Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
Which parts of the Bible are literal/historical and which parts are figurative/metaphorical? I have only read Genesis so far, and don't know much about Christianity.
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How do you read the Bible?
- Thread starter Daniel Nicholson
- Start date
I try to read it as deeply as possible.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Its a mix throughout. Some have real places and even some real names. A lot of mythologies do.
As a suggestion, compare it with secular archeology and anthropology to get a fairly good ratio on what's factual and fantasy.
In response to the title question, I read it left to right, top to bottom, and front to back.
Before I offer my insights, I'm curious to hear your answer to your own question after reading Genesis.
Before I offer my insights, I'm curious to hear your answer to your own question after reading Genesis.
Genesis is technically only 1/5 of a larger work comprising the first five books in the bible. It is made of 5 books, but they function as a single book. The first five books could easily be named "I Pentateuch, II Pentateuch etc up to V Pentateuch" but are instead called Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus Numbers & Deuteronomy. Actually they are a set, so treat them like they are parts 1 through 5 of a larger volume. They are often sold as a set. They are "The Law" and actually did once function as a set of laws and some ways still do. Think of them as law with stories in it -- like case files and laws all together. Try to imagine how the country functions and what the laws are for.
Every other book -- absolutely every other book -- is either commentary on the first five or in some way builds upon them.
Other books are all independent of one another. Some are poetry. None of them have a strict genre -- such fiction or non fiction or science. The writers expect you to interpret what genre they are. You are the decider, and you taste and see what is what. Also -- authors of all other books in the bible always assume you have read and are familiar with all parts of the Pentateuch. That is the center, and they expect you to be very interested in the workings of the laws. After all they consider you to be a literate Jewish person, probably a male. Expect to be challenged in that area of your knowledge. It may help to read about cultural artifacts of the time period when the laws and other books have been written, such as how houses were constructed and how clothing was worn. There are lots of things in the Pentateuch that are difficult to understand without some additional knowledge of Jewish culture.
The bible is a library, so it has many authors. One of the books is called Psalms and is actually a book of lyrics for hymns and is not meant to be read like a book. If you aren't familiar with other books of the bible then the Psalms will be somewhat opaque and may seem all the same. What you mainly get from Psalms is that they are meant to be sung at gatherings and at the temple.
A very easy and enjoyable book is Proverbs. Its full of sayings, many of which are easy to decipher though some seem a little bit like riddles.
Unlike the five books of the Pentateuch the rest of the bible is made of separate books. There are occasions where a book is split into two, but this is obvious when it happens. The names are the same and simply start with a number: I Kings and II Kings, I Chronicles and II Chronicles etc and they will always be right next to each other. With the exception of the five books of the pentateuch any two books in the bible with different names are completely separate entities, though some may be by the same authors.
So imagine you are a Jew living in a small patch of land surrounded by 5 North Koreas. Each country around you has a cult surrounding its politics, and they are all like Kim Jong Il or Xioping, all shouting "You need me or there will chaos! You need me or morality will crumble! You need my leadership or you will starve." The difference between you and the nations around you is that you don't need a king, because you have the law. You and your family have this treasure which frees you from all the mess and nasty need for continual warfare. That makes you different from the people around you, a Jew. So this law is very important, something which frees you and enables you to live a better life than people in all those N Koreas.
That's how to read it.
That's how to read it.
I'm not Christian, but I can tell you that, as you can see already, you'll get different answers from different people. Even within Christianity there are different approaches to this issue. I suggest you try reading on, and, as @SalixIncendium suggested, try figuring what you think is literal and what isn't. And then we can get down to quibbling about the details.
I think a good place to begin reading, and this includes Christianity, is Exodus. It kind of lays the groundwork for the entire Bible. As for the literal, first read it as it is, then through study, discover the intent of the author that he conveyed through the many forms.
Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
Thank you, that would be helpful. But if I could ask another question: What did the authors intend to be literal vs figurative, with the knowledge available at the time?
Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
Thank you, very informative
You are welcome.
"Freely you have received, so freely give."
Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
Very good sir, perhaps you guessed an unspoken intent. I hope I don't narrow the conversation down too much by answering. I think that the Bible was once thought to be entirely literal and historical, but as time passed, passages that were not compatible with new discoveries, values, knowledge, etc. were put into the figurative/ metaphoric category. I'm curious how you all categorize things in 2021.
Personally, I think modern science disproves a lot of Genesis. So it must be a metaphor right?
I doubt it was ever thought to be literal.
Are you familiar with Egyptian myths that posit Egypt as the gift of the Nile and the Pharoah as a god? To the Egyptians these are state propaganda not just myths. The Canaanites (today modern Israel) live nearby, and Egypt for thousands of years intimidates and extorts them. Its state religion says to do so. Many other countries try to imitate Egypt because it is successful. It has fertile land from the Nile's floods and is wealthy enough to maintain a large army. That's why the Canaanites are surrounded by pushy countries that offer them protection whilst also threatening and extorting. They are, literally for thousands of years, pushed around.
The story of Genesis parodies Egyptian myths which are believed hard by Egyptians, but that doesn't mean the Canaanites believe their own. Kings push myths that strengthen themselves politically. An Egyptian must absolutely believe in Egypt's myths or be a traitor to the nation. The Canaanites, on the other hand, are trying to remain independent traders. They see the brainless state that has been imposed upon the Egyptians, much like S Koreans today can see the hoodoo put upon the people to the north of themselves.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
I think it was written as a creation myth. Obviously not literal or history.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There is no dividing line. Even the parts that are history tend to incorporate legend. You have to use your common sense. I take it that you took Literature and Composition in school, and learned to tell different genres apart. It's the same thing here. Ask yourself what genre is being used, and whether the author is speaking figuratively or not. It's all just reading comprehension.
Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
Genesis starts off with complete nonsense about the creation of the earth and man, which can only be read as fiction. Then it gets to the part where God demands that baby boys have their foreskin cut off, and people took that literally?
Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
Why was circumcision taken literally?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The first 11 chapters of Genesis are certainly myth, but myth is not "complete nonsense." Myths are creative teaching stories. We embody our deepest values in myth. Indeed myth is the most powerful form of literature there is. I suggest you read JRR Tolkien's essay, "On Fairy Stories." It will give you a healthy respect for myth. https://coolcalvary.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/on-fairy-stories1.pdf
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Didn't the ritual exist before the story?