitute a unique observation or perspective. Humans (for better or worse) are confined to this particular (relative) point in space-time, therefore we are bound to share the same observations and perceptions available to anyone else within this point.

Suppose that we choose to visit our local zoo together. We both visit the beaver habitat together. We both observe the resident and existent beavers--doing whatever beavers do in a carefully crafted zoo habitat--at the same place and point in time. As far (or as well) as we can fairly determine, both the beavers and ourselves are existent in that "then" moment in time. This is not an "abstract" concept (heck, we can even take pictures to record the shared experience).

Language serves to define that particular shared experience in a way that is relatable to others. If your friends were interested in hearing about your pre-planned visit to the zoo, you might express your prospective encounter/experience in a manner that reflects some aspect of time:
"We saw the beavers", or "We went to observe the beavers "today" (and we did!)"
"We are going to see the beavers at the zoo today (but, as yet, don't see them "now")".
"We will be visiting the beavers at the zoo soon, maybe next week".

How does "eternity" fit into this potential dialogue--or "explanation" of events--that have, may, or won't ever, transpire or be experienced by you?

I asked:
What other natural occurrence/experience supports the notion of an "eternity"?

You offered:

Meditation, for one.

Could you elaborate upon that? I can "think" deeply, or "focus" my thoughts upon one idea...but I remain in the "here and now". Even if I "daydream", and my mind/focus becomes either transfixed or "transcendent", I'm still "here", and "now".

Beyond religion, what science supports the notion of "timelessness...with no beginning, no end"?

I have no clue. Maybe one of those quantum physics ones.

OK. I can accept, "I don't know" in answer.

I asked:
Is the notion of [an] "eternity" limited to religious (or faith-based) perspectives, or is there some available empirical evidence to suggest that "things" might "exist" in a realm beyond measures of time?

It's not "an" eternity; if you stick the "an" in front of it you turn it into the figure of speech. It's just "eternity".

C'mon. Be fair. Please re-read my OP. I inquired most directly within that OP:
"...just what constitutes "eternity"?"

No "ifs", "an's", or "buts". ;-)

I also asked some questions which you chose not to address regarding the concept of "eternity" (as you may otherwise understand/present it).

To wit:
"Does any "change" occur within an eternal realm of unending existence? If so, how is it perceived, absent any "beginning" or "end"? Can I unceasingly eat pizza for a billion years and have it seem like an instant, with no consequences of action? If so, have I "missed anything" that has transpired around me in those billion years? If not, then what value should I place upon the passing of a billion years that have no meaning or qualitative measure to me? If a billion years seems of feels like a day, or an hour, or a minute to me...then what value shall I place upon any efforts or deeds in those passing hundreds of millions of years?

If time has no measure, nor endpoint...then what does "an eternity" really mean to you?"

If we agree to drop the troubling "an" from that question, would you effort once more to lend some answer?

There is empirical evidence. The conscious observation of "now" (or "nowness" if you prefer) is empirical evidence.

I see. How long does a conscious observation of any given "now" last? Does it have any measure? Is "conscious observation" static, transitional, or "eternal"? If so, as compared to what?

I'm pleased enough to codify the suggestion that any "conscious observation of "now" can constitute "empirical evidence"...of existence in the "now"...but how that concept validates any supposed notion of "eternity" still escapes my understanding or acceptance.

Eternally yours,

s2a

 

[blackout]

We relate to eternity by dropping the concepts of "future" and "past" that give us "time." We even have a word for it, we call it "now."


Meditation, for one.


I have no clue. Maybe one of those quantum physics ones.


It's not "an" eternity; if you stick the "an" in front of it you turn it into the figure of speech. It's just "eternity".

There is empirical evidence. The conscious observation of "now" (or "nowness" if you prefer) is empirical evidence.

NOW, That's what eternity is for me!

NOW.
the NOW moment,
when past and future lose their grip,
lose their hold on my mind,
and my actions,
and life is vitally alive in the "now" moment,
for me that is eternity.

The eternal now.
I never wear a watch.

 

[Ozzie]

What does the concept of "eternity" mean to you?

Everything we can see, feel, experience, or even wonder upon...seems (to be) finite. Apparently enough (so far), everything that has some beginning point, in time, meets or achieves some end point of existence. That's what we can plainly see for ourselves. Faith in an "afterlife" is another matter...

Human beings are not noted to live for very long (even 100 years is pushing things). Few religious texts even account for any humans living beyond 1000 years of natural age. Some of the oldest living things on this planet are but 4000 years old or so...

Time itself is but a measure of change, and the indefinitely continued progress of an identifiable existence.

The sun continues to consume hydrogen in producing heat.
Our planet continues to orbit our sun. Our moon orbits our planet.
The cosmos continues to unfold, both creating and consuming both stars and planets not unlike our own.
Species continue to evolve.
People "change".
Stock markets rise and fall.
Life manifests itself through reproduction, mutation, evolution, consumption (of other living or dead things), and eventual (inevitable) expiration. It might be fairly observed that without death, life itself would be impossible.

OK. Standing in line at the DMV while waiting to renew your diver's license might "feel like" an "eternity"...but it isn't.

Anyway...

...just what constitutes "eternity"?

Does any "change" occur within an eternal realm of unending existence? If so, how is it perceived, absent any "beginning" or "end"? Can I unceasingly eat pizza for a billion years and have it seem like an instant, with no consequences of action? If so, have I "missed anything" that has transpired around me in those billion years? If not, then what value should I place upon the passing of a billion years that have no meaning or qualitative measure to me? If a billion years seems of feels like a day, or an hour, or a minute to me...then what value shall I place upon any efforts or deeds in those passing hundreds of millions of years?

If I think, my perception may change.
If I act, my surroundings may change.
If I wonder, my perceptions may change.
If I doubt, my resolve may change.

Finite qualities, subject to change in the measure of time.

If time has no measure, nor endpoint...then what does "an eternity" really mean to you?

Your whole notion of asking how long something lasts as a measure of time is flawed. Therefore (duh) eternity is immeasurable.

Why is time useful then?

 

[Ozzie]

Sorry. I can't buy that conceptual dishwasher, even if I wanted to...

I remain skeptical of any "explanations" that defy natural explanation (or definitions), as some "conceptual (or faith-based)) explanation".

[Note: I certainly promote "abstract", or "outside the box" thinking and reflections that serve to observe or investigate the tangibly physical aspects of the cosmos, and/or the entirety of the human "experience" that seeks to best define and better understand--the unexplained, the undiscovered, or the unexplored. But let's not confuse (or conflate) our capacities for thinking within the abstract (like Einstein with Relativity), with fairly affirming abstract concepts as being anything more than mental masturbation and self-gratification of some especial insightful and personal enlightenment.
Our species is especially equipped to indulge it's innate curiosity, in that it can both learn and instruct others in it's accumulated/acquired knowledge.
How is this done? In definable, explicable, and (linguistically) relatable concepts and demonstrations. Can we not better serve those available capacities in pursuing both ideas--and ideals--within a physical (albeit finite and relatable) realm first, before we go all transcendently surreal and "conceptual"?]

You seem to be confusing the idea of a mental dishwasher with a dishwasher. You would do better to refer your audience to Gilbert Ryle (just a suggestion).

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings.

>How do you define eternity?

The conventional definition would seem to suffice....

Peace,

Bruce

 

[moegypt]

Eternity...

Every thing in this world has an end except the Creator who control the properties of the world.

God will give us the Eternity property..