How does Judaism contrast with Christianity regarding prophesy of 30 pieces of silver?

[susanblange]

Ahhh! There you are! No discussion of scripture is complete until you've weighed in. How are you doing?
So, do you remember Adam's family name?

Hi Terry! I think Adam's last name was Ribdick, but I'm not sure. The 3 of them were in my Public Speaking class at ODU where I went public at the beginning of my calling. The 2 brothers names were Matthew and Luke, but I don't know their last names either. There is also a Mark (Christman) and a John (Gilley) who were friends of mine.

 

[susanblange]

Did you know them? If so, and you were close, I'm sorry for your loss.

Their deaths were part of the prophecy. Zechariah 11:8. I did forgive them because they carried out the judgment I pronounced by killing themselves. Psalms 7:4.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It's alright that the NT uses the phrase "thirty pieces of silver", but who says that has anything to do with Jeremiah's story?

Right

 

[dybmh]

Ugat Shmarim

Is it always parve in Israel? Ugat Shmarim?

 

[Harel13]

Is it always parve in Israel? Ugat Shmarim?

Yeah, I think so.

 

[Tumah]

@Tumah,

Green's Babkah... looks like it maybe Pas Yisroel.... are you feeling tempted?

I grew up on it. Although then they used to make it a kokosh cake. Now it looks like they only make babka.

 

[Tumah]

@Tumah you in? Free cake for good wit. That's your field.

If someone checked the lungs first and it came out glatt, then I'll definitely eat that cake!

 

[Harel13]

If someone checked the lungs first and it came out glatt, then I';; definitely eat that cake!

Lung-cake, now there's an idea...

 

[wizanda]

It's alright that the NT uses the phrase "thirty pieces of silver", but who says that has anything to do with Jeremiah's story?

Zechariah 11:3 cites Jeremiah 25:36 'Wailing of the Shepherds', and people argue about the wrong chapter.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

Zechariah 11:3 cites Jeremiah 25:36 'Wailing of the Shepherds', and people argue about the wrong chapter.

In my opinion.

But the Jesussianic prophecy with Judah Iscariot doesn't feature shepherds, does it?

 

[wizanda]

But the Jesussianic prophecy with Judah Iscariot doesn't feature shepherds, does it?

The 3 Foolish Shepherds were the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Babylonian-Levites (Lawyers), Yeshua challenges all three in the Synoptic Gospels.

The Idolatrous Shepherd at the end of Zechariah 11:15-17 is Rabbinic Judaism, created from these three, that were over the Flock who left the land.

Look at it like this: God sends a Messiah who is an Elohim a Divine Being, the Sanhedrin refuse him Kingship, and instead slaughter him like an animal...

They've then tried to manipulate the whole thing, twisting the story, and making it look like God did it.

In Ezekiel 34 at the coming of the real Messiah, these Foolish Shepherds are removed, and a true Theocracy is replaced, restoring the Spiritual Land of Israel, as the world restores their Spiritual King.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

Lawyers

Huh?

 

[wizanda]

Huh?

The word used in the New Testament by Yeshua is Lawyers (G3544 - nomikos) for Babylonian Levites...

These have become a sect since Babylon; creating their own Oral Traditions - Which then became the Rabbi, who then worship their own understandings; instead of what the Tanakh instructed.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

Lawyers (G3544 - nomikos) for Babylonian Levites.

Oh, is that why Jews become lawyers?

 

[wizanda]

Oh, is that why Jews become lawyers?

Possibly because they spend so long trying to understand the contradictions in Babylonian thinking.

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

The 3 Foolish Shepherds were the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Babylonian-Levites (Lawyers), Yeshua challenges all three in the Synoptic Gospels.

The Idolatrous Shepherd at the end of Zechariah 11:15-17 is Rabbinic Judaism, created from these three, that were over the Flock who left the land.

Look at it like this: God sends a Messiah who is an Elohim a Divine Being, the Sanhedrin refuse him Kingship, and instead slaughter him like an animal...

They've then tried to manipulate the whole thing, twisting the story, and making it look like God did it.

In Ezekiel 34 at the coming of the real Messiah, these Foolish Shepherds are removed, and a true Theocracy is replaced, restoring the Spiritual Land of Israel, as the world restores their Spiritual King.

Many times in recent threads you have asked my advice for increasing the credibility of your posts. I want to help, but I don't want to be rude.

Here's what I think you actually meant to say, but, a few words were left out. I'm putting my understanding of what you said in a spoiler. Because it's starting to feel like it's in poor taste to repeatedly offer the same advice. But maybe more examples are needed?

Spoiler: Is this what you meant to say?

The 3 Foolish Shepherds were remind me/us of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Babylonian-Levites ( who are described in the New Testament as Lawyers ,G3544 - nomikos), Yeshua challenges all three in the Synoptic Gospels.

The Idolatrous Shepherd at the end of Zechariah 11:15-17 is seems idolatrous based on the context and reminds me/us of Rabbinic Judaism, created from these three ( Pharisees, Sadduccess, and Levites ), that were over the Flock who left the land.

Look at it like this According to the New Testament when applied in conjunction with other spiritual/religious belief systems: God sends a Messiah who is an Elohim a Divine Being, the Sanhedrin refuse him Kingship, and instead slaughter him like an animal...

They've In light of this, I/we think it makes sense that the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Babylonian-Levites then tried to manipulate the whole thing, twisting the story, and making it look like God Yeshua did it.

Many people ( including myself/selves ) understand that In Ezekiel 34 is metaphorically and contextually describing at the coming of the real Messiah, these Foolish Shepherds ( Rabbinic Judaism ) are removed, and a true Theocracy is replaced, restoring the Spiritual Land of Israel, as the world restores their Spiritual King.

OK.

I hope you aren't offended by what I did up there. But I am really, really, just following your directions and answering your question as seen below:

Help me understand it; what do I need to get this chain of narration across at a better level...

We've had multiple conversations lately... and essentially, I'm sorry, but I end up having the same problem in each one of the "maths". Data is missing from each proof, and the links between each element of the proof are not as strong as they appear on examination. The result is , as I said before, bait and switch.

If you say: "The Idolatrous Shepherd at the end of Zechariah 11:15-17 is Rabbinic Judaism, created from these three, that were over the Flock who left the land." and then I go and look up those verses, which I did, it is very hard to see anything that is remotely related to "Rabbinic Judaism". In order to understand what you are saying. ( Note this is not about agreeing with you, it is simply about understanding **what** you are saying ), I need to pretend that I'm you/y'all, pretend that I believe in Yeshua, and adopt your opinion of Rabbinic Judaism. That's what is needed in order for me to literally understand the words: "The Idolatrous Shepherd at the end of Zechariah 11:15-17 is Rabbinic Judaism".

Now please understand, in the example above, I'm taking the position of someone who is friendly to you/y'all and your beliefs. But what if I'm neutral, ignorant, and a little under-intelligent? Not blind. Not illogical. Just simple. OK? Now it's a completely different story. Coming from the perspective of a Simple Child, who knows so little that they barely know what to ask, if I read the sentence: "The Idolatrous Shepherd at the end of Zechariah 11:15-17 is Rabbinic Judaism, created from these three, that were over the Flock who left the land." I am expecting to go to the verses and read the word "Rabbi" somewhere in there. But its missing. And then I look for Idolatry in those verse, and I can't find it either. And I don't see anything about "these three" ( the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Babylonian-Levites ), not mention, I'm a simple child, I don't know who those people are. They aren't in Zecharia...

Do you see what I mean.

If I'm a simple child reading your words, it is a bait and switch. I'm expecting to see Rabbis and idolatry in Zecharia 11, but it's not there. It's almost like being lied to. Or being sold snake-oil by a charlatan.

But your not selling snake-oil, you're just not saying what you mean. That's what I think at least. If I didn't know you better, I would start to feel like you were exaggerating your position and leaving out qualifiers in order to give the writing the appearance of authority. But I don't think that's what happening. I just think it's an over sight and an accidental omission because you're super smart. And it's difficult to dumb-down the "maths" for people who don't already know what you're talking about.

 

[wizanda]

I hope you aren't offended by what I did up there.

I appreciate you trying to rectify with intelligence, the other day you taught me something really profound; fair enough what you did above was a mess, yet it is understandable as you're missing points, and running ahead (H4122).

Learn 'Selah' (H5542), which to me means "Sit, pause reflect"... Like in a musical note with a long reverb, and delay... .. .. .. . . .

Ask questions: before assume there are necessities missing; always studying more, not assume less.

Esword on a KJV+ is a little complex; yet there are keyword referencings weaving the whole thing together as a tapestry.

We've had multiple conversations lately... and essentially, I'm sorry, but I end up having the same problem in each one of the "maths". Data is missing from each proof, and the links between each element of the proof are not as strong as they appear on examination. The result is , as I said before, bait and switch.

Sorry it is me being lazy with listing everything; I'm not academically intelligent, I'm a musician, and artist, who struggles with religiously minded grammar, and am sharing for humanities sake.

pretend that I believe in Yeshua,

We don't need to in this context, and people inserting Yeshua into the texts messes up exegetically looking at it.

We can understand it from the Tanakh alone:

Zechariah 11 cites aspects of the Curse being placed, eating flesh Zechariah 11:9, Deuteronomy 28:53-55.

Zechariah 11:1-2 'burning' of the 'cedars' is seen as prophetic of the destruction of the temple being built (Timeline).

Often the very words being spoken are all 'keywords', we word search, and the scriptures open up.

The 'Timeline' as already stating previously in the thread is correlated by Jeremiah 25 being 70 years in Babylon the same as Daniel 9 cites.

The Messiah comes at the end of both chapters Jeremiah 25:29-38, and Daniel 9:26-27 before the 2nd Temple Destruction, where then the Daily Sacrifice is removed.

Since we know then that Zechariah 11 is specifically the Messiah coming before the 2nd Temple Destruction by history, and the context of Jeremiah 25, and Daniel 9.

Where the Diaspora happens because the Covenant of Abraham (Zechariah 11:10), and the Covenant at Sinai (Zechariah 11:14) were both nullified when the Leaders of the people paid for their divorce, with 30 pieces of silver for the price of our Messiah - which is the price of a slave.

The wording in Zechariah 11:15-17 'feeding themselves the fat' is also found in Ezekiel 34, which shows that from the time after the Diaspora our people have been blinded (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29), where these Blinded Shepherds have fed themselves.

If I'm a simple child reading your words

I just think it's an over sight and an accidental omission because you're super smart. And it's difficult to dumb-down the "maths" for people who don't already know what you're talking about.

As a child looks in pure delight, it takes time to understand; be patient, ask more questions, and see more answers in the texts, before assuming it isn't there.

The maths is complex, yet it becomes fun to learn, when we get used to word searching ideas properly in the Tanakh+.

Sorry, when not always being straight forward in every post, with every single detail, to justify all the equations.

In my opinion.