How do you define eternity?

[YmirGF]

Eternity...

Every thing in this world has an end except the Creator who control the properties of the world.

I understand precisely what you mean, but your sentence construction asserts that "the Creator" is actually a part of "this world". Now I don't especially dispute that, however I would like to say that this so-called "Creator" is a lot closer to home than most people suspect. I would also assert that ALL people are far more aware of "the creator", in fact, they are intimately aware of this "creator" with every breath they breathe and every thought they think, however they are not used to thinking about the "creator" in the proper context. I'm sure you understand.

God will give us the Eternity property..

I cannot image why a "god" would "give" us something once again that "he" already gave us so "long ago" that we no longer recall the "giving".

---------------

A wise man once said, "It takes a long time to understand the nature of time." It is a sentiment that I wholeheartedly agree with. Our perception of what we call time is a creation of the physical senses and results from how our brain assembles data. The individual continually alters their sensation of time through the lens of their conscious focus. In this way, time is more like an iris that dilates and contracts depending on how much focus is applied.

In moments of intense focus, our perception of time slows down. We become so absorbed in any given task that we simply become unaware of how much "time" has passed. Likewise we will often sense that "time is dragging" and this is usually when we would rather be doing something else and our focus is hard to maintain.

In my view, there is ONLY now and "past" is simply one way we view accumulated data. The "future" is simply an array of relative probabilities that we have not yet chosen to enter our experience. Time, in one sense, is relative to the viewpoint taken and is more like a series of intensities rather than a "tick, tick, tick" ordered progression. Yes, "time" can be measured with arbitrary units however that sense of time is not as accurate as we would like to think. Perhaps a better way of saying it is that there may be different kinds of time, perhaps "real" time and chronological time for starters.

Let’s go back to s2a's statement that when we look up into the sky, we are looking into the past. That is most certainly correct as it takes "time" for our senses to accumulate the data so that our minds can make sense of the data. The thing is that the photons we are looking at are still within their own now. If a photon could sit down and have a quick chat on its way by, it would probably say that it was now when asked what time it was. As Uncle Albert outlined, time is relative to the observer.

I guess my last point is that so-called "eternity" exists within the moment point and our perception of this quality occurs when we learn to slow down the winds of our minds (our data processing centre) and bask in that moment point. In some ways, it is like becoming a surfer riding the crest of a wave, moving in sync to the flow of the wave. Not a bad feat for a mere particle of consciousness. If the individual manages to pull that one off they would agree that they aren’t in Kansas anymore.


Oh heck, I could be wrong, but if anyone sees holes in this, feel free to nuke me. I'm a big boy, I can take it.

“Come along Toto, “time” for breakfast.” :flirt:

 

[Diogenes]

"You might as well ask Heaven what it sees. No human can know."
-Anne Rice

 

[Willamena]

Thusly said, "now" is not a fixed measure of time, but just one point in time that you perceive it to be (as "now") from your own reference point.

That is one way of looking at "now," yes, objectively and in terms of time. Another is from the subjective perspective, and yet another is to look at it not in terms of time but in terms of eternity. "Time" and "me" provide the contexts for the definitions I gave of our relation to eternity which is the moment "now."

However, "now" is not some "abstract concept". It can be shared with others. It can be measured, defined, and expressed in concrete terms.

Concretizing is something we do to abstract concepts , in part so that we can measure and evaluate them, but that's neither here nor there.

Possessing an individual perspective in observation does not constitute a unique observation or perspective. Humans (for better or worse) are confined to this particular (relative) point in space-time, therefore we are bound to share the same observations and perceptions available to anyone else within this point.

*looks around* No one else has "this point" that "now" does to me. *looks around again, suspiciously*

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting that "now" is eternity, but rather that "now" is my relation to eternity (and incidentally to time), which answers the question that you had asked: How do we relate to eternity? You are thinking of "now" in terms of space/time, and I am thinking of the world in terms of me because that's how I relate to it. Neither is incorrect, just different perspectives, different contexts; but yours leads to statements that seem silly to me, such as that my unique perspective on the universe --my relation to time and eternity --is not unique.

Edit: You seem to be thinking of "now" in terms of a point in space/time that everyone is encased in? That's not what "now" is to me, in terms of answering your questions. Consciousness determines now. "I am" is always centered in "now," where I am it is.

This is not an "abstract" concept (heck, we can even take pictures to record the shared experience).

That we can take pictures of an event doesn't preclude the idea of "then" from being an abstract concept. "Then" isn't the event, it's a concept of time applied to the event to place it relative to "now."

Language serves to define that particular shared experience in a way that is relatable to others. If your friends were interested in hearing about your pre-planned visit to the zoo, you might express your prospective encounter/experience in a manner that reflects some aspect of time:
"We saw the beavers", or "We went to observe the beavers "today" (and we did!)"
"We are going to see the beavers at the zoo today (but, as yet, don't see them "now")".
"We will be visiting the beavers at the zoo soon, maybe next week".

How does "eternity" fit into this potential dialogue--or "explanation" of events--that have, may, or won't ever, transpire or be experienced by you?

It doesn't fit into explantion. As you say, our language expresses things in terms of time. Eternity is not relevant to explain the events you've expressed. It is a concept of being apart from time, and therefore apart from the transpiring of events.

Where eternity does fit in is not in explanation of events, but in our relation to the world around us, including events as they transpire.

I asked:
What other natural occurrence/experience supports the notion of an "eternity"?

You offered:
Meditation, for one.
Could you elaborate upon that? I can "think" deeply, or "focus" my thoughts upon one idea...but I remain in the "here and now". Even if I "daydream", and my mind/focus becomes either transfixed or "transcendent", I'm still "here", and "now".

Right. "Here and now" is your relationship to eternity. In meditation, past and future can fall away until there is only here and now.

C'mon. Be fair. Please re-read my OP. I inquired most directly within that OP:
"...just what constitutes "eternity"?"

No "ifs", "an's", or "buts". ;-)

Pedantry is never fair.

I also asked some questions which you chose not to address regarding the concept of "eternity" (as you may otherwise understand/present it).

To wit:
"Does any "change" occur within an eternal realm of unending existence? If so, how is it perceived, absent any "beginning" or "end"? Can I unceasingly eat pizza for a billion years and have it seem like an instant, with no consequences of action? If so, have I "missed anything" that has transpired around me in those billion years? If not, then what value should I place upon the passing of a billion years that have no meaning or qualitative measure to me? If a billion years seems of feels like a day, or an hour, or a minute to me...then what value shall I place upon any efforts or deeds in those passing hundreds of millions of years?

I cannot address these in terms of eternity. The "eternal realm" that is "unending existence" is not eternity. That, to me, addresses the figurative "an eternity" which looks at things (rather than looking at eternity) in terms of time with no end.

If time has no measure, nor endpoint...then what does "an eternity" really mean to you?"

If we agree to drop the troubling "an" from that question, would you effort once more to lend some answer?

Eternity is like time minus time, or in other words it is the image that we are left with when we have stripped away the concept of "time" from the the image of the world as we observe it. It is not a picture frozen, like a snapshot --that is a moment in time. Eternity is "now," this instant, stripped of time.

There is empirical evidence. The conscious observation of "now" (or "nowness" if you prefer) is empirical evidence.

I see. How long does a conscious observation of any given "now" last?

An instant.

Does it have any measure? Is "conscious observation" static, transitional, or "eternal"? If so, as compared to what?

I guess you could call an instant a measure, but I don't how you'd measure it. I don't know what you mean by your second question. Conscious observation is static in that it is constant while one is conscious, transitional in that we break it down into states and take it different places with us, and "eternal" in the figurative sense in that it lasts a very long time, as long as we do.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Not much defining to it. Eternity is the never ending existence of thing(s)

 

[Willamena]

Not much defining to it. Eternity is the never ending existence of thing(s)

Is eternity limited? Do you believe that things' existence had a beginning?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Eternity is not limited, otherwise it wouldnt be eternity ! Everything (xcept god) was created at one point.

 

[blackout]

Don't you think
"no beginning, no end"
dovetails rather well with
"no past, no future"?

a cosmic ahhhhh moment....

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Your like a mystic meg....

 

[moegypt]

I cannot image why a "god" would "give" us something once again that "he" already gave us so "long ago" that we no longer recall the "giving".

To live in the consequences of our life (our test).

 

[s2a]

Your whole notion of asking how long something lasts as a measure of time is flawed. Therefore (duh) eternity is immeasurable.

I find your lacking illustration in support of your summary conclusion that my provided notion is "flawed", to be, um, severely lacking in any substantiation or credulity.

The absurdity of your rote dismissal ignores so many tangible and real measures of observation and experience as utterly meaningless gobbledygook.

Is it ridiculous to examine the measured life-span of a bacterium? Is it "flawed" thinking that prevails in determinations of acceptable shelf-lives of fresh milk? Is there no advantage nor insight to be gleaned from such knowledge?

Why is time useful then?

Time is a measure of change. Change defines existence within the human condition.

The observable cosmos is not static. The cosmos exists in perpetual change, and we measure that phenomena as "time". This is not a matter of semantics. Whatever you prefer to name/call/denote this ever-changing existence, by whatever favored phrase or terminology you choose ("It's not 'time', it's ying-yang watsooie!"); "time" is a valid and real concept the rest of us will look to as a reliable measure of change.

If time has neither meaning nor utility in your greater understanding of the cosmos, then I invite you to send me your entire collection or wrist-watches and clocks. I'm itching to find a good reason to sell useless stuff on ebay...given time...;-)

 

[methylatedghosts]

To me, eternity is forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever... well... you get the point.

But I also think there is such a thing as being "outside of time" where everything is and was all at the same "time". Eventually we'll stop moving and experience everything for what it is.

 

[sojourner]

What does the concept of "eternity" mean to you?

You're standing in line at the grocery store, behind a woman with a full cart. And none of the items in her basket are priced. And she wants to pay by check. It's the checker's first day on the job, and she doesn't speak English. Take a few minutes off that time, and you get a pretty good idea of just what eternity means.

 

[Melissa G]

Eternity is timelessness. No beginning, no end.

"An eternity" is a figure of speech that indicates a very long time.

Time isn't infinite, it started with the Big Bang, and continues as the universe expands outwards. In accordance with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Universal time is measured in light years, earth time in accordance to Earth's orbit around the Sun. I don't believe humans can truly grasp infinity. Several Mathematicians went crazy trying to work out an equation for an infinite possibility.

Eternity is a figure of speech for many, meaning anything from waiting too long for a bus lol, to waiting for a holiday to come around.

Melissa

 

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Willamena
Eternity is timelessness. No beginning, no end.

"An eternity" is a figure of speech that indicates a very long time.

Time isn't infinite, it started with the Big Bang, and continues as the universe expands outwards. In accordance with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Universal time is measured in light years, earth time in accordance to Earth's orbit around the Sun. I don't believe humans can truly grasp infinity. Several Mathematicians went crazy trying to work out an equation for an infinite possibility.

Eternity is a figure of speech for many, meaning anything from waiting too long for a bus lol, to waiting for a holiday to come around.

Melissa

Hi, Melissa. Your sig says, "In the beginning there was nothing, not even time---no planets, no stars, no hip-hop, no rhyme..."

That's eternity to me.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings.

>How do you define eternity?

The conventional definition would seem to suffice....

Peace,

Bruce

Greetings Bruce. With a genuine interest in your view, a check on the 'conventional' came up with too many options. Just for clarification, would that be timelessness, endlessness of time, all-time, all-temporality, transcendent to time, infinite time, any of these, or some other concept?
Best Wishes,
a..1

 

[logician]

As far as our universe is concerned, time w/o beginning or end is not the rule, as our univese had a beginning, and will end in some manner billions of years down the road.

On a multiverse scale, matter and energy may be eternal.

I don't believe in a soul or spirit, so I think our lives are finite.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Eternity is time-transcending, not time everlasting.

 

[BruceDLimber]

With a genuine interest in your view, a check on the 'conventional' came up with too many options. Just for clarification, would that be timelessness, endlessness of time, all-time, all-temporality, transcendent to time, infinite time, any of these, or some other concept?

Hi again!

Basically, all of the above (save that time is part of creation and hence doesn't appear directly to apply). The common word "forever" seems to summarize this well, I think....

To amplify about as much as is possible (in this life), I'll post the passages below from the Baha'i scriptures. This is about as much as we can say given that IOV it's only through Divine Revelation and the scriptures it brings that we have any real knowledge of this at all!

“Thou hast asked Me whether man, as apart from the Prophets of God and His chosen ones, will retain, after his physical death, the self-same individuality, personality, consciousness, and understanding that characterize his life in this world. If this should be the case, how is it, thou hast observed, that whereas such slight injuries to his mental faculties as fainting and severe illness deprive him of his understanding and consciousness, his death, which must involve the decomposition of his body and the dissolution of its elements, is powerless to destroy that understanding and extinguish that consciousness? How can any one imagine that man's consciousness and personality will be maintained, when the very instruments necessary to their existence and function will have completely disintegrated?

“Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, pp. 153-154)


“And now concerning thy question whether human souls continue to be conscious one of another after their separation from the body. Know thou that the souls of the people of Baha, who have entered and been established within the Crimson Ark, shall associate and commune intimately one with another, and shall be so closely associated in their lives, their aspirations, their aims and strivings as to be even as one soul. They are indeed the ones who are well-informed, who are keen-sighted, and who are endued with understanding. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

“The people of Baha, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are, one and all, well aware of one another's state and condition, and are united in the bonds of intimacy and fellowship. Such a state, however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another's capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them. Each shall receive his share from thy Lord. Blessed is the man that hath turned his face towards God, and walked steadfastly in His love, until his soul hath winged its flight unto God, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Most Powerful, the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Merciful.

“The souls of the infidels, however, shall -- and to this I bear witness -- when breathing their last be made aware of the good things that have escaped them, and shall bemoan their plight, and shall humble themselves before God. They shall continue doing so after the separation of their souls from their bodies.

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Ibid., pp. 169-171)


“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station.... The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Ibid., pp. 155-157)


Best regards,

Bruce

 

[love]

God in His infinite wisdom gave us clear signs that mankind understood early on to measure the days and the seasons. We have broken it down to nanoseconds. Infinity I think is beyond our comprehension. I have tried to imagine nothingness. I am not talking about a giant void that takes up space, but absolute nothingness. This is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Willamena]

God in His infinite wisdom gave us clear signs that mankind understood early on to measure the days and the seasons. We have broken it down to nanoseconds. Infinity I think is beyond our comprehension. I have tried to imagine nothingness. I am not talking about a giant void that takes up space, but absolute nothingness. This is beyond my comprehension.

It's just a matter of divorcing yourself from "nanoseconds," and all seconds.

You're number one.