How does a 6000 yr. creationist explain the Hawaiian Islands

[rocketman]

You quote the bible as evidence, carbon dating is based on a concrete mathematical formula, the bible is just a book. Don't be a hypocrite.

I have to admit I'm having trouble finding where Heneni quoted the bible specifically as evidence against carbon dating. Perhaps you could point it out to me?

 

[gnostic]

EDIT: In addition, we don't know the whole of Egyptian mythology - I hate it when people act like we do. We only know what we've been able to translate, which is maybe half of it, at absolute best. There is no possible way to know every detail from any mythology in the history of the human race.

OK, the Egyptian does have a flood myth, but it has not happen yet. It is supposed to be a prophecy that the earth will be covered by the primeval water. This flood will destroy the world.

There is a number of creation myth started with primeval water, before the creation of the sun, earth, mankind, and even before the gods. So this primeval water in the beginning didn't destroy anything. It was there before the gods.

Here is the Heliopolitian creation myth:

There were only abyss (primeval water), known as Nu or Nun. Re (or Ra) created himself and appeared above the primeval water. After creating the primeval mound, in which he created two deities, Shu (Air) and Tefnut (Moisture). These new two gods created, Geb (Earth) and Nut (Sky), and they in turn gave birth to Osiris, Horus the Elder, Seth, Isis and Nephyths. Re then created mankind, through his tears.

So in the beginning there were only water. But sometimes in the future (according to the Book of the Dead) there would be a flood that destroy the world, and the primeval water will covered the earth, once again. This is Re unmaking his creation. According to the ancient Egyptians, this has not happened....yet.

But there's no Flood myth in the Egyptian myth that applied here. If you looking for one, then you won't find one.

You will, however, find a Greek myth from Plato. According to Plato, in one of his dialogues (I don't remember if this is from Timaeus or Critas; both dialogues talk of Atlantis, but I think it is Timaeus that tell the whole story, but I am not too sure; sorry), Solon learned from the Egyptians about Atlantis, but in reality, the Egyptians have NO such myths about Atlantis or the Flood that destroyed this kingdom.

The Atlantis is Plato's invention. Just because he says that Egyptians said this or that. Furthermore Solon never visited Egypt, PERIOD; it's just another fiction that Plato made up.

Many of Plato's dialogues were meant to teach people, just like Jesus with his parables.

 

[darkendless]

I have to admit I'm having trouble finding where Heneni quoted the bible specifically as evidence against carbon dating. Perhaps you could point it out to me?

Have you seen every other thread she contributed to?

 

[rocketman]

Have you seen every other thread she contributed to?

Many of them, yes. Still does not make your engineered equivocation any more valid. Perhaps you should have made it clear that you were refering to her overall use of quotes. If you want accuracy from the other side then show some on yours.

Now that we know what you meant I have to tell you that are wrong in any case. Just because someone regularly quotes the bible elsewhere does not mean that they are necessarily using that as an argument here and now. Did she not give a science-based reason for her doubts about carbon dating? Yes in fact she did. If I may add to her take: while it's true that carbon dating is often inconsistent it is also true that it is often a very consistent method. It's variable at times, and that's a fact, period. I'll let you debate with her the degree of 'silliness' this may or may not invoke.

 

[darkendless]

Many of them, yes. Still does not make your engineered equivocation any more valid. Perhaps you should have made it clear that you were refering to her overall use of quotes. If you want accuracy from the other side then show some on yours.

Now that we know what you meant I have to tell you that are wrong in any case. Just because someone regularly quotes the bible elsewhere does not mean that they are necessarily using that as an argument here and now. Did she not give a science-based reason for her doubts about carbon dating? Yes in fact she did. If I may add to her take: while it's true that carbon dating is often inconsistent it is also true that it is often a very consistent method. It's variable at times, and that's a fact, period.

I don't call that scientific. m not trying to be perfectly vaild, no matter what anyone says people will always disagree. I don't claim to be a professional in Carbon dating, but if all these people have a better method i'd like to see it.

 

[kai]

OK, the Egyptian does have a flood myth, but it has not happen yet. It is supposed to be a prophecy that the earth will be covered by the primeval water. This flood will destroy the world.

There is a number of creation myth started with primeval water, before the creation of the sun, earth, mankind, and even before the gods. So this primeval water in the beginning didn't destroy anything. It was there before the gods.

Here is the Heliopolitian creation myth:

There were only abyss (primeval water), known as Nu or Nun. Re (or Ra) created himself and appeared above the primeval water. After creating the primeval mound, in which he created two deities, Shu (Air) and Tefnut (Moisture). These new two gods created, Geb (Earth) and Nut (Sky), and they in turn gave birth to Osiris, Horus the Elder, Seth, Isis and Nephyths. Re then created mankind, through his tears.

So in the beginning there were only water. But sometimes in the future (according to the Book of the Dead) there would be a flood that destroy the world, and the primeval water will covered the earth, once again. This is Re unmaking his creation. According to the ancient Egyptians, this has not happened....yet.

But there's no Flood myth in the Egyptian myth that applied here. If you looking for one, then you won't find one.

You will, however, find a Greek myth from Plato. According to Plato, in one of his dialogues (I don't remember if this is from Timaeus or Critas; both dialogues talk of Atlantis, but I think it is Timaeus that tell the whole story, but I am not too sure; sorry), Solon learned from the Egyptians about Atlantis, but in reality, the Egyptians have NO such myths about Atlantis or the Flood that destroyed this kingdom.

The Atlantis is Plato's invention. Just because he says that Egyptians said this or that. Furthermore Solon never visited Egypt, PERIOD; it's just another fiction that Plato made up.

Many of Plato's dialogues were meant to teach people, just like Jesus with his parables.

check this out Gnostic , i know you know what you are talking about is it bunk?

http://library.thinkquest.org/29064/summaries/egypt_flood.html

Floods - Myth Encyclopedia - Flood Themes


seeing as the Nile flooded regularly its a wonder they didnt have a flood myth ?

 

[rock hop]

Kai, don't all flood Myths begin with rain, a deluge. It is no wonder that Egypt did not have such a Myth, it did not rain. Then again, how better to overcome such a fear, than to live by a flood that occurs regularly. A flood that one can walk away from, predict, even wonder in its giving and blessings.

 

[rocketman]

I don't call that scientific. m not trying to be perfectly vaild, no matter what anyone says people will always disagree.

Right, so she didn't quote a specific scripture against carbon dating. I'm glad we agree on that.

I don't claim to be a professional in Carbon dating, but if all these people have a better method i'd like to see it.

I understand, but showing a better method is not necessary in order to make the point that it's not a perfect method. As good as it is, the method is not a 'concrete mathematical formula' as you would say. The further back you go the more often many samples are needed and they have to be averaged and calibrated against complicated scales, themselves built on assumptions. (the last big change was this one I think). I'm not arguing wholesale against C14 dating, but I don't see why an alternative is required by those who don't trust the method as much as you and I might.

 

[gnostic]

check this out Gnostic , i know you know what you are talking about is it bunk?

http://library.thinkquest.org/29064/...ypt_flood.html

Floods - Myth Encyclopedia - Flood Themes


seeing as the Nile flooded regularly its a wonder they didnt have a flood myth ?

In regarding to both links. I know about the myth about Re and Hathor. The goddess killing a lot of mankind, not by flood, but by transforming herself into lion, as Sakhmet. She indeed wade through the blood of their victims, but it was not the flood that killed them. No one died drowning.

Re got some goddesses to make beer, mixed with mandrakes so it was red in colour and pour it in a valley, and Hathor became so drunk that she forgot about the killing more people.

This is not a Flood myth. Both sites are telling the myths wrong. And there is a lot more to the myth than both sites are telling.

 

[Arlanbb]

ROCK HOP ~ Your right about not much rain in Egypt but you forget that much of eastern and northern Africa drains into the Nile which cuts into Egypt. In 1960 they found that there are 5 Nile rives one on top of each other dating back millions of years. When the Aswan dam was being built right in the middle of the Nile river they drilled down 900 feet before they hit bedrock. The city of Cairo is sitting on top of another Grand Canyon type formation that has been filled in with silt from the many rivers from the past ages. arlan

 

[Runlikethewind]

Carbon dating only works on organic material and so is not relevant to the question at hand which is the age of the Hawaiian Islands. Some of the main criticisms of the Carbon method do not apply to the Potassium-Argon method.

 

[kai]

Kai, don't all flood Myths begin with rain, a deluge. It is no wonder that Egypt did not have such a Myth, it did not rain. Then again, how better to overcome such a fear, than to live by a flood that occurs regularly. A flood that one can walk away from, predict, even wonder in its giving and blessings.

i am not sure that it didnt have a flood myth , to have a regular flood but no myth seems at odds with mans need to explain that flood to me.

 

[kai]

In regarding to both links. I know about the myth about Re and Hathor. The goddess killing a lot of mankind, not by flood, but by transforming herself into lion, as Sakhmet. She indeed wade through the blood of their victims, but it was not the flood that killed them. No one died drowning.

Re got some goddesses to make beer, mixed with mandrakes so it was red in colour and pour it in a valley, and Hathor became so drunk that she forgot about the killing more people.

This is not a Flood myth. Both sites are telling the myths wrong. And there is a lot more to the myth than both sites are telling.

thanks

 

[Jeremy Mason]

How does a 6000 yr. creationist explain the Hawaiian Islands?

I didn't know people lived that long.

 

[gnostic]

thanks

Here is a translation of the part they referring to about Hathor:

Then the gods spake in the presence of his Majesty, saying:--"Let thine Eye go forth and let it destroy for thee those who revile thee with words of evil, for there is no eye whatsoever that can go before it and resist thee and it when it journeyeth in the form of Hathor." Thereupon this goddess went forth and slew the men and the women who were on the mountain (or, desert land). And the Majesty of this god said, "Come, come in peace, O Hathor, for the work is accomplished." Then this goddess said, "Thou hast made me to live, for when I gained the mastery over men and women it was sweet to my heart;" and the Majesty of Ra said, "I myself will be master over them as [their] king, and I will destroy them."

Nothing here referred to the Flood. It say the goddess slew, not drown these people.

The goddess Sekhet pour 7000 vessels of beer in the meadows, where Hathor had left the dead bodies. Did this cause a flood? It doesn't say, and it certainly did kill anyone.

The goddess does sail in a river (Nile), but not a river of blood, and saw what she thought was blood, and drank the red beer and became intoxicated. Hathor then forgot about killing men and women.