.... and Numbers 6:24-26 for you.
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How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?
- Thread starter Soapy
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Every christian, I'm sure, feels they have the correct interpretation whether or not they are expressive about it, depends on the person and culture, most likely. All christians are "weeds". So, it's best to challenge it to improve rather than point point fingers at others.
My question still stands, though.
Of course, every professing ' Christian ' feels or thinks they have the correct interpretation or why else belong to that denomination ____________.
In Scripture, ALL Christians are Not ' weeds', only the fake 'weed/tares ' are the weeds.
The genuine ' wheat ' Christians are Not weeds, however both grow together until the Harvest Time.
This coming Time of Separation to take place on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Or, as Jesus said MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false at Matthew 7:21-23.
The MANY are the 'weeds', or weed-like so-called Christians (Christendom).
Kind of like God planted a lawn with quality grass seeds.
An enemy comes along (aka Satan) and sows weeds into God's quality lawn.
Those pesty weeds are hard to get rid of, so God is coming back with Weed-Be-Gone.
When God fires up His Rototiller He'll just take out the weeds and keep the quality grass.
Only keep the quality ' wheat ' Christians.
WhyIsThatSo
Well-Known Member
No, not exactly. There is a big difference between something that is "created",
and something that is "emanated".
The Son is not "created", but emanates from the Father.
Just as "man" is the same "emanation" ( e-MAN- nation ).
Something created has a beginning, and therefore must have an end too.
Like this physical creation here is in a constant state of birth and decay ( life and death ).
But whatever "flows forth from" (emanates) from the Father, is a part of the Father,
and eternal ( no beginning and no end ).
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I love (hate, really) the argument about Jesus being created or born or whatever from God.
This is such a false argument that it falls within the category I expressed in the opening question.
The opening question was deliberately shaded to obscure information so that only those who understand linguistics properly would understand that ... if the king was the one killed, the whole of the rest of the story is pointless... If the king was set about to be killed, having a delicious meal by a great cook has nothing to do with it.
Yes, it is the COOK who was killed... the REVELATION given to you by me concerning the the things that took place ... reveal the truth.
What someone said about the cook ‘legitimately’ obtains the meat is not true. The king did not authorise the killing of the animal and he was only told of it after he had enjoyed the meal. OR he enjoyed the meal DESPITE knowing... (It’s my story and I’ll tell it how I designed it!! It’s presented to test understanding and how misinterpretations can go awry when full information is not properly presented)
————
There is NOTHING in scriptures about Jesus being ‘BORN FROM GOD’.
Anyone present the verse or verses???
Anyone?
Jesus did not create ANYTHING... If Jesus has created anything then he WOULD be called ‘FATHER’, because that is the definition of ‘Father’:
In fact, scriptures says that Jesus was MADE (given the titles of) both Lord and Christ.
We all say ‘Jesus Christ’ without understanding that ‘Christ’ just means:
Jesus’ special service (setting aside) is to become HIGH PRIEST TO GOD and KING OVER MANKIND - Firstborn over Creation...
And FIRSTBORN means:
Scriptures (O.T.) utterly illustrates ANOINTMENT.
These were with special oil that only prophets and priests held. Jesus was anointed with:
This is such a false argument that it falls within the category I expressed in the opening question.
The opening question was deliberately shaded to obscure information so that only those who understand linguistics properly would understand that ... if the king was the one killed, the whole of the rest of the story is pointless... If the king was set about to be killed, having a delicious meal by a great cook has nothing to do with it.
Yes, it is the COOK who was killed... the REVELATION given to you by me concerning the the things that took place ... reveal the truth.
What someone said about the cook ‘legitimately’ obtains the meat is not true. The king did not authorise the killing of the animal and he was only told of it after he had enjoyed the meal. OR he enjoyed the meal DESPITE knowing... (It’s my story and I’ll tell it how I designed it!! It’s presented to test understanding and how misinterpretations can go awry when full information is not properly presented)
————
There is NOTHING in scriptures about Jesus being ‘BORN FROM GOD’.
Anyone present the verse or verses???
Anyone?
Jesus did not create ANYTHING... If Jesus has created anything then he WOULD be called ‘FATHER’, because that is the definition of ‘Father’:
- Creator
- to give life to
- To bring into being
- To be HEAD
In fact, scriptures says that Jesus was MADE (given the titles of) both Lord and Christ.
We all say ‘Jesus Christ’ without understanding that ‘Christ’ just means:
- ‘Anointed one’
Jesus’ special service (setting aside) is to become HIGH PRIEST TO GOD and KING OVER MANKIND - Firstborn over Creation...
And FIRSTBORN means:
- ‘Most beloved of the Father’
Scriptures (O.T.) utterly illustrates ANOINTMENT.
These were with special oil that only prophets and priests held. Jesus was anointed with:
- ‘The oil of gladness’ - the Holy SPIRIT OF THE FATHER
- ‘Have this in mind that although Jesus was invested with the power of God, he did not seek to be equal to God but instead....... humbled himself!!
- Do not abuse authoritative powers
- Do not grieve the spirit of God
- the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God
- the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth...
- If Truth is grieved then there is NO HOPE!!!
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Which verse says this?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Which verse are you referring to?
WhyIsThatSo
Well-Known Member
Acts 17:28...for one.
"For IN Him we live and move and have our being. As some of our own poets have said, " We are His offspring ".
Also, "emanation" has a secret meaning too. It means "a MAN nation"
Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
In whose dictionary?
WhyIsThatSo
Well-Known Member
The Father's dictionary, but you won't find one in print.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Hi Firedragon,
Let me first ask if you are aware of the purpose of Anointing, as shown in the scriptures (Torah, particularly)?
But anyway, when a King is to be appointed by YHWH God, He sends a priest or prophet to that person. The priest or prophet takes the person aside and pours a special ‘Holy Oil’ over the appointee’s head to signify the ‘setting aside’.
In all normal cases, the appointee is ‘set aside’ for one and only one duty: ‘Kingship’ OR ‘Priesthood’.
However, in Jesus’ case, he is appointed BOTH King and HIGH Priest:
Prophecy:
- “But now your kingdom will not endure; the LORD has sought out a man after his own heart and appointed him ruler of his people,“ (1Samuel 13:14)
- “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,” (Ephesians 1:22)
- “and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.“
- “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."
Under Earth's conditions today: a beginning also has an end.
In Scripture, created Adam had a beginning in Eden (Genesis 2:7) and was offered No-ending life.
Adam was offered everlasting life ( life without end ) as long as Adam did Not break God's Law.
So, unlike lower forms of life, Adam could live forever if he obeyed his God.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before - Adam returned to dust - Genesis 3:19.
Pre-human Jesus was created according to gospel writer John at Revelation 3:14 B.
Pre-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
There was No death in heaven, angelic life was Not created to die.
The Sin of Rebellion is what changed that so that 'death ' for intelligent life now enters the picture.
Only through resurrected Jesus is the possibility of a resurrection back to live life again - Revelation 1:18.
I notice at KJV Psalms 110 that there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
One LORD is in ALL Upper-Case letters and the other Lord is in some lower-case letters.
I find the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) stands for the LORD God in ALL Upper-Case letters.
Whereas, Lord (in some lower-case letters) stand for the Lord Jesus (No Tetragrammaton there ).
So, yes it was LORD God (YHWH) who made Jesus both Lord and Messiah, King and High Priest.
Not sure which verse soapy is referring, but I find a list in the Bible book of Hebrews if you wish to consult:
Hebrews 3:1 Jesus apostle and High Priest.....
Hebrews 4:14 -15 Jesus ' great high priest...'
Hebrews 5:10 Jesus called of God high priest.....
Hebrews 6:20 Jesus made a high priest....
Hebrews 7:1 Melchizedek was both king and high priest ( Jesus was in that manner )
Hebrews 7:26-28 high priest who is holy.....
Hebrews 8:1-3 high priest set on the right hand of the Majesty in the heavens - Revelation 3:21
Hebrews 9:11 Christ... high priest of good things to come......
Since Jesus is King of God's kingdom government (Daniel 2:44) for a thousand years, then Jesus is rightly King over mankind. - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
This is a reason why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come!
Come and be both king and high priest over us.
As king taking care of our governmental needs
As high priest taking care of our spiritual needs
firedragon
Veteran Member
This verse does not say "Jesus is not created but emanated".
What you posted here is a part of the narration of what Paul said to the idling Athenians and their associates.
And there is no secret meaning like "A man nation" to the English word emanation. The word is starting with e, and its not a conjunction, and it is just no-sense.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Mate. Pots and pans are anointed in biblical literature. The meaning is a anoint, as the word means. Simple. Mishah, not pronounced like the English spelling, is a simple anointing like oil that someone uses to heal. And every one knows the meaning of the Mashiah in the hebrew tradition, but none of this is relevant to what i asked.
This is what you said.
"Jesus’ special service (setting aside) is to become HIGH PRIEST TO GOD and KING OVER MANKIND - Firstborn over Creation..."
I am only asking for references. There is no necessity for huge thesis's, with all due respect.
Brother, you were right. the bible does have enough verses that say all of this. I just wanted to know which ones you were referring to in order to understand what you are ultimately trying to say. The bible has many firstborns and that has its own connotation.
Anyway, thanks and peace.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Firedragon, are you a student or a baby in scriptures. Do you really need to be spoon fed scriptural knowledge? How then are you arguing against scriptural truth if you are still drinking milk and cannot stomach the meat?
‘Firstborn’, means, ‘Most beloved of the Father’. It is not ‘FIRST BORN’ as in the first child to open the womb, though the ‘First Born’ is also, initially at least, the ‘Firstborn’ of the Father.
Saul was ‘Firstborn’ of the Israelite nation and made ‘First born KING’ because of it. But God’s decision was that DAVID was His ‘Firstborn’ even though David was not ‘first born’ of his Father.
Anointed Pots and Pans? What are you talking about... Washing pots and pans with special oils is not a spiritually act... it’s most likely to stop them RUSTING at a time when no one knew about such things ... and just because the ACT OF ANOINTING is applied to an inanimate object, it does does profane the SPIRITUAL ACT set on a HUMAN BEING!
You err in the same way that Trinitarians misuse the word, ‘Obeisance’ to read, ‘Worship’ because the ACT IS SIMILAR...it is SIMPLY BOWING DOWN TO A MASTER or person of high worthy reverence. True WORSHIP is not an act of simply bowing down... indeed, the Jews desired to arrest Jesus for ANY ACT they deemed worthy against him. They WITNESSED persons ‘Worshipping’ Jesus... why didn’t they arrest Jesus and the persons...??? BECAUSE IT WAS NOT WORSHIP... but Trinitarians will absentmindedly and mindlessly claim that Jesus is God because he did not DISSUADE (or he ACCEPTED) such worship!!!
Truly, I see you are on the path of truth in some quarters but then you slip over the edge into pure nonsense beliefs due to lack of understand of CORE ASPECTS OF SCRIPTURES.
Brother,... I am seeking persons of truth... if you are ‘Led by the spirit of God’ then you’re will see God... you will see the TRUTH of God... but do not doubt that truth when it is presented to you.
You ask me for EVIDENCE... I gave you EVIDENCE but you refuse to believe it... What more can I show you that I don’t spend hours searching for minutiae of truth for you that are actually huge mountainous boulders in scriptures?
What I wrote, I find mainly ignored because the mind of the children in these forum are still fashioned on arguing on false ideologies. They argue about nonsense that are completely unprovable - fallacy cannot be proved as truth so their arguments are pointless and nothing is learnt... indeed, nothing CAN BE LEARNT because their arguments only end in blind alleys and then the disingenuousness starts in trying to prove they are not in a blind alley... so they resort to Trinitarian tristes - credal nonsense and the usual: ‘John 1:1’ and ‘Jesus said, “I Am”’, and ‘Jesus was in the form of God and therefore was God but he didn’t like it and became man!!’
Yes, they disclaim their own claim and create Jesus as A GOD while saying he IS GOD and that nonetheless he is the SAME GOD...
You notice there that no reference is made about a THIRD Being... yet they claim God is a trinity... are their maths so elementary that they don’t see that one is not three and two is not three and in any case God NEVER SAID HE WAS ONE... he said he was the Israelite‘s ONLY GOD!!!
And also THREE RULERS is POLYTHEISM.
‘Firstborn’, means, ‘Most beloved of the Father’. It is not ‘FIRST BORN’ as in the first child to open the womb, though the ‘First Born’ is also, initially at least, the ‘Firstborn’ of the Father.
Saul was ‘Firstborn’ of the Israelite nation and made ‘First born KING’ because of it. But God’s decision was that DAVID was His ‘Firstborn’ even though David was not ‘first born’ of his Father.
Anointed Pots and Pans? What are you talking about... Washing pots and pans with special oils is not a spiritually act... it’s most likely to stop them RUSTING at a time when no one knew about such things ... and just because the ACT OF ANOINTING is applied to an inanimate object, it does does profane the SPIRITUAL ACT set on a HUMAN BEING!
You err in the same way that Trinitarians misuse the word, ‘Obeisance’ to read, ‘Worship’ because the ACT IS SIMILAR...it is SIMPLY BOWING DOWN TO A MASTER or person of high worthy reverence. True WORSHIP is not an act of simply bowing down... indeed, the Jews desired to arrest Jesus for ANY ACT they deemed worthy against him. They WITNESSED persons ‘Worshipping’ Jesus... why didn’t they arrest Jesus and the persons...??? BECAUSE IT WAS NOT WORSHIP... but Trinitarians will absentmindedly and mindlessly claim that Jesus is God because he did not DISSUADE (or he ACCEPTED) such worship!!!
Truly, I see you are on the path of truth in some quarters but then you slip over the edge into pure nonsense beliefs due to lack of understand of CORE ASPECTS OF SCRIPTURES.
Brother,... I am seeking persons of truth... if you are ‘Led by the spirit of God’ then you’re will see God... you will see the TRUTH of God... but do not doubt that truth when it is presented to you.
You ask me for EVIDENCE... I gave you EVIDENCE but you refuse to believe it... What more can I show you that I don’t spend hours searching for minutiae of truth for you that are actually huge mountainous boulders in scriptures?
What I wrote, I find mainly ignored because the mind of the children in these forum are still fashioned on arguing on false ideologies. They argue about nonsense that are completely unprovable - fallacy cannot be proved as truth so their arguments are pointless and nothing is learnt... indeed, nothing CAN BE LEARNT because their arguments only end in blind alleys and then the disingenuousness starts in trying to prove they are not in a blind alley... so they resort to Trinitarian tristes - credal nonsense and the usual: ‘John 1:1’ and ‘Jesus said, “I Am”’, and ‘Jesus was in the form of God and therefore was God but he didn’t like it and became man!!’
Yes, they disclaim their own claim and create Jesus as A GOD while saying he IS GOD and that nonetheless he is the SAME GOD...
You notice there that no reference is made about a THIRD Being... yet they claim God is a trinity... are their maths so elementary that they don’t see that one is not three and two is not three and in any case God NEVER SAID HE WAS ONE... he said he was the Israelite‘s ONLY GOD!!!
And also THREE RULERS is POLYTHEISM.
WhyIsThatSo
Well-Known Member
Jesus never called Himself the "Son of God", not once.
But 29 times in Mathew, 14 times in Mark, 26 times in Luke, and 13 times in John,
Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of Man"
WHY do you think this is so ?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Hmm.
Son of man or bar nashaa in Aramaic is a simple word that means "human". It is mentioned over 160 times in the whole bible, so many people are called that including Ezekiel. In the Tanakh, it is Ben Adham. A common phrase.
I don't understand why you asked me this question but yet I have honoured your question. Yet, I'm curious to know why I was asked this if you don't mind.
Peace.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
This is an argument from sola scriptura, which is a heresy not invented until after 1500 ce.