How do you survive?

[claycad]

Need some serious advice, please take time to read. Thanks.



Hi, I am new to the forums, and am more agnostic then atheist, but even though I believe in the possibility of a diety/s I do not believe that if they do exist they intervene in our existence or that their is any form of an afterlife.

This is something I have thought much about, and to me the belief that an afterlife exists defies my logic and is something I cannot believe even though I wish I could.

I am at a point in my life where I am considering suicide. It's not that I feel particularly depressed (although I am currently on and have been on medication for depression and am also in therapy for depression). I don't feel I consider suicide because I am particularly unhappy. Nothing about my circumstances really make me consider this. They are quite good at the moment. I would just rather cease to exist then deal with the responsibilities of living. If a person perceives life as being more beneficial then not, then great. But for me, I don't see it that way. I know what happiness feels like, and feel quite content at the moment. I just don’t feel that happiness compensates for the majority of life. It seems futile to me to do things you would rather not, just to end up as nonexistence anyway. Why not make it sooner then later?

The main thing preventing me from killing myself is the love and closeness I have for my family. I know that my death would be devastating to them, even if I made it look like an accident. It would essentially ruin my parent’s perfect lives. But I am to the point of questioning why I should remain in this state for anyone else’s benefit. I have tried to find some higher reason to live. Something that will motivate me to want to put up with the day to day BS of living, but struggle.

[FONT=&quot]Of course I posted this on many other forums, but always seem to get the same religious BS, so thought maybe I could get some rational answers here.

I just wanted to get some advice on how you cope with the fact of mortality, the knowledge that you will die and cease to exist, and the significance of remaining alive. Is life worth living? Not looking for sympathy, just guidance. Thank you for reading.
[/FONT]

 

[PureX]

Your attitude toward life doesn't own you, and it's not an inevitable state unto itself. You can change your mind about how you feel about living. So if you really want to think and feel differently about your life, you can.

It's not real easy to for we humans to change. It will take some effort and persistence on your part, but in the end you could achieve a whole new outlook on life that would forever end this perilous narcissism that you are now currently experiencing.

Step one: is to set who you are now, and what you believe about life and death, aside. Just set it aside and let yourself be a clean slate. Forget what you think is true or untrue about these things. Every time these questions comes into your mind, consciously set them aside, unconsidered, and think about something else. You'll have to practice at this for a while until it becomes second nature.

Step two: teach yourself to look for what's good in life, and then work on "growing" those things. You have a couple of friends or family members that you like being with? Spend more time with them. Pay attention to them, and what they like, and see how you can add to their joy, and to your own (you will find that your joy increases and theirs increases). Make adding to their joy your focus, and stop focussing so much on your own state of happiness. It's an odd fact of life that the more we focus on our own feelings, the more frustrated we become, while when we seek to increase the joy of others, we find that our own joy increases, too.

Step three: when at some point in the future you suddenly realize that your whole outlook on life really has changed, catch that moment and remember it, and practice being grateful for that change every day of your life. Then pass what you learned about the process of changing on to others.

 

[Revasser]

Hi claycad.

First off, I'll start by saying that I don't know you feel and I won't lie and say that I do or, indeed, that I want to. Serious suicidal thoughts are something I have never and hope never to experience, so you'll have to take what I say as coming from that perspective.

When it comes to mortality, I personally don't tend to spend much time pondering it. Too quote a line from a camp sci-fi TV series, "death will attend to itself." In the end, there's very little we can do about it except hold it off for a while, so if I ultimately am powerless to actually prevent it, there's seems little point in worrying. I do not, however, see much point in deliberately hastening it either, but then, like I said, suicide is not something I've ever seriously contemplated.

I don't see ceasing to exist as particularly terrible. When it happens, I obviously will not be aware of it. It will be like what it was like before I became cognitive. Or like a dreamless sleep that lasts forever. It's not something scary (though the process of going from the state of being alive to the state of being dead could be quite unpleasant and is not something I'm keen on being awake for.)

For now, I'd much rather be alive than dead. Maybe there will come a time when that is no longer true for some reason, but for now it is. There is a lot to like about being alive. Interesting challenges, new knowledge to acquire, pleasure to receive, lots of lovely sins to indulge and lots of help to give to others. I like it, despite the many less-than-wonderful things about our world. I guess for me, it comes to down to not being finished yet. There are too many things I'd like to do or learn or places I'd like to go. Couple that with basic animal survival instinct and I find it compelling.

Life is worth living. You only get one. Once it's over, you go back to not being alive and you can do that for the rest of eternity, so what's the rush? I think I might as well make the most of it and hog it for as long as I can while I've got a good grip on it.

 

[Kungfuzed]

It is physically impossible for things to remain the way they are, the laws of thermodynamics I believe. Everything is constantly changing. If things aren't the way you like right now, just wait a while. Five years ago I was miserable too, and now I'm happier than I've ever been, and things just keep getting better. If there's nothing after this life, why not stick around and find out how things turn out? What have you got to loose by staying with us? Focus on education, self improvement, and relationships, and things will get better for the long term.

 

[sparc872]

Hey there clayclad. While I don't know the exact feeling you are describing, I can tell you my view of life and existence and why it means more to be alive than to be dead.

I used to question what you are questioning, I struggled with it for some time when I first became an atheist. For me, it was the leftovers of my Christian life and thinking that was holding me there.

Ok, here's what I believe; how I see things. Life is consciousness. Without life, there is no consciousness. We do not experience pain, love, joy, anger, confusion, unless we are alive. We are each the product of billions of years of chance and change in a wild and chaotic universe. We have been granted this gift of life, this ability to see things from a perspective that only we can experience. This is our only shot we will ever get to experience what it means to be alive, so we might as well do our best to try at it. Life is full of mysteries, and death is nothing. Why choose death when you can choose life? You can experience love, you can teach others, you can gaze at the stars in wonder. There is so much about this universe that we don't know and understand, so much amazement and wonder and, for me at least, to squander our lives or throw them to waste would be a great shame. We need to spend every waking minute soaking this up, and helping to allow future generations to do the same. Because, for me, life is the greatest thing we will ever have.

 

[Doc]

I know I am only in my late teens, and that I have never considered suicide, but I have felt depressed before. One thing that really got me out of a rut was doing some very simple volunteer work a few years ago. I thought around the same lines. 'This life is quite meaningless. It is boring, futile, and really I don't feel happy at all.'

When I really encountered the deepest of human suffering in society within my own city, I felt truly alive. I felt it gave me a certain degree of gratitude. I became far more appreciative. It deepened compassion. A sense of purpose maybe? I am not sure yet.

Just today, I sang German Christmas charols at a retirement home for some real old people. I looked around. These people are frail and are at the last stop before death. They can barely walk or talk and are helplessly dependant on others.

After singing, I walked around with others handing out Christmas cards schreibt auf Deuscth. One particular gentleman inquired about the card I had given him. He asked whether I had made it, how much German I spoke, and if I was in fact of German heritage. I spoke with him for several minutes just talking. We are generations apart. 60 or 70 years maybe. I was sad when it was time to leave.

Anyway, I am an atheist myself but I enjoy life as much as I can. I believe that doing some occasional selfless actions can really add meaning to our lives no matter what we believe in. It can really build appreciation for what we have and focus much less on what we don't have.

 

[claycad]

Thank you all for your input. I have recently brought up my religious beliefs with my therapist, and how I think my lack of belief in an afterlife is the cause of much of my feelings that life is rather meaningless. Bringing it up wasn't easy as I know that my therapist is Christian and I have always had fears of being ridiculed for what I belief and feared that she would try to convert my beliefs to her own. To my surprise she didn't, and was very understanding of my beliefs. We are working on me trying to find something to give my life more meaning such has helping others and volunteering. I suppose I have a lot of doubts about if it will help me find enough meaning to want to live, but I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks again for all your input and concern.

 

[!Fluffy!]

Need some serious advice, please take time to read. Thanks.



Hi, I am new to the forums, and am more agnostic then atheist, but even though I believe in the possibility of a diety/s I do not believe that if they do exist they intervene in our existence or that their is any form of an afterlife.

This is something I have thought much about, and to me the belief that an afterlife exists defies my logic and is something I cannot believe even though I wish I could.

I am at a point in my life where I am considering suicide. It's not that I feel particularly depressed (although I am currently on and have been on medication for depression and am also in therapy for depression). I don't feel I consider suicide because I am particularly unhappy. Nothing about my circumstances really make me consider this. They are quite good at the moment. I would just rather cease to exist then deal with the responsibilities of living. If a person perceives life as being more beneficial then not, then great. But for me, I don't see it that way. I know what happiness feels like, and feel quite content at the moment. I just don’t feel that happiness compensates for the majority of life. It seems futile to me to do things you would rather not, just to end up as nonexistence anyway. Why not make it sooner then later?

The main thing preventing me from killing myself is the love and closeness I have for my family. I know that my death would be devastating to them, even if I made it look like an accident. It would essentially ruin my parent’s perfect lives. But I am to the point of questioning why I should remain in this state for anyone else’s benefit. I have tried to find some higher reason to live. Something that will motivate me to want to put up with the day to day BS of living, but struggle.

[FONT=&quot]Of course I posted this on many other forums, but always seem to get the same religious BS, so thought maybe I could get some rational answers here.

I just wanted to get some advice on how you cope with the fact of mortality, the knowledge that you will die and cease to exist, and the significance of remaining alive. Is life worth living? Not looking for sympathy, just guidance. Thank you for reading.
[/FONT]

You don't know me but I'm going to ask you to trust me here for a minute.

After all, what do you have to lose?

Having wandered the path you are on for a time, I remember, I feel, and I understand completely your angst. I really do. I talked about it only very briefly before, here on the forum. For a long time all I wanted was oblivion. Darkness. Nothing.

I could tell you how to find relief for what you are going through, but I don't think you want that from someone you don't know. And I believe that relief will actually find you.

But I do want to warn you, in hopes you will avoid making a critical and irrerversible error which I narrowly escaped. Afterwards I was left with a FACT to share with you and anyone else seeking oblivion.

Beat me, put a gun to my head, take everything I own and throw me in prison, threaten me with the most horrible torture and still I would declare with my dying breath:

THERE IS NO OBLIVION. Sorry to disappoint you but the relief you seek is bogus. It's not something we have a choice about either. I know what you want. I know what you need. You have every right to be depressed. We live, we suffer, we die: for what? It's senseless. That's the conundrum. What's the point of it all? That's what you need to know. But... you have stopped short, so to speak and taken a critical wrong turn (as I did). And if you continue on the course you are contemplating you will surely experience something. But it won't be the oblivion you'd hoped for. How do I know? Well, that's a long story.

Of course you can dismiss it as an "opinion" or a loopy idea. (Considering your post I would actually be shocked if you believed otherwise). That's okay.

The truth is, our opinions and ideas are worth exactly *nothing*. It's the reality we are left with after all the words are said, and the last breath has left the body.... that's the reality that matters once you have closed and locked the door.

And the reality is a shocker: death will not be so kind as to grant you an escape from the meaninglessness of Life or your current state of mind, and there is no oblivion.

Your next question should be: Why should the lack of meaning 'disappoint' or leave one feeling empty? Do we have a credible need for meaning?

Let me explain.
We eat. Why? Because we hunger.
We drink. Why? Because we thirst.
When we hunger or thirst, the yearning for food or water quickly becomes our central focus. Soon nothing else matters. The same goes for any common need we experience: the need for warmth when we're cold, the need for comfort, security, and for love.

And we learn. Why? Because we are curious.

Obviously all these needs contribute to our survival and well-being (individually and as a species), and while they may create temporary discomfort for the individual they are also a source of fulfillment, once the need is met.

But what if these needs are ignored? Everyone knows that hunger goes away if you go long enough without eating. Eventually hunger is replaced with apathy and before long a lethal lethargy, and a fatal indifference.

Now we also may yearn for something beyond ourselves, something perhaps we have never seen or felt (such as immortality or unconditional love). If we follow this natural desire to its conclusion, all will be well and we will find the ultimate satisfaction.

However, like any other basic need the yearning for this unnamable something beyond ourselves can be thwarted, dismissed, or ignored and therefore create an illness which will eventually threaten the individual's survival.

There are certain illnesses that, if left untreated, eventually rob us of our natural ability to even feel hunger or thirst or pain.

Your soul is sick and needs attention. Its natural yearning for meaning has been thwarted and ignored for too long; all that is left is a replacement yearning for the ultimate Nothing. It is a sort of spiritual neurosis, become pathological.

You can't lie to your body. If you fill your tummy with indigestible garbage it will give it right back to you and make you pay with discomfort or pain.

The same goes for your 'soul' (or if you prefer, the thing inside you that is making you feel empty). It knows the difference between indigestible garbage and truth, and it won't be happy until it is fulfilled. Your 'soul' has suffered the indignity of being ignored nearly out of existence. It KNOWS the difference between truth and lies. It is clamoring for affirmation. It is begging for truth. Yet you will not allow for what it wants, because you do not believe what it wants even exists. You have shut it away from the light for too long.

This annoying thing that has almost driven you to suicide WANTS and YEARNS. It is hungry. It was put inside of you (again, we have no choice in the matter) for a reason. To find that which it needs: unconditional love, and unconditional truth, and *get this*: IMMORTALITY. These unmet needs have robbed you of your natural passion!

You see, to your soul life makes no sense without immortality and you have found that out the hard way.

MY ADVICE:
1. Realizing you are in crisis, take a chance for the sake of your psyche and assume the soul actually exists. You'll be glad you did.

2. Find those things your soul may have been clamoring for before you shut it out of your life, and you may just find a peace beyond human understanding. Why not try? Others have found what it is the soul yearns for. Let yours have a chance... you have nothing to lose.

3. Do some research of Near Death Experiences (NDE's) with a more open mind, and read some of the many thousands of stories written by people of all faiths, including atheists, who have experienced life after clinical death. Some of these include compelling evidence for an after life, including people who were blind from birth being able to see and describe the rooms they 'died' in and the people around them. (As with any human experience, there are loony tunes out there so be discerning). The stories are insightful and inspiring and at the very least, they make for great reading (like this one).

4. If there is anything you have always wanted to do, no matter how crazy, dangerous, impractical or 'selfish' it seems: Do it. Again, you have nothing to lose.

(((((((HUGS)))))) for posting, and welcome to RF!! I hope with all my heart you find everything you are seeking!!

DISCLAIMERS: I have no doubt there are some who have never experienced the angst or need for 'meaning' as discussed here. My discussion in that regard, is for the edification of the original poster only, and not meant to elicit debate.

/just my crazy 2 cents, and I sincerely apologize for the length of this post. I am a lousy editor!

 

[My name is Wanda]

You're seeing a therapist, which is good. If you weren't, I'd recommend that you do so.

I've always felt that you exist so you can exist. Remember that the odds against you existing at all are astronomical, and that life is a very brief opportunity that you will never have again: you should try to grasp it.

As for what meaning you should have in your life, that's something that you'll have to discover for yourself. You say your family is important, so make them a part of your reason for living, and for more than just their own sakes. Actively try to become an important part of their life, and do the same things for your friends, and even strangers. You'll find that you will get much out of the relationship.

Remember too, that while your life might end, your actions will still infulence the world after you're gone. If you have children, then they will carry your genes - a part of you - into the future, and even if you don't have biological children, the actions that you have undertaken will still influence those who have been in contact with you. I do not believe in a soul, but I know that everything I do will influence the world, and people's lives in it. That will be my afterlife.

 

[FatMan]

My attitude is that as humans, we somewhat control our own destinies. We can make them as significant or insignificant as we want, although doing so may expend a great deal of time and effort. The point is - we differ from most animals in that on Earth, we can make ourselves better or worse.

As a person who has known several people who have committed suicide, I have a natural bias against it. I've yet to see a situation where it was done that has turned out positive. And I'm sure each person who has committed it felt they were doing the best thing.

I'm not the type of person that would be good as a crisis negotiator because my attitude is if you want to jump, jump. Nobody will stop you. Making our own conscious decisions is both the greatest thing and the worst thing in the world. And controlling your own destiny ON EARTH has nothing to do with religion. If you want to cease to exist, it's your right to do so. Neither God, I nor the laws of physics will stop you. If you feel down because you are doing things you don't want to do, cease to do them - It really boils down to being your choice. A choice that will be irreversable.

 

[tmaromine]

Well, it seems already there'as been some amount of advice, or at least hopefully that is what it was to you.

I don't believe in an afterlife... nor any "higher-being" stuff, but maybe 'supernatural' stuff, like ghosts or whatever, but that's besides the point.

For me, it is noticing the smaller things in life, and how that they are beautiful and really just a 'chance'. Like a sunrise, or a sunset, or rolling clouds, or cool rain, a cool breeze. . . a gleam of sun coming through a slit in the clouds, the moon at night; helping some one, even with something small, and to see that it brings a smile to their face.

The small things, like those, that so very few seem to notice... I wonder why being 15 I see them and nearly all my peers would chuckle or give me a weird look, until I'd get mad and make it clear to them.

Take time to look at the sun behind the clouds, or those few visible stars forcing themselves through city light pollution at night. Do some thing that you like to do, even if any one else would look at it weird. Be yourself... If some one doesn't understand you, make sure they do; realise that there is no afterlife, thus which is what makes this life so valuable. And while you might be gone and all non-existant, there will be others behind which will mourn over your not being there.

I might've went a little off the topic in a sentence or two, but for me it's mainly doing, noticing, and being what so few others ever be. Hope I've hleped a little, and hope to see you again.

Cheers, Timm

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

I just wanted to get some advice on how you cope with the fact of mortality, the knowledge that you will die and cease to exist, and the significance of remaining alive. Is life worth living? Not looking for sympathy, just guidance. Thank you for reading.

Well, I don't know how good I am at giving this kind of advice, but I'll give it a shot. I've never had serious suicidal thoughts before, but I've certainly been very depressed at times. I got over it by writing everything that I felt and thought through poetry, and taking long walks in woods that are supposed to be off limits to me. Just enjoying nature, and figuring out that I am part of a bigger scheme of things.

Well, firstly I am a Christian. So, bypassing the fact that I feel I should continue living in order to glorify God, I also just feel like life is fun. Life is an adventure for me. You never know what's going to happen next. So I really just want to live to figure out how things will turn out for me. Plus, there's so many things I feel like I haven't done yet, and need to get done before I bite the dust, so to speak. Life is worth living. There are so many things I love about living, my family and friends and cat, trees, mountain streams, sunsine, dancing, rollercoasters, chocolate, music, cell phones, books, writing, sleeping, fried chicken...I could go on for a long time. But I think you get my point. Would you really want to leave all this behind? Afterall, life is just so fun. You might as well stick it out until you die naturally, right?

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Take time to look at the sun behind the clouds, or those few visible stars forcing themselves through city light pollution at night. Do some thing that you like to do, even if any one else would look at it weird. Be yourself... If some one doesn't understand you, make sure they do; realise that there is no afterlife, thus which is what makes this life so valuable. And while you might be gone and all non-existant, there will be others behind which will mourn over your not being there.

That is sooo true. Stars are nice. I love sleeping under the stars, waking up occasionally, and just looking at them. Trying to pick out constellations and stuff. It's pretty amazing. Sometimes, when it's raining, I just go outside and spin around in circles and laugh really loud, and all my neighbors think I'm crazy, but you know what, who really cares? And I often wake up really early just to go sit on the porch and watch the sun rise. And my parents think I'm completely nuts, a teenager who actually doesn't sleep until 2:30 on weekends. And I love to walk to the one little creek in my neighborhood, and just sit by it and think about things. Which, to all of my friends, is just weird...but that's really my point...life is fun, being differant is fun! Make the most of living!Do something crazy you would never have considered doing. Go walk in some woods randomly, stick your tongue to metal on a cold day, go bungee jumping. Do something amazing!

 

[Seraphiel]

claycad, you've got a lot to learn my friend. Killing yourself doesn't help a thing. You could be wandering around as a lost spirit for ages and when you finaly cross over you have the change to be send right back again, because you where not finished learning. People saying that they are mortal don't quite understand the meaning with life. In fact you are not mortal at all. It's only your body that breaks down. And that is nothing to be afraid about. here you devestated when your last car died? No? Or just a little? What did you do? You bought a new one! And you are driving that car just as happy as the first one.

The only thing you have to do is going through life as it comes to you. Make the best out of it and stop being afraid of negative things. Negativity is a part of life.

 

[Ðanisty]

We often don't know or realize how depressed we are. It just becomes a state of being and we push it aside and move on without realizing how unhappy we really are. It's very easy to think you're happy when really there is more going on. Dig a little deeper.

 

[des]

Yes, I'm glad you're seeing a therapist. You know that suicidal (and even
occassionally homocidal thoughts) are not uncommon in teens and young adults. The fact is that almost everybody has them, and it is just a part of the growing up, getting your own mind and thoughts, and reviewing all possible options (indeed it is an option, not a good one, but an option).
When I was in my twenties I developed quite a serious depression (and yes, I think you could be clinically depressed-- I'm not a doctor or anything), and couldn't see any reason for living. I was (and continue to be on anti-depressants, and they did help. I am on a much reduced dose). I decided that, after a logn time, I was curious as to how things would work out. (I'm happy I stuck around, as things have turned out pretty interesting, and I am a LOT happier and more together in my 50s than I ever was earlier in life.)

Although followers of various religions will claim that their faith helped them out of such a state, and perhaps it did. I am inclined to see this as an equal opportunity condition, and I would bet the stats would bear me out on this.

Hang in there.

--des