How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?

[Soapy]

How could this statement be read/misread:

• ‘A great cook made a meal for his king. The meal was sumptuous and filling. The king giving was all praises to the cook and he was well satisfied with the meal. However, despite the pleasure of the moment, he did not enjoy anything else as he was killed as soon as the meal was over!’

Who was killed?

A trinitarian would say it was the king...!!

But common sense says it was the cook!!!

Why?

The cook had stolen the meat for the meal from the kings estate - illegally poached - and the king was informed.

Trinitarians would read the story and base their opinion on their DESIRED VIEW. No matter what was shown to them in the explanation, they would maintain their viewpoint.

As a simple example: In the Scriptures, ‘Father’, means, ‘Creator’... yet Trinitarians continue to maintain that the ‘Son’ is the creator...

Also, they believe that the Son was somehow CREATED by the Father - but then NOT CREATED by the Father...
In fact both are FALSE... because to a trinitarian BOTH ARE THE SAME ... in their views!! This is expressed as ‘Uncreated’ in their parlance... an uncreated creation!

Try this:

• From whence does the Son come in trinity?
• What is the meaning of the title, ‘Sons?
• Why does the Son inherit from the Father if the son is co-almighty with the Father?

These are only a few questions that pose absolute problems god Trinitarians to answer with any credibility.

Can anyone give a run at answering?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How could this statement be read/misread:

• ‘A great cook made a meal for his king. The meal was sumptuous and filling. The king giving was all praises to the cook and he was well satisfied with the meal. However, despite the pleasure of the moment, he did not enjoy anything else as he was killed as soon as the meal was over!’

Who was killed?

A trinitarian would say it was the king...!!

But common sense says it was the cook!!!

Why?

The cook had stolen the meat for the meal from the kings estate - illegally poached - and the king was informed.

Trinitarians would read the story and base their opinion on their DESIRED VIEW. No matter what was shown to them in the explanation, they would maintain their viewpoint.

As a simple example: In the Scriptures, ‘Father’, means, ‘Creator’... yet Trinitarians continue to maintain that the ‘Son’ is the creator...

Also, they believe that the Son was somehow CREATED by the Father - but then NOT CREATED by the Father...
In fact both are FALSE... because to a trinitarian BOTH ARE THE SAME ... in their views!! This is expressed as ‘Uncreated’ in their parlance... an uncreated creation!

Try this:

• From whence does the Son come in trinity?
• What is the meaning of the title, ‘Sons?
• Why does the Son inherit from the Father if the son is co-almighty with the Father?

These are only a few questions that pose absolute problems god Trinitarians to answer with any credibility.

Can anyone give a run at answering?

A lot of trinitarians won't answer the question because to separate christ from god is making christ human. When you make christ human, from their logic, he no longer can save a person from sins. Since salvation is important, any question of the nature of christ and god would put a dent on what they believed their own lives as believers.

I don't know if I met any christian (any) who can answer non-trinitarian view questions and still hold their beliefs nonetheless.

In other words, good luck?

 

[exchemist]

A lot of trinitarians won't answer the question because to separate christ from god is making christ human. When you make christ human, from their logic, he no longer can save a person from sins. Since salvation is important, any question of the nature of christ and god would put a dent on what they believed their own lives as believers.

I don't know if I met any christian (any) who can answer non-trinitarian view questions and still hold their beliefs nonetheless.

In other words, good luck?

Something wrong here. According to standard Christian belief, Christ was both truly God and truly human. The two are not considered mutually exclusive.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

How could this statement be read/misread:

• ‘A great cook made a meal for his king. The meal was sumptuous and filling. The king giving was all praises to the cook and he was well satisfied with the meal. However, despite the pleasure of the moment, he did not enjoy anything else as he was killed as soon as the meal was over!’

Who was killed?

A trinitarian would say it was the king...!!

But common sense says it was the cook!!!

Why?

The cook had stolen the meat for the meal from the kings estate - illegally poached - and the king was informed.

Trinitarians would read the story and base their opinion on their DESIRED VIEW. No matter what was shown to them in the explanation, they would maintain their viewpoint.

As a simple example: In the Scriptures, ‘Father’, means, ‘Creator’... yet Trinitarians continue to maintain that the ‘Son’ is the creator...

Also, they believe that the Son was somehow CREATED by the Father - but then NOT CREATED by the Father...
In fact both are FALSE... because to a trinitarian BOTH ARE THE SAME ... in their views!! This is expressed as ‘Uncreated’ in their parlance... an uncreated creation!

Try this:

• From whence does the Son come in trinity?
• What is the meaning of the title, ‘Sons?
• Why does the Son inherit from the Father if the son is co-almighty with the Father?

These are only a few questions that pose absolute problems god Trinitarians to answer with any credibility.

Can anyone give a run at answering?

Try this :
YOU are the "son" (Child), of your "Mother/Father".

"Holy Trinity" = "Father", "Mother" (Holy Spirit) and "Child" (Son).

see how easy this really is ?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Something wrong here. According to standard Christian belief, Christ was both truly God and truly human. The two are not considered mutually exclusive.

I think that's trying to make two things opposing things the same to easy the flow of jesus Just being god. If he is god, he can't be human. If he is human, he can't be god. The mysticism doesn't excuse the logic based on OT and NT definition and act of god. In a sense, in the human world, we can say the father is like the mirror image of his son (like father, like son). It doesn't depreciate the two. It's the same with christ and his father. Least that's how scripture speaks of it. But people's personal experiences makes them see scripture differently than someone from the outside seeing it objectively without being subjective to spiritual biases.

I would like to look more into what non-christian scholars and non-christian theologist interpret the trinity to be. That would be something to look up.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Try this :
YOU are the "son" (Child), of your "Mother/Father".

"Holy Trinity" = "Father", "Mother" (Holy Spirit) and "Child" (Son).

see how easy this really is ?

Mother???

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I think that's trying to make two things opposing things the same to easy the flow of jesus Just being god. If he is god, he can't be human. If he is human, he can't be god. The mysticism doesn't excuse the logic based on OT and NT definition and act of god. In a sense, in the human world, we can say the father is like the mirror image of his son (like father, like son). It doesn't depreciate the two. It's the same with christ and his father. Least that's how scripture speaks of it. But people's personal experiences makes them see scripture differently than someone from the outside seeing it objectively without being subjective to spiritual biases.

I would like to look more into what non-christian scholars and non-christian theologist interpret the trinity to be. That would be something to look up.

We ALL are "God", having a "human" experience.
This is WHY we are "children" ( sons and daughters ) of the UNION of our "Father/Mother",
here in this world.

"Holy Trinity" = "Father", "Mother" and "Son (Child),
simple, once you can "see" it.

Now please, don't try to tell me that you are not a child of your mother and father .

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Mother???

Yes indeed,
and just like they say down here,
"ain't nobody happy if mama ain't happy "

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Now please, don't try to tell me that you are not a child of your mother and father .

Okaye.... that's a change of tone. When everything was going just fine....

We ALL are "God", having a "human" experience.

This is WHY we are "children" ( sons and daughters ) of the UNION of our "Father/Mother",
here in this world.

"Holy Trinity" = "Father", "Mother" and "Son (Child),
simple, once you can "see" it.

Where did you get mother from?

Father-creator
Son-savior
Spirit-love/breathe/life/and all of that.

Humans have fathers and mothers. I never heard the creator having a mate. Do tell?

 

[exchemist]

I think that's trying to make two things opposing things the same to easy the flow of jesus Just being god. If he is god, he can't be human. If he is human, he can't be god. The mysticism doesn't excuse the logic based on OT and NT definition and act of god. In a sense, in the human world, we can say the father is like the mirror image of his son (like father, like son). It doesn't depreciate the two. It's the same with christ and his father. Least that's how scripture speaks of it. But people's personal experiences makes them see scripture differently than someone from the outside seeing it objectively without being subjective to spiritual biases.

I would like to look more into what non-christian scholars and non-christian theologist interpret the trinity to be. That would be something to look up.

Says who? Why can he not be both fully human and also God? Surely this is a large part of the beauty of the Christian message. Deum de Deo, lumen de lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero........ Et incarnatus est, de Spiritu Sancto ex Marina Virgine, et homo factus est.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Okaye.... that's a change of tone. When everything was going just fine....



Where did you get mother from?

Father-creator
Son-savior
Spirit-love/breathe/life/and all of that.

Humans have fathers and mothers. I never heard the creator having a mate. Do tell?

The Roman Church tried to hide it as best they could, by referring to the "Holy Spirit",
in the masculine noun "He". Like they did when they decided their own "canon" in order to gain control
over the masses.

Of course the OT "God" ( the FALSE one ) was a ""He", so what would you expect from a
"patriarchal religion" ?

Gnostics ( the True "Christians" ) know better, and the "Sacred Feminine", like gnostics,
has always been. And long before there was anything called "christianity' .

 

[Terry Sampson]

Trinitarians would read the story and

... might--like this Trinitarian--wonder what the hell are you talking about? Your story doesn't make sense and your conclusions don't "flow" from the story. You're either missing a couple of dots in your story or connecting dots that have no business being connected.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Okaye.... that's a change of tone. When everything was going just fine....



Where did you get mother from?

Father-creator
Son-savior
Spirit-love/breathe/life/and all of that.

Humans have fathers and mothers. I never heard the creator having a mate. Do tell?

I'm sure you would agree that the most galvanizing, the most important, and the most common thing
in this world that we as humanity share,
is the "FAMILY" ( father, mother, child ) .

Sound "familiar" ?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

... might--like this Trinitarian--wonder what the hell are you talking about? Your story doesn't make sense and your conclusions don't "flow" from the story. You're either missing a couple of dots in your story or connecting dots that have no business being connected.

C. All of the Above

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christianity is a patriarchy religion.

The Roman Church tried to hide it as best they could, by referring to the "Holy Spirit", in the masculine noun "He". Like they did when they decided their own "canon" in order to gain control over the masses.

Um. okaye?

The Holy Spirit (or Spirit) is just the breathe of god. It's taught that it's what brings us alive to being. Love and grace are good definitions of it.

As for who hid what, I'm not sure how that's a negative in this.

Of course the OT "God" ( the FALSE one ) was a ""He", so what would you expect from a "patriarchal religion" ?

Yes, it would. Nothing special about "he" than that.

Gnostics ( the True "Christians" ) know better, and the "Sacred Feminine", like gnostics, has always been. And long before there was anything called "christianity'

Christianity isn't gnostic. There is no she. Creator has always been portrayed as a male. In catholicism, she is the Church not a separate entity that "mates" with the creator.

Since you said this is long before christianity, I'm not sure why you're referring to the holy spirit of the christian faith. Christianity isn't unique, so I'm not getting where your argument lies.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Christianity is a patriarchy religion.



Um. okaye?

The Holy Spirit (or Spirit) is just the breathe of god. It's taught that it's what brings us alive to being. Love and grace are good definitions of it.

As for who hid what, I'm not sure how that's a negative in this.



Yes, it would. Nothing special about "he" than that.




Christianity isn't gnostic. There is no she. Creator has always been portrayed as a male. In catholicism, she is the Church not a separate entity that "mates" with the creator.

Since you said this is long before christianity, I'm not sure why you're referring to the holy spirit of the christian faith. Christianity isn't unique, so I'm not getting where your argument lies.

Then allow me to educate you,
We "gnostics" have existed long before there was anything called "Christianity".
We trace our lineage to Seth ( son of Adam ).

The early "church" was gnostic, as was Jesus and all the apostles.

The Roman Church tried relentlessly to "exterminate" us,
but no one seems to get it....
You can kill the messenger, but you can never kill the message.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then allow me to educate you,
We "gnostics" have existed long before there was anything called "Christianity".
We trace our lineage to Seth ( son of Adam ).

The early "church" was gnostic, as was Jesus and all the apostles.

The Roman Church tried relentlessly to "exterminate" us,
but no one seems to get it....
You can kill the messenger, but you can never kill the message.

Let me ask, how does gnosticism help with humility and perspective?

It sounds like you're taking this a bit personal. No one is threatening your belief system.

 

[Soapy]

I think that's trying to make two things opposing things the same to easy the flow of jesus Just being god. If he is god, he can't be human. If he is human, he can't be god. The mysticism doesn't excuse the logic based on OT and NT definition and act of god. In a sense, in the human world, we can say the father is like the mirror image of his son (like father, like son). It doesn't depreciate the two. It's the same with christ and his father. Least that's how scripture speaks of it. But people's personal experiences makes them see scripture differently than someone from the outside seeing it objectively without being subjective to spiritual biases.

I would like to look more into what non-christian scholars and non-christian theologist interpret the trinity to be. That would be something to look up.

... not, ‘Father is image of Son’... that is an impossibility! I think, I know, you meant: ‘Son is image of Father’!!!

As to finding out what non-trinity people think of the trinity.. please be careful where you look.

First off: You won’t find many that are truly Christian. You will find JW’s and Muslims mostly.

I am non-Trinitarian but am neither JW nor Muslim.

And don’t get drawn into the ‘Arian’ or modalist, or Jesus only, debates. These will all mislead and frustrate you. These are the favourite targets of Trinitarians because they are easy to attack and be shown to be at fault. And for good reason, too... they contain gulfs of errors.

So, where will you find the true anti-Trinitarian-Christian...?

They are rare creatures! Will you identify one when you read/hear one??

Think on these:

1. Yhwh God never ever said he was ‘One God’. He said he was the Israelites ONLY GOD.
2. In the beginning, YHWH GOD created the world and all within for his own pleasure
3. HE designed a world that was physical.. that is, having limitations and laws that restricted the activities of its inhabitants...
4. HE created objects and entities with differing levels of intelligence and desire to reproduce as a way of maintaining their species: plants, animals, fish, birds, insects, etc.
5. Finally, HE created a MANAGER to oversee his creation... because YHWH is proud, he made the ‘Man’ in a physical IMAGE of his own being... this means high intelligence, mastery, love, creativity, judicious, inventive, proud, nurturing, husbandrous, righteous, sinless, holy, wise... it certainly does not mean a visual image: flesh for flesh like a human-human (mirror) image: God is SPIRIT and formless!
6. The first Man, called Adam, was FATHER of ALL HUMANITY... he was created sinless and holy... as you might expect, being the image of his creator. However, Adam sinned and caused Yhwh God to regret creating the Man. But Yhwh relented from destroying his creation saying that if a holy and sinless MAN (offspring of Adam) could be found among Adams offspring, then the ultimate test would be put in place: SACRIFICE this sinless holy offspring as payment for the first man’s sin!!
7. But, as with all wise system builders, YHWH set up a contingency: A SECOND ADAM would be created if none were found among Adams offspring. A second and LAST ADAM ...MADE IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE FIRST...!!
8. Yhwh gave man(kind) thousands of years to produce an offspring that was sinless and holy... none was found. The man, DAVID, came the closest. But, no... none was found because David did sin!!!!
9. So, YHWH implemented his contingency... He set about creating a SAVIOUR, a MESSIAH, a CHRIST... HE made a SECOND ADAM... from the SEED OF A WOMAN. Remember that Adam was created from the DUST OF THE EARTH and ENLIVENED BY THE BREATH of his Spirit. This second Adam MUST be the SAME
10. And so it was: The SEED (egg) of a woman is expelled monthly ... expelled to the earth... it is NOT SACRED. It is INERT, unliving... It is the SPERM OF A MAN that gives it LIFE (hence the Male is called ‘Father’!!!) But it is this very sperm that ‘SPIRITUALLY’ carries the sin. So, the second Adam CANNOT come from a human-human offspring... the Second Adam was created by the egg being ‘overshadowed by the Holy Spirit of Yhwh’
11. And since the second Adam was created from the seed of a woman and the breath of yhwh God, the child born was ‘SINLESS AND HOLY’, just like the first Adam.
12. But this second Adam DID NOT SIN... and so was that perfect holy sinless man to pay the penance YHWH god desired
13. As a REWARD for dying, this second Adam was resurrected by YHWH and given KINGSHIP OVER THE CREATED WORLD
14. this Second Adam will RULE as king in a world that is physical on the Spiritual throne of the ‘David’ that God loved.
15. Yhwh created the physical world to be ruled by a physical Being. ‘It was created for him - for the sinless holy one!! which would have been the FIRST ADAM if he had not sinned’

Question: In the trinity, the Son... who is also this Second Adam (though trinnies won’t say this!) acquires the throne of David... WHY, if the Son is YHWH GOD, would this be a REWARD!!

Would you believe that I have yet to receive a response from a trinitarian concerning this question?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Let me ask, how does gnosticism help with humility and perspective?

It sounds like you're taking this a bit personal. No one is threatening your belief system.

I don't have any "belief system".
Maybe you should look up the word "gnosis", and go from there.

We are always "threatened", because we "know" everything.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't have any "belief system".
Maybe you should look up the word "gnosis", and go from there.

We are always "threatened", because we "know" everything.

Let me ask, how does gnosticism help with humility and perspective?