How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?

[Unveiled Artist]

You see, here you are being a perfect example of what I am saying to you now.
You have heard the word "antichrist" before, but you have NO CLUE what it means.

Just like ALL the people who call themselves "Christian", and don't know what that means either.
They read their Bibles and I guess they just skip over the verses they don't like or understand.
The Book of 1 John tells them what "antichrist" is, but they cannot "see" it.

"Little children, it is the last hour, and you have heard that ANTICHRIST is coming, so NOW
MANY ANTICHRIST have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour "

"They (antichristians) went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us. But their departure proved that they did not belong with us " (1John 2:18-19)

Gosh darnet with the bold and caps @WhyIsThatSo. I cannot understand what you're saying with all of that. Everyone has their different views on things. Most of the time religion is supposed to help people understand others not accuse and find faults in people "they can learn from."

Anyway. Either way, to me is irrelevant.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Gosh darnet with the bold and caps @WhyIsThatSo. I cannot understand what you're saying with all of that. Everyone has their different views on things. Most of the time religion is supposed to help people understand others not accuse and find faults in people "they can learn from."

Anyway. Either way, to me is irrelevant.

If it is irrelevant, then why are you asking questions about it ?
and I don't know how to spell it out for you any plainer than what I am doing.

This whole world has been deceived, that means you too.
But there are a few in this world who know the Truth.
We gnostics always have, that's why we were hunted down like wild animals and slaughtered by the Roman Church .
That's a historical fact, I don't need to prove it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you!

The topic is irrelevant to my life. I don't mine talking about any other topic but most topics on RF are really not something that brings meaning for me in an every day basis.

If it is irrelevant, then why are you asking questions about it ? and I don't know how to spell it out for you any plainer than what I am doing.

It sounds more you want me to agree with you rather than just saying I understand.

This whole world has been deceived, that means you too. But there are a few in this world who know the Truth.
We gnostics always have, that's why we were hunted down like wild animals and slaughtered by the Roman Church. That's a historical fact, I don't need to prove it.

The whole world has been deceived-that means you too. Are you not of this world?

This sounds a lot of ego rather than wisdom. Christianity isn't owned by any group of people. So, are you using me as a way to voice your disagreements of organized religion?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Thank you!

The topic is irrelevant to my life. I don't mine talking about any other topic but most topics on RF are really not something that brings meaning for me in an every day basis.

It sounds more you want me to agree with you rather than just saying I understand.



The whole world has been deceived-that means you too. Are you not of this world?

This sounds a lot of ego rather than wisdom. Christianity isn't owned by any group of people. So, are you using me as a way to voice your disagreements of organized religion?

Hey, if you are not interested in the Truth of your own existence,
then just go on back to "sleep".

I mistook your questioning for curiosity I guess.....my bad.

And no, I AM NOT of this world.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hey, if you are not interested in the Truth of your own existence,
then just go on back to "sleep".

I mistook your questioning for curiosity I guess.....my bad.

And no, I AM NOT of this world.

We each have our own truth. From how you're phrasing it, it doesn't sound like exchanging opinions but telling me who is right and who is wrong. I am curious when there is no "right/wrong" attached. It's unattractive especially from a religious point of view. The belief itself is irrelevant to my life. Though, I'm always curious why other people believe what they do.

I honestly don't see a difference between how you're describing gnosis compared to christianity.

Christianity isn't a denomination so basing it on authority is very limited. Christianity believes that jesus is the core of the human being. How people think and move all comes from christ. People are defined by him and thereby defined by his father.

They put christ and creator over Everything else including themselves. In other words, they see things "Greater" than the universe. "Higher" than all. And all the words that denote that to be grand means divine or to be mysterious means to be god. Things like that.

From what you're saying, the only few differences with gnosis is the emphasis on self more than christ? Jesus put more emphasis on his father rather than oneself and himself. Him being in you is the creator not the person.

As for the mystics around gnostics, I'm not sure. You're making it sound like you are the only one that has the complete truth.

Is that true?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

We each have our own truth. From how you're phrasing it, it doesn't sound like exchanging opinions but telling me who is right and who is wrong. I am curious when there is no "right/wrong" attached. It's unattractive especially from a religious point of view. The belief itself is irrelevant to my life. Though, I'm always curious why other people believe what they do.

I honestly don't see a difference between how you're describing gnosis compared to christianity.

Christianity isn't a denomination so basing it on authority is very limited. Christianity believes that jesus is the core of the human being. How people think and move all comes from christ. People are defined by him and thereby defined by his father.

They put christ and creator over Everything else including themselves. In other words, they see things "Greater" than the universe. "Higher" than all. And all the words that denote that to be grand means divine or to be mysterious means to be god. Things like that.

From what you're saying, the only few differences with gnosis is the emphasis on self more than christ? Jesus put more emphasis on his father rather than oneself and himself. Him being in you is the creator not the person.

As for the mystics around gnostics, I'm not sure. You're making it sound like you are the only one that has the complete truth.

Is that true?

"Gnosis" is Self-Knowledge.
Self = God.
So, "gnosis" is knowledge of God....DIRECT knowledge, because it's coming from within you, your SELF,
not from some outside source.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"Gnosis" is Self-Knowledge.
Self = God.
So, "gnosis" is knowledge of God....DIRECT knowledge, because it's coming from within you, your SELF,
not from some outside source.

Does gnosis believe in a concept of god (which is not always defined as an outside entity)?

 

[Milton Platt]

How could this statement be read/misread:

• ‘A great cook made a meal for his king. The meal was sumptuous and filling. The king giving was all praises to the cook and he was well satisfied with the meal. However, despite the pleasure of the moment, he did not enjoy anything else as he was killed as soon as the meal was over!’

Who was killed?

A trinitarian would say it was the king...!!

But common sense says it was the cook!!!

Why?

The cook had stolen the meat for the meal from the kings estate - illegally poached - and the king was informed.

Trinitarians would read the story and base their opinion on their DESIRED VIEW. No matter what was shown to them in the explanation, they would maintain their viewpoint.

As a simple example: In the Scriptures, ‘Father’, means, ‘Creator’... yet Trinitarians continue to maintain that the ‘Son’ is the creator...

Also, they believe that the Son was somehow CREATED by the Father - but then NOT CREATED by the Father...
In fact both are FALSE... because to a trinitarian BOTH ARE THE SAME ... in their views!! This is expressed as ‘Uncreated’ in their parlance... an uncreated creation!

Try this:

• From whence does the Son come in trinity?
• What is the meaning of the title, ‘Sons?
• Why does the Son inherit from the Father if the son is co-almighty with the Father?

These are only a few questions that pose absolute problems god Trinitarians to answer with any credibility.

Can anyone give a run at answering?

I think your question is ill-formed. It is easy for virtually everyone to misinterpret parts of a book written in a language that was dead for centuries used by a Bronze-aged culture.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mother???

There was someone in history (Nimrod?) who murdered his father to marry his mother and somehow involved a triad.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, I assure you, we do not believe that the Son was created...........................

Seems to me gospel writer John believed the Son (aka Jesus) was created.
At Revelation 3:14 John writes that pre-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
Only God was ' before ' the beginning of anything else according to Psalms 90:2 ( from everlasting)
So, Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.
This is why John believed that Jesus was ' in ' the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning.
Besides, according to Scripture Jesus did Not send himself to Earth, but his God sent Jesus to Earth.
Dead Jesus did Not resurrect himself out of the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:24-27.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God above him - Revelation 3:12

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Whose truth? Humility knows no sides

I find Jesus thought that it is God's Truth as found in Scripture. ALL Scripture...... as per 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
At John 17:17 Jesus said ' Thy Word is Truth '. In other words, the Bible is ' Religious Truth '.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Let me say this then,
The truth only "hurts" when it is SUPPOSED to .

I can't remember the exact wording but something like this:
About a good preacher: Comforts the distressed and distresses the complacent.

 

[firedragon]

Gnostic Christianity is the original Christianity. Jesus was gnostic and all the apostles were gnostic as well.
Jesus never started any kind of new "religion", The Roman Government started what you see today calling itself "Christianity",
almost 400 years AFTER Jesus was long gone. And it is NOTHING like what Jesus taught.

Jesus taught that we are to know God, by knowing ourselves. He taught "gnosis", which is a personal mystical spiritual
journey that we ALL must take , in order to "know yourself".

When you come to know who you are, then you know that you are Divine and a child of the Living God (Father).
When a person is lost, physically, they don't know where they are,
when a person is "lost", spiritually, they don't know who they are.

What you are saying is not actually what you mean to say.
Gnostic Christian is a phrase that doesn’t really means gnosis alone. Gnosis you defined right. But that’s not the actual meaning of gnostic Christians.

Also, the religion of Christianity as it exists now was not created 400 years later. Maybe it was created some time later, but existed way before the council of Nicaea if that’s what you implied.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Does gnosis believe in a concept of god (which is not always defined as an outside entity)?

Yes, that is exactly what I just said. Your Self is God, your consciousness is your "Self".
There is no God "outside" us. Everything outside us is an illusion ( not real ).
Through gnosis we learn that we are consciousness itself. And this consciousness is infinite and eternal.

So we can never get rid of our selves, no matter what is happening to us the observing SELF remains.
Even when we die it will be saying to us , "Look, now you are dead " .

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

What you are saying is not actually what you mean to say.
Gnostic Christian is a phrase that doesn’t really means gnosis alone. Gnosis you defined right. But that’s not the actual meaning of gnostic Christians.

Also, the religion of Christianity as it exists now was not created 400 years later. Maybe it was created some time later, but existed way before the council of Nicaea if that’s what you implied.

The council of Nicaea convened in 325 AD. That's 300 years after the death of Jesus.
There were other "councils" that followed and it was another 100 years or so before the "cannon" was established.

And thousands and thousands of years before Jesus was born, the prevailing thought
among ALL cultures was "gnostic" (gnosis), meaning they understood that "God" is within us.

""Know Thyself" was the only true "religion", as it was esoterically taught in every "Mystery School".
Jesus himself was taught in these schools in Egypt as a young man.
That's why there is no mention of him in the Bible once he fled Herod and went to Egypt until he was 30 years old.

Jesus was gnostic, and gnostic Christianity was the original and ONLY "Christianity" until almost 400 years after his death.
And what you see today calling itself Christianity is a substitute, a watered down version of mostly LIES and confusion.
And nothing like what Jesus and his followers taught.

"Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and the abominations of the earth "

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I can't remember the exact wording but something like this:
About a good preacher: Comforts the distressed and distresses the complacent.

Yes, the inference is the same,
and , thanks.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, that is exactly what I just said. Your Self is God, your consciousness is your "Self".
Through gnosis we learn that we are consciousness itself. And this consciousness is infinite and eternal.

So we can never get rid of our selves, no matter what is happening to us the observing SELF remains.
Even when we die it will be saying to us , "Look, now you are dead " .

In christianity, the consciousness or gnosis is seen as the holy spirit not an entity. It's not a casper or anything like that. It's the "spirit of christ" not christ himself. You experience this spirit by the love, grace, and life/breathe with which people "translate" as god. In other words, it's using an outside "reference" to explain and inside/conscious or gnosis experience. A lot of "spirit" supernatural religions are like that.

As for the Self, sounds more ego than it does humility etc. I don't see either right or wrong. I just see a lot of finger pointing.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

In christianity, the consciousness or gnosis is seen as the holy spirit not an entity. It's not a casper or anything like that. It's the "spirit of christ" not christ himself. You experience this spirit by the love, grace, and life/breathe with which people "translate" as god. In other words, it's using an outside "reference" to explain and inside/conscious or gnosis experience. A lot of "spirit" supernatural religions are like that.

As for the Self, sounds more ego than it does humility etc. I don't see either right or wrong. I just see a lot of finger pointing.

There are two of you.....your lower self, and your Higher Self.
The lower self is that mask you have on right now.....the "person" you think you are.
The role you are playing in this lifetime.

You ARE "Spirit", in a body of flesh, and that Spirit is your Higher Self. And that Spirit IS Christ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There are two of you.....your lower self, and your Higher Self.
The lower self is that mask you have on right now.....the "person" you think you are.
The role you are playing in this lifetime.

You ARE "Spirit", in a body of flesh, and that Spirit is your Higher Self. And that Spirit IS Christ.

Why does it need to be complicated and mystical?

We have who we are-our values, emotions how we interpret the world, our place in it. We have what we are-our body to live, our brains to think

Everything spiritual is interconnected. It doesn't need to be spirit-ual conscious gnosis language to say the same thing. To me, that's like people making mystery special as if being mystic brings up divine status somehow

 

[firedragon]

The council of Nicaea convened in 325 AD. That's 300 years after the death of Jesus.
There were other "councils" that followed and it was another 100 years or so before the "cannon" was established.

Canon doesnt mean Christianity didnt exist before council of Nicea. Try and read what the council of Nicea was all about and you would realise that Trinitarian Christianity is older than that.

Also, you keep defining what gnosis means. Thats correct. But, Gnostic Christianity is not exactly what you are depicting brother.

""Know Thyself" was the only true "religion", as it was esoterically taught in every "Mystery School".
Jesus himself was taught in these schools in Egypt as a young man.

There is no evidence to that. Some people say he was in India. Some say he was in Kashmir. But none of that is relevant, and there is no empirical evidence. Just theories. Maybe, maybe not. Again, thats irrelevant. I dont really understand why you would talk about this egypt matter anyway.

Jesus was gnostic, and gnostic Christianity was the original and ONLY "Christianity" until almost 400 years after his death.
And what you see today calling itself Christianity is a substitute, a watered down version of mostly LIES and confusion.
And nothing like what Jesus and his followers taught.

Absolutely and undoubtedly wrong. Question more.

Find out what Arian controversy is, and what was the opposition, and the reason for the council of Nicea. Then you will understand brother that you could not be more wrong.

Peace.