How does one come to believe in a "revealed faith"

[The Voice of Reason]

What mechanism allows a person to believe so strongly in a revealed faith, that they would come to disregard logic, reasoning and science? It seems to me that some people are raised by parents that believe in a given faith (i.e. Christianity, Islam, etc.) and these individuals never truly question the very nature of what they have been taught. No one seems to have a problem throwing off the yoke of Santa Claus, yet only some people are able to get past the teachings of an organized religion - and arrive at whatever they logically discover (i.e. agnosticism, atheism, deism, etc.). I realize that some will say that they examined their belief system critically, but I can't bring myself to agree. In my mind, they only looked superficially to ask tough questions or to search for logical answers. I would really like to get some feedback on this.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Anyone got some input?

 

[Gunnard]

When a person is mentally matured enough to grasp the of concept infinity and that they'll die and be dead forever, that is when they choose oblivion or "paradise", whether they know it or not. When a child is indoctrinated from birth the choice comes easy to them of course and when ever presented with the idea of oblivion it makes them sick and dizzy.

So all you christians out there in stay away from any kind of critical thinking of that sort and you'll feel right as rain and bright like sunshine. :goodjob:

 

[Master Vigil]

but also, what is paradise? Can heaven exist differently for each individual? If so, than no two people can be in the same heaven. That would be pretty lonely for most people. Therefore, maybe heaven isn't paradise, but just the complete oneness with the Tao. No thoughts, desires, wants, needs, no emotions, no self, just energy. I like that more than heaven. And its much more logical.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Master Vigil,

Funny thing - I was raised a Southern Baptist, but by my mid-teens I had questioned so many of the tenets that Christianity is based on that I could no longer buy into it. In my search for Truth, God, etc. I came across Taoism. I used to keep a very nice edition of I Ching on my headboard, and I read it every night. For me, Taoism is not a religion at all, but rather a philosophy of passivity. I don't completely follow Taoism (I'm not sure anyone born outside of China can), but what I can digest is a very palatable view of the world for me.

 

[Christ Michael]

but also, what is paradise? Can heaven exist differently for each individual? If so, than no two people can be in the same heaven. That would be pretty lonely for most people. Therefore, maybe heaven isn't paradise, but just the complete oneness with the Tao. No thoughts, desires, wants, needs, no emotions, no self, just energy. I like that more than heaven. And its much more logical.

Unless there is a PERSONALITY that can think, desire, want, need etc, THERE IS NO SELF-AWERENESS, ergo you are nothing but a vegetable !!
Electricity is energy but it doesn't have a PERSONALITY, therefore it is not conscious !!!!



Cheers

 

[KBC1963]

No one seems to have a problem throwing off the yoke of Santa Claus

That is an interesting thought but I wonder just how far the yoke went? most people believe that its celebrates CHRIST once they get rid of the silly clause idea and a huge part of america's economy is run off of that belief.
I think it comes down more to a state of being accepted for most people, they simply follow what others do just to be accepted and that doesnt require an in depth understanding of what they do.
There are however many that are called of GOD and for them there seems to be a burning desire to find the truth and as they go through life it seems to be a constant draw for them to seek these pearls of wisdom where ever they may be and for the dedicated few they do indeed find the truth.

 

[Master Vigil]

It is true, I follow the philosophy of Taoism, not the religion. The I Ching follows the religion a little more than the Tao Te Ching or Chuang Tzu. I like those books more.

"Unless there is a PERSONALITY that can think, desire, want, need etc, THERE IS NO SELF-AWERENESS, ergo you are nothing but a vegetable !!
Electricity is energy but it doesn't have a PERSONALITY, therefore it is not conscious !!!!"

So are you saying there is no self awareness for a personality that can think, desire, want, need etc...? Or are you saying that a personality that can do all those without a self awareness is a vegetable? I will first comment on the first: THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!! Second: I find that a person without those things, after they die, becomes what they were before physicalities, and since physicalities do not allow a soul to know the Tao, once one dies, those physicalities disappear and one is finally at peace.

 

[Ceridwen018]

"Unless there is a PERSONALITY that can think, desire, want, need etc, THERE IS NO SELF-AWERENESS, ergo you are nothing but a vegetable !!
Electricity is energy but it doesn't have a PERSONALITY, therefore it is not conscious !!!!"

I'm gonna have to back up Master Vigil on this one. What does any of that have to do with...well, anything, really. Could you explain your point?

 

[Sunstone]

“What mechanism allows a person to believe so strongly in a revealed faith, that they would come to disregard logic, reasoning and science? It seems to me that some people are raised by parents that believe in a given faith (i.e. Christianity, Islam, etc.) and these individuals never truly question the very nature of what they have been taught. No one seems to have a problem throwing off the yoke of Santa Claus, yet only some people are able to get past the teachings of an organized religion - and arrive at whatever they logically discover (i.e. agnosticism, atheism, deism, etc.). I realize that some will say that they examined their belief system critically, but I can't bring myself to agree. In my mind, they only looked superficially to ask tough questions or to search for logical answers. I would really like to get some feedback on this.” – Voice of Reason

I’ve thought about the same problem, VOR. Perplexing, isn’t it? Sometimes I’ve felt it’s as if the more you think about it, the more it becomes a mystery.

Here’s an idea for you. Perhaps it’s a start. Let me know what you think of it: People can become sentimentally attached to beliefs in precisely the same sense that they can become sentimentally attached to a material object, such as a keepsake, a favorite chair, a pet, etc. In that case, there is a sense in which they identify with the object, as if it were a part of them as a person.

Perhaps to clarify: Have you ever had the experience of criticizing a belief to someone and that person takes your criticism personally – takes it as if you were criticizing them, rather than merely criticizing the belief? That’s an indication that the person is attached to that belief.

When someone becomes attached to a belief, it is very difficult – even emotionally painful – for that person to distance themselves from it, to step back from it and evaluate their belief in light of logic, reason and science.

The subject of attachment is dealt with extensively in some Eastern religions, such as Buddhism and Hinduism. I seem to recall that Buddhism identifies it as a cause of suffering, while Hinduism notes that it causes illusion, but “don’t quote me” on either point.

I would like to offer a further reflection on this. It seems obvious to me that many preachers and religious leaders actively encourage their followers to become attached to the beliefs they are promulgating. If the Eastern religions are correct in identifying attachment as a source of illusion and suffering, then the practice of those preachers and religious leaders is ultimately detrimental to the happiness of their followers.

Lastly, please contrast the notion that happiness lies in becoming attached to a religion by faith with this quote attributed to the Buddha:

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe simply because it has been handed down for many generations...Do not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures...Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all. Then accept it and live up to it.” — The Buddha, from the Kalama Sutta

Thank you for your interest in this post.

Sunstone

 

[Yerda]

In regards to the initial question about revealed religion I think the thing that irritates me most is the unreasonable faith. I could not correctly argue the existence of a God one way or the other so I choose disregard the question entirely. It seems irrelevant. But I would like to know why, in order to achieve salvation, I'm expected to take not the word of God, but the word of some long dead man. History has been plagued by nutters. Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad fit the profile perfectly (they heard voices, saw visions etc).

The revealed faiths are likely to be the single largest cause of suffering ever. They are brutal towards non-believers (although why should the believers care), they are abhorrent towards women (who, by the way make up half of our species) and they run in direct contrast with with science, progress, and democracy. These are things intended to make our life's better and more equal.

Re-stating what I said earlier, the question of whether there is a God seems irrelevant to me. Judging by the state of the religions upheld in this God's honour the feeling must be mutual.

 

[Ceridwen018]

truthseekingsoul, I agree!!

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Sunstone and truthseekingsoul,

I think that we have come to the very crux of what it is that separates Agnostics and Atheists from Theists and Deists:
The idea that if I love, worship, and obey my God(s), I can maim, kill, persecute, harass, ignore, subjugate, etc., and feel that I am morally superior in doing so. Alas, in some cases (too often), the believer in a revealed faith even makes the mental leap of faith that they are, in fact, "tasked to do these things" in the name of their God(s). This is how women are kept in subjugation in many Middle Eastern cultures, how the Spanish Inquisition was justified, the Crusades were carried out, and how a few religious fanatics find validation in killing doctors at abortion clinics.

The converse does not seem to be true - personally, I do not know of even one instance where a group of Atheists or Agnostics decided to annex some land, subjugate a population, or anything of the sort, all in the name of Atheism or Agnosticism.

Who knows, maybe some of the Theists or Deists can enlighten me.