How does religion influence your morality?

[Thief]

You think you know God's mind and you speak for him? That's one of the more unusually large claims I've heard in my time here.



As is your right. I have no issue with that.



I'm not sure who you are suggesting I align with, or even if it's my alignment you are talking about, so I'm just gonna let that slide.



You still seemed completely locked into this binary concept you have of God.

As in He AND me.......?.......binary?

Seems to me, having a sense of self......and believing in Something Greater...
there would be ay least the two of us!

Of course there are 7billion other possibilities.
If we do cross over (makes sense to me) then Someone needs to be in charge.

And you care not the opportunity to be closer to the Powers the BE?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Staggered then you are.

I'm not real big on Pascal's wager.....but....
I believe in Something Greater than myself.

Alignment would then be prudent.

(if there is life after death and no One in charge.....you stand up into chaos......good luck)

You're not big on Pascal's Wager? But (on RF, at least) you've been basically a Pascal's Wager one-trick pony.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

You're not big on Pascal's Wager? But (on RF, at least) you've been basically a Pascal's Wager one-trick pony.

Exactly. Although I believe in deity, I do not use Pascal's Wager to justify my belief in it. My belief in deity comes from my own ability to reason, and not through faith. To me, the problem with Pascal's Wager is that if you believe in God just to be on the "safe side," then could that really be considered "faith?" Wouldn't a religionist god be rather upset if your "faith" in him was based merely on "just in case," rather than an actual genuine belief in his existence?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Exactly. Although I believe in deity, I do not use Pascal's Wager to justify my belief in it. My belief in deity comes from my own ability to reason, and not through faith. To me, the problem with Pascal's Wager is that if you believe in God just to be on the "safe side," then could that really be considered "faith?" Wouldn't a religionist god be rather upset if your "faith" in him was based merely on "just in case," rather than an actual genuine belief in his existence?

The thing about a hypothetical being with no basis in evidence (e.g. the God of Pascal's Wager) is that nothing is stopping you from making whatever assumptions about him that you want. Maybe he gets upset at people not worshipping him; maybe he gets upset at people worshipping him "just in case"; maybe he gets upset when you wear green pants or play the piano on a Tuesday. Without any evidence, there's nothing to use to say which is more likely than the others.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I've come to think of RF members as family that I can be open with. I'll say things and I'll sound a little weird here.

If I were not influenced by religion, I swear, I could (some times would) have raped, stole, lied all the time, etc.

I've come across so many defenseless inviting-looking women at my peak desire, I'm entrusted with big amounts of easily spending money where I work (petty cash), I've had so many situations I could have gotten of with simple lies, but I didn't take those chances. Very strong urges hit me then and the coast was perfectly clear and safe, but I refused to do it as soon as I remembered my religious education.

I can't explain it further than I did a few posts ago, and even that might have been inaccurate, but this is the actual result I'm having.

Now, that might not apply with everyone, but think about it, if it worked with me, it ought to work with others. Isn't that a good thing? How many/much defenseless women, money and truths have been saved just because of the influence of religion!

Religion made a man that would never touch a women's dignity/honor, abuse a trust, put others in trouble in his place with a lie, etc. Religion made me who I am.

Just my thoughts. Please forgive me for being rude.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As in He AND me.......?.......binary?

No...I meant that the way you post represents a choice between Yes there is a God, or No, there isn't, with the two of us standing on opposite sides of the choice.

But it's not a binary choice. There are a huge number of variations different people believe in. It's a fundamental flaw with Pascal's Wager.

If we do cross over (makes sense to me) then Someone needs to be in charge.

Really? If we do cross over, I would suggest all bets are off. Who knows what we'd find?

And you care not the opportunity to be closer to the Powers the BE?

You surmising that my belief in them is a fundamental deal breaker in whether I get to know the Powers that Be is another assumption you're making. You're welcome to make these assumptions (honestly) but I fail to understand your need to project them.

 

[Thief]

No...I meant that the way you post represents a choice between Yes there is a God, or No, there isn't, with the two of us standing on opposite sides of the choice.

But it's not a binary choice. There are a huge number of variations different people believe in. It's a fundamental flaw with Pascal's Wager.



Really? If we do cross over, I would suggest all bets are off. Who knows what we'd find?



You surmising that my belief in them is a fundamental deal breaker in whether I get to know the Powers that Be is another assumption you're making. You're welcome to make these assumptions (honestly) but I fail to understand your need to project them.

Well gee....what's so hard about it?

If you cross over, then a good chance there is.....many others will too.

There is hierarchy is this world.....likely to be some in the next.

The Higher powers having creation in hand....might be difficult to deal with.
See Job.

 

[Thief]

You're not big on Pascal's Wager? But (on RF, at least) you've been basically a Pascal's Wager one-trick pony.

One trick?....do you actually follow what I do here?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

One trick?....do you actually follow what I do here?

Sorry - two tricks: Pascal's Wager and the argument from ignorance.

 

[Thief]

The thing about a hypothetical being with no basis in evidence (e.g. the God of Pascal's Wager) is that nothing is stopping you from making whatever assumptions about him that you want. Maybe he gets upset at people not worshipping him; maybe he gets upset at people worshipping him "just in case"; maybe he gets upset when you wear green pants or play the piano on a Tuesday. Without any evidence, there's nothing to use to say which is more likely than the others.

I would work from one assumption at a time....(more than one trick to this)

Spirit first?...or substance?
I assume (and I think it's fair to do so)....Spirit first.

A creation is a reflection of it's Creator.
Note the variety of tricks.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well gee....what's so hard about it?

What's so hard about being certain about the other side? Nothing. There are millions who are certain. Maybe billions.

If you cross over, then a good chance there is.....many others will too.

I didn't dispute that. It has no relevance to what I posted.

There is hierarchy is this world.....likely to be some in the next.

Describe the heirarchy in this world.

The Higher powers having creation in hand....might be difficult to deal with.
See Job.

This is binary thinking. Are you completely unwilling to ever address anything raised?

 

[Thief]

What's so hard about being certain about the other side? Nothing. There are millions who are certain. Maybe billions.



I didn't dispute that. It has no relevance to what I posted.



Describe the heirarchy in this world.



This is binary thinking. Are you completely unwilling to ever address anything raised?

I see a struggle on your part to make denial.
Addressing your faint left and right leads no where.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I've come to think of RF members as family that I can be open with. I'll say things and I'll sound a little weird here.

If I were not influenced by religion, I swear, I could (some times would) have raped, stole, lied all the time, etc.

I've come across so many defenseless inviting-looking women at my peak desire, I'm entrusted with big amounts of easily spending money where I work (petty cash), I've had so many situations I could have gotten of with simple lies, but I didn't take those chances. Very strong urges hit me then and the coast was perfectly clear and safe, but I refused to do it as soon as I remembered my religious education.

I can't explain it further than I did a few posts ago, and even that might have been inaccurate, but this is the actual result I'm having.

Now, that might not apply with everyone, but think about it, if it worked with me, it ought to work with others. Isn't that a good thing? How many/much defenseless women, money and truths have been saved just because of the influence of religion!

Religion made a man that would never touch a women's dignity/honor, abuse a trust, put others in trouble in his place with a lie, etc. Religion made me who I am.

Just my thoughts. Please forgive me for being rude.

You did not come off as rude at all. That being said, however, just because it works for one, does not necessarily mean it works for all. For example, religion did the exact opposite for me. It caused me to discriminate against people based upon whether or not they adhered to my ideas of religion. Even to the point of threats of physical violence against them. It made me a rude, hypocritical, and generally unpleasant person. Although, that was probably due to other things I was struggling with at the time. Probably built-up anger stemming from me trying to reconcile certain aspects of my life with my religion at the time.

 

[Smart_Guy]

You did not come off as rude at all. That being said, however, just because it works for one, does not necessarily mean it works for all. For example, religion did the exact opposite for me. It caused me to discriminate against people based upon whether or not they adhered to my ideas of religion. Even to the point of threats of physical violence against them. It made me a rude, hypocritical, and generally unpleasant person. Although, that was probably due to other things I was struggling with at the time. Probably built-up anger stemming from me trying to reconcile certain aspects of my life with my religion at the time.

Sorry to know that man

Well, it is the duty of those whom it worked with to direct and help those whom it did not. An important part of religion (mine at least) is to be kind, lenient and wise. Anger, extremism, holding grudges, returning bad with bad, etc., are all things religion go against if other better alternatives were there. I could have been like you in some of them, but the teachings against that always came to my mind and stopped me. I won't lie, some of those things I didn't do because they were against my nature, but only some of them, and the others that my nature couldn't handle, religion did. Religion also enhanced and supported my nature that originally was against those it could handle.

As we live longer, we learn from this life and connect the teachings we had, whither religious of not, more with it. Don't be hard on your self, you can change to the better.

Bless you

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Sorry to know that man

Well, it is the duty of those whom it worked with to direct and help those whom it did not. An important part of religion (mine at least) is to be kind, lenient and wise. Anger, extremism, holding grudges, returning bad with bad, etc., are all things religion go against if other better alternatives were there. I could have been like you in some of them, but the teachings against that always came to my mind and stopped me. I won't lie, some of those things I didn't do because they were against my nature, but only some of them, and the others that my nature couldn't handle, religion did. Religion also enhanced and supported my nature that originally was against those it could handle.

As we live longer, we learn from this life and connect the teachings we had, whither religious of not, more with it. Don't be hard on your self, you can change to the better.

Bless you

Thanks. It seems to have worked for you. You are a pretty nice guy, so it seems.

 

[xkatz]

I don't go around sacrificing babies to Cthulu.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I don't go around sacrificing babies to Cthulu.

Oh, come on... all the cool kids are doing it.

 

[starlite]

Think of how much everyone would benefit if there were no abandoned mates, divorce courts, or child-custody cases. And what if there were no more pickpockets, shoplifters, embezzlers, corrupt officials, or fraudulent business persons? People who are faithful to their mates and who are honest not only are happier themselves but are good for society in general. Employers prefer workers who do not cheat. We all like to have trustworthy neighbors, and we like to shop in stores run by upright businessmen. Don't we respect politicians, policemen, and judges who shun corruption?

Society needs a framework of basic values that gives the people security and guidance. In my experience, most religions does not exert a powerful moral influence in the lives of the people. Many today have “a form of godly devotion” but prove “false to its power.” (2 Timothy 3:5) Their religious leaders have not set the right example, nor have the clergy given their flocks the needed Scriptural counsel to live morally. Many also view the Bible’s standards of morality as old-fashioned or unrealistic in our modern world. The Bible shows that God has feelings and that our conduct matters greatly to him. When a person comes to appreciate his heavenly Father, that individual's love for God will grow, motivating him to love what God loves and hate what God hates.

So, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I study God's Word, the Bible, learn the Bible principles that build moral values and then do my best to apply what I learn.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Think of how much everyone would benefit if there were no abandoned mates, divorce courts, or child-custody cases. And what if there were no more pickpockets, shoplifters, embezzlers, corrupt officials, or fraudulent business persons?

A religious theocracy... getting rid of embezzlers, corrupt officials, and fraudulent business persons? *pffffft*

 

[Smart_Guy]

Thanks. It seems to have worked for you. You are a pretty nice guy, so it seems.

Yeah, but believe me, religion had so much in making me this humble supposed nice guy. There are more than what meets the eyes you know (in this case, than simple conversations on a web forum heh ).

Best of luck buddy