How does ISKCON differ from Mainstream Hinduism?

[Vinayaka]

I am no specialist in Hindu philosophy but I'm not impressed with the philosophy taught by ISKCON. Yes, Achintya Bheda Abheda is a Hindu philosophy but in practice, Krishna is the Only Big God and you're the small soul and effectively, the emphasis on that not so far away from an Abrahamitic concept of God and soul.

I attend ISKCON Sunday feasts because I think "flawed" krishna-katha is still better than no krishna-katha. However, most of the time they don't speak about philosophy but get tangled in the stories of Hinduism, considering them as factual events that actually happened. In my eyes, this is also not so far away from the Christian concepts I'm familiar with. Christians in general have to believe in and confess (at least) the core stories of the Bible as actual events.

Many Indians in the ISKCON temples of the west have the exact same attitude, especially when there are no other temples to go to. That's why the ISKCON temple demographic has changed dramatically. When driving across the country, I'll stop at one maybe.

 

[DeviChaaya]

I am no specialist in Hindu philosophy but I'm not impressed with the philosophy taught by ISKCON. Yes, Achintya Bheda Abheda is a Hindu philosophy but in practice, Krishna is the Only Big God and you're the small soul and effectively, the emphasis on that not so far away from an Abrahamitic concept of God and soul.

I attend ISKCON Sunday feasts because I think "flawed" krishna-katha is still better than no krishna-katha. However, most of the time they don't speak about philosophy but get tangled in the stories of Hinduism, considering them as factual events that actually happened. In my eyes, this is also not so far away from the Christian concepts I'm familiar with. Christians in general have to believe in and confess (at least) the core stories of the Bible as actual events.

I used to attend the ISKCON temple nearby every Sunday but I have since... become lazy. I do not even visit Ma's temple often anymore. I need to redevelop that bhakti, I think. But I agree with you, flawed service is better than none. My only true problem, to be honest, with the Sunday meals is that they are... not spectacular. My local ISKCON temple tends to keep to the same recipes... I prefer the prasadam at Ma's temple.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My only true problem, to be honest, with the Sunday meals is that they are... not spectacular. My local ISKCON temple tends to keep to the same recipes... I prefer the prasadam at Ma's temple.

I think there also perhaps you will have the same problem. We went to a Hare-Krishna temple in Ahmedabad. They have 'Khichri' (Risotto) as 'prasada'. And we partook it joyfully and reverently. Just a wee bit of 'prasada' is sufficient. Give me just one out of the whole plate - Bundi (the word means raindrop). It is a blessing from God. Prasada is not meal. If a meal is provided at the temple and if we have to pay for it, that is OK. That happens at the Hare-Krishna temple in Juhu, Mumbai.

Bundi, meals at Hare-Krishna temple in Juhu, Mumbai

 

[DeviChaaya]

I think there also perhaps you will have the same problem. We went to a Hare-Krishna temple in Ahmedabad. They have 'Khichri' (Risotto) as 'prasada'. And we partook it joyfully and reverently. Just a wee bit of 'prasada' is sufficient. Give me just one out of the whole plate - Bundi (the word means raindrop). It is a blessing from God. Prasada is not meal. If a meal is provided at the temple and if we have to pay for it, that is OK. That happens at the Hare-Krishna temple in Juhu, Mumbai.

Bundi, meals at Hare-Krishna temple in Juhu, Mumbai
View attachment 21092

All food from my local ISKCON temple is prasada; everything is offered to Krishna and then to the devotees. This temple runs a 'food for life' program and serves three meals a day every day of the year. The meals are 100% free to those attending. It is just... quite bland and too much ghee is used.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Take some salt, pepper and chillies with you the next time you go there. Simple problem, simple answer.

 

[ronki23]

Could someone translate this ? What's he saying ?

@Aupmanyav

 

[ajay0]

ISKCON is supposed to be Gaudiya Vaishnavism so how does it differ from other schools of Hinduism? To me they're like the embarrassing sibling in the Hindu family

Iskcon is a lot into charity programmes like the Akshaya patra, which feeds a lot of school children free of cost. This encourages many poverty stricken families to send children to schools rather than working in their fields or other labor work. I have visited one of their facilities in this regard.

Food For Life Global, a non-profit vegan food relief organization rooted in Iskcon, has provided meals similarly in over 110 countries, especially during times of natural disasters or war.

Food for Life Global - Wikipedia

The Arya Samaj and Ramakrishna Mission are also known for their charity activities in India and around the world.

 

[Vinayaka]

Iskcon is a lot into charity programmes like the Akshaya patra, which feeds a lot of school children free of cost. This encourages many poverty stricken families to send children to schools rather than working in their fields or other labor work. I have visited one of their facilities in this regard.

Food For Life Global, a non-profit vegan food relief organization has provided meals similarly in over 110 countries, especially during times of natural disasters or war.

Food for Life Global - Wikipedia

The Arya Samaj and Ramakrishna Mission are also known for their charity activities in India and around the world.

Many Hindu institutions are incredibly charitable. So are the Sikhs, especially regarding food. Larger Gurudwaras provide langar for about 16 hours every day. In my city, when Covid hit, the langar program was forced to stop, but a couple of Sikh owned restaurants stepped up to the plate and provided 'free' food as takeaway from their restaurants.

 

[Martin]

Advaita Vedanta is pretty common, and traditional, but I wouldn't call it mainstream. To me, there is no such thing as mainstream Hinduism. I don't think it's accurate to have one school in 10 000 schools considered the mainstream one.

Is Advaita more popular in the west?
Advaita seems to include a lot of less traditional, neo-Advaita strands.

 

[Vinayaka]

Is Advaita more popular in the west?
Advaita seems to include a lot of less traditional, neo-Advaita strands.

As a school of philosophy, I think so. But who knows? Chinmaya Mission, and Arsha Vidya Gurukkulam are a couple of examples. For sure in included neo-Advaita, where it's little more than an intellectual statement.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Could someone translate this ? What's he saying ?
@Aupmanyav

Nothing much, intersectoral rivalry. Dwarika Shankaracharya is orthodox and the orthodox do not like the new. Even I am not a ISKCONite, I too am orthodox. I do not like all this singing and dancing. And I am particularly against young people taking up Sanyasa. If every one takes sanyasa, how would the world function? Such people are not fulfilling their 'dharma'.

His peeve is that the ISKCON temples are getting a lot of devotees and donations. But if that floats their boat, I am not against it. Achintya Bhedabheda of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is a part of Vedanta philosophies. After all, Krishna bhakti is important in the other sects of Vedanta too (Dvaita of Sri Madhvacharya, Dvaitadvaita of Sri Nimbarkacharya or Purnadvaita of Sri Vallabhacharya).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, ISKCON is an extremely group-oriented faith. Prabhupada says that somebody who worships the deity in the temple but doesn't obey the devotees is a "third-class devotee". And Gaudiya Vaishnavas make polemical statements about people who leave the group to chant solitarily.

We care a zilch about what Prabhupada or his followers say. Krishna is first-class. How does it matter if we are third-class? We have our own relationship with Krishna.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Sirona said: ↑
Well, ISKCON is an extremely group-oriented faith. Prabhupada says that somebody who worships the deity in the temple but doesn't obey the devotees is a "third-class devotee". And Gaudiya Vaishnavas make polemical statements about people who leave the group to chant solitarily.

Krishna is first-class. How does it matter if we are third-class? We have our own relationship with Krishna.

exactly!
I do care about PrabhupAd as my shikshA guru as I know his blessings are with me, but he is OK that I do not belong to his sampraday, because he knows KRshNa is mine and I am His.

Anyhow, when we are not in their sampraday and parampara, how can we be graded by them as Nth class devotee? It is not applicable. N/A. All that stuff is applicable when you are in their paramparA (lineage) ONLY. See my reasoning below.

Their focus is more on relationship with devotees than on your relationship with KRshNa svayam and that is not suitable for me. since nothing and no one can come between Bhakta and BhagvAn!

However, I can probably throw some light on where that logic comes from.

BG 11.53,54,55 -- where KRshNa says you become eligible to merge with Bramh (Him) when you love all creatures equally etc.

Now a KRshNa devotee can fulfill BG 11.55 by their own means that KRshNa gives them, not necessarily thru' this sampradAy.
For those who are in their parampara they have set that framework and rules.

BG 11.55
mat-karma-krin mat-paramo mad-bhaktah sanga-varjitah
nirvairah sarva-bhuteshu yah sa mam eti pandava ||
Those who perform all their duties for My sake, who depend upon Me and are devoted to Me, who are free from attachment, and are without malice toward all beings, such devotees certainly come to Me.

This is in context of the shlokas before it (fear not Arjun, this virat rupa and chaturbhuj rupa is not seen by austerities... but by devotion alone):

BG 11.54
bhaktyā tv ananyayā śhakya aham evaṁ-vidho ’rjuna |
jñātuṁ draṣhṭuṁ cha tattvena praveṣhṭuṁ cha parantapa ||
O Arjun, by unalloyed devotion alone can I be known as I am, standing before you. Thereby, O vanquisher of evil/foes, on receiving My divine vision, one can enter into union with Me.


So their reasoning COULD BE that people who do not interact with their devotee lineage and practice VaishNav AchAr (etiquette) cannot attain BG 11.55 but like you, I disagree.

 

[Aupmanyav]

However, I can probably throw some light on where that logic comes from.

Advaitists see it this way - If Krishna is Brahman, then I am no other than him. And no other is other than Krishna. You too are but Krishna. Even a dog is Krishna.
That is illustrated by the story of the Sanyasi who called after the dog who ran away with his bread. The Sanyasi said, "O Gopala, don't run away with the bread. I have not yet applied butter on it."

 

[ameyAtmA]

Yes, that was NAmdev. He ran after the dog who stole his bhAkri with the pot of ghee "VitthalA! Prabhu! At least have ghee with the dry bhAkri!"
*bhAkri is flat bread made with ground millet (bajra, jawar)

 

[Viraja]

Acharya Srila Prabhupad is a great sant. Imagine the magnitude of work he has done after age 70 in a foreign land with no money, esp. in a land like America where in mid-60's, Krishna was practically unknown!

Surely, the great acharya must have meant that, just as it is emphasized in every sampradaya (including Srivaishnavism), that serving the devotees of the lord is of prime importance and it comes 'even before' serving the lord. 'Daas to the Daas' is a very famous bhava to serve to the lord and I can understand why acharya emphasized it. It cultivates many good virtues and strengthens one's faith in the lord himself.

Even in Srivaishnava sampradaya, one is emphasized to stay in Melkote, for the entire lifespan if one can, just to get an opportunity to serve the devotees, as this factor is of prime importance in bhakti.

ISKCON is not all about singing and dancing. Majority of ISKCONites that I know of, taking to Acharya Prabhupada's advice and routinely recite 16 rounds of mahamantra japa each day, that is about 2 - 2 1/2 hrs of japa each single day!

 

[Aupmanyav]

ISKCON is not all about singing and dancing. Majority of ISKCONites that I know of, taking to Acharya Prabhupada's advice and routinely recite 16 rounds of mahamantra japa each day, that is about 2 - 2 1/2 hrs of japa each single day!

Good luck to them. I would not advice that for any one.

 

[Viraja]

No doubt!



Correct. It is obviously why he said that, and so did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramanuja, but here is the problem. The Guru paves the way for the ideal situation in context of their then present disciples but after them it is no longer ideal.
Frankly, a crowd of devotees in a temple is not necessarily 100% sadhu sanga or Sat sanga. For that matter, sanga with KRshNa is sat sang! Other sampradayas also have sadhu sanga and sat sanga and where there are a lot of sAdhaks there are bound to be issues.

We cannot catch statements and write them in bronze.
You cannot take a statement and apply it to all situations and to all people at once. "Select All" and "check the box"
That is what happened with Christianity - they took Jesus' statements that he made to his disciples present there, and put them in bronze and said "Select All" "check"

Not everyone can thrive in a standardized environment and the work-in-progress devotees are not all saints. They are just as human as humans in the outer world.
Further, each jiva has a history of previous lives and spiritual journey and each is at a different point.

We just cannot apply rules to everyone in bulk. Period. Everyone is different. That environment and setup is a distraction to some, and may do wonders for another, some others may not need it while some others may find it N/A.

Do you remember how happy I was when you told us you had found your home? I am happy that it worked for you.

praNAm

Just as your side story and its adherents have your rights to your claims, I see that Srila Prabhupada's side also has advantages and thus a right to their claims.

Besides that, I am losing context of what are the original comments passed in this thread.

But, that said, can you pinpoint an "ideal sampradaya" or the one that you are following, and I will come back with a said 'checklist' of all it lacks.

 

[Viraja]

Good luck o them. I would not advice that for any one.

ISKCON is for serious spiritualists. Surely they don't need advice from atheists.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Just as your side story and its adherents have your rights to your claims, I see that Srila Prabhupada's side also has advantages and thus a right to their claims.

I am on no one's side. I am just saying what works for one may not work for another. By the way I have a great reverence for Shrila PrabhupAd, but interestingly, he understands my point, many of his followers do not. (I am not talking about you Virajaji, you are wonderful, I mean it).

But, that said, can you pinpoint an "ideal sampradaya" or the one that you are following, and I will come back with a said 'checklist' of all it lacks.

This wasn't about anything lacking in a sampraday at all - at least my post wasn't. If others are criticizing that was not my point.

We were speaking of the differences in various KRshNa devotees and just saying that there can actually be a gulf of a difference.
A lot of people do not even think and presume that if you are a devotee of KRshNa you must belong to ISKCON. Why? Can't there be "just" devotees of KRshNa ? The other Hindu VaishNav sampradayas understand this.
People wonder and keep asking why a devotee of KRshNa does not go to ISKCON. "If you like KRshNa so much why don't you join ISKCON?"
Why does such a question even arise?
As if the 2 words are synonymous.