Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Can i be an actor Seyorni? I wanna be.
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How does God know the future?
- Thread starter Scott C.
- Start date
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
Hi. I'd go along with God being outside time, I mean, what is time? It is measured by us by the rotation of the earth around the sun and the rotation of the earth itself on its axis. We divide that into years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, seconds, etc. God is not confined to that.
Also, God promises to keep all He has given to his Son by his power, the will of the Son (God)is that all the Father (also God) gave him shall be with him eternally, and shall never perish nor be plucked from His hand, and anyone who comes to him he will "in no wise" (in the Greek, 5 neg's--never, no never, no never, cast out)
Who are kept by the power of God, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Also, God promises to keep all He has given to his Son by his power, the will of the Son (God)is that all the Father (also God) gave him shall be with him eternally, and shall never perish nor be plucked from His hand, and anyone who comes to him he will "in no wise" (in the Greek, 5 neg's--never, no never, no never, cast out)
Who are kept by the power of God, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Scott C.
Just one guy
Are you asking if I should know how God knows the future, before I can believe in God? If that's the question, my answer would be no. I believe Michael Jordan exists, even though I don't know how he makes those great lay ups.
Show up at the next casting-call and we'll give you an audition.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Now that i think about it. You are right, that makes perfect sense.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
I don't see how foreknowledge could be compatible with free will. If there exists an ending that we cannot change (because it already exists as knowledge), then free will is only an illusion created by our lack of knowledge.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
If we have free will, then god knows not what we would do in the future.
McBell
Unbound
The next question would be:
Does God know which path will be chosen?
If God is all knowing, he would have to.
If God does not know which path will be chosen, then he is not all knowing.
If God does know which path, what is the point in all of this?
Smoke
Done here.
God knows the future because he is outside time.
Because he is outside time, he has no past, present, or future.
Because he has no past, present, or future, he doesn't exist.
Because he doesn't exist, he cannot know.
Because he cannot know, he doesn't know.
OR
God is psychic.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
What is the point of knowing this? I mean, whether god knows or not, it aint to do with us.
Smoke
Done here.
If we believe the Bible, we'd have to conclude that god doesn't really know the future.
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
God was sorry he made humans, because they didn't turn out they way he had hoped.And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Sometimes God changes his mind, but if he really knew the future, his mind would already be made up, wouldn't it? Another example:And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand.
Pity poor Jonah, whom God compelled to go prophesy against Nineveh, but God changed his mind:
God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
... making Jonah, through no fault of his own, a false prophet.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
Yeah, your syllogism looks valid to me. The outside-of-time thing never explained the alleged, occasional interactions inside our time. Like many others, I've tried my hand at threads on both of these topics: Is God "Outside of Time"? and Would foreknowledge contradict free will?
Paraprakrti
Custom User
If that is true, then we don't have free will.
camanintx
Well-Known Member
What if time is just an artificial construct of the human intellect and "now" is all that really exists? The past would simply be a memory and the future would only be probability.
kadzbiz
..........................
Scott C.
Just one guy
In what way does how we measure time define what time is?
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
Hi!
Us peanuts think God already knew he would change his mind, but we're just peanuts. Jonah got sooo mad at God for sparing Nineveh! But, afterall, God sent him there to warn them so they might repent and be spared. Jonah had a bit of a hard head, harder than a peanut shell!
Cheers!
P.S. Jonah was not a false prophet, God WAS gonna destroy Nineveh if they did not repent.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
Good post for the most part, I think God knows all possibilities and hopes for the best, He knows how we will react to certain things based on countless eons he spent raising us and teaching us before we came here. God is intellignece, just as the best chess player would know all the possible moves, so does he, and we do not even slightly compare in intelligence to him because he is all knowing and has been around for alot longer than we have.
When it is stated that he "knows the future" he knows all of the countless possibilities of the future and can predict the outcome with amazing accuracy. but sometimes things don't go the way he hopes for his children because of thier free-will. We don't suprise him, because he knew each possible outcome, but i'm sure we either make him happy or make him disappointed.
McBell
Unbound
The next question would be:
Does God know which path will be chosen?
If God is all knowing, he would have to.
If God does not know which path will be chosen, then he is not all knowing.
If God does know which path, what is the point in all of this?
madhatter85
Transhumanist
I did answer the question, God is intelligence. he is more far more intelligent than anyone on this earth. he jsut knows all the possibilities and plans ahead for them.