How feelings are the only things that make things and situations matter to us

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am going to post yet another example of how feelings are the only things that make our lives matter and things/situations matter to us. Imagine someone who could never feel sad about the people who were always dying next to him/her. The death of these people would not matter to him/her.

He/she would be completely apathetic towards the death of these people if he/she could not feel anything from that. Imagine, from there, that he/she were somehow given the ability to feel sad from the death of these people. He/she would now report that this was truly the most tragic and horrible thing for him/her to witness.

This is what I mean here when I say that our feelings are the only things that make our lives matter to us in either the most horrible and tragic ways (our unpleasant feelings) or they make our lives the most beautiful, joyful, happy, valuable, and worthwhile experience for us (our pleasant feelings). You would actually be lying and fooling yourself if you think that things and situations can matter to you without your feelings.

My example with the person having no ability to feel sad is a clear example of how you would be lying and fooling yourself. My other example that clearly indicates how you would be lying and fooling yourself would be with a sociopath who cannot feel any love or compassion towards other innocent living things and people.

This sociopath would not care about other innocent living things and people. They would be nothing more than mere tools for him/her to torture, abuse, and take advantage of. Since this sociopath only feels good about getting what he/she wants and torturing other people/innocent living things, then this is the only thing that matters to this sociopath.

The idea that these innocent living things and people were in pain, suffering, and were taken advantage of would not matter to this sociopath since this sociopath cannot feel anything bad from that. Therefore, as you can clearly see here, feelings are all there is to life. Anyone who claims that there is more to life than how we feel are lying.

Now you understand why I need my good feelings to make my life and everything in it matter to me in a good way to give my life value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, etc. Having no feelings or having depression (hopelessness) and misery only renders my life completely devoid and empty. My life is absolutely nothing at all when I am in that state of mind.

Good feelings give our lives good value and make our lives worth living, bad feelings give our lives bad value, and having no feelings at all gives our lives no value and no worth.

 

[crowfeather]

Feelings stab you in the back more often than providing contentment.
Only by sidelining them do you experience Reality: what exists independently of how you feel about it.

 

[Nakosis]

I am going to post yet another example of how feelings are the only things that make our lives matter and things/situations matter to us. Imagine someone who could never feel sad about the people who were always dying next to him/her. The death of these people would not matter to him/her.

Pretty much what happens to Alzheimer patients. They lose the connection to family and friends.

He/she would be completely apathetic towards the death of these people if he/she could not feel anything from that. Imagine, from there, that he/she were somehow given the ability to feel sad from the death of these people. He/she would now report that this was truly the most tragic and horrible thing for him/her to witness.

This is what I mean here when I say that our feelings are the only things that make our lives matter to us in either the most horrible and tragic ways (our unpleasant feelings) or they make our lives the most beautiful, joyful, happy, valuable, and worthwhile experience for us (our pleasant feelings). You would actually be lying and fooling yourself if you think that things and situations can matter to you without your feelings.

My example with the person having no ability to feel sad is a clear example of how you would be lying and fooling yourself. My other example that clearly indicates how you would be lying and fooling yourself would be with a sociopath who cannot feel any love or compassion towards other innocent living things and people.

This sociopath would not care about other innocent living things and people. They would be nothing more than mere tools for him/her to torture, abuse, and take advantage of. Since this sociopath only feels good about getting what he/she wants and torturing other people/innocent living things, then this is the only thing that matters to this sociopath.

The idea that these innocent living things and people were in pain, suffering, and were taken advantage of would not matter to this sociopath since this sociopath cannot feel anything bad from that. Therefore, as you can clearly see here, feelings are all there is to life. Anyone who claims that there is more to life than how we feel are lying.

Except of course if you happen to be that sociopath

Now you understand why I need my good feelings to make my life and everything in it matter to me in a good way to give my life value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, etc. Having no feelings or having depression (hopelessness) and misery only renders my life completely devoid and empty. My life is absolutely nothing at all when I am in that state of mind.

Good feelings give our lives good value and make our lives worth living, bad feelings give our lives bad value, and having no feelings at all gives our lives no value and no worth.

So how do you go about creating good feelings?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am going to post yet another example of how feelings are the only things that make our lives matter and things/situations matter to us. Imagine someone who could never feel sad about the people who were always dying next to him/her. The death of these people would not matter to him/her.

He/she would be completely apathetic towards the death of these people if he/she could not feel anything from that. Imagine, from there, that he/she were somehow given the ability to feel sad from the death of these people. He/she would now report that this was truly the most tragic and horrible thing for him/her to witness.

This is what I mean here when I say that our feelings are the only things that make our lives matter to us in either the most horrible and tragic ways (our unpleasant feelings) or they make our lives the most beautiful, joyful, happy, valuable, and worthwhile experience for us (our pleasant feelings). You would actually be lying and fooling yourself if you think that things and situations can matter to you without your feelings.

This isn't necessarily true; a person doesn't need an emotional stake in order to conclude that they would rather x happened rather than y. For instance, even if the person felt no emotional connection to the deaths of these people, they could still understand "this person has family who will feel sad if they die" or "if this person dies while driving this car it will result in the car most likely crashing". They don't have to feel that the event is tragic for them to understand the negative consequences of it and thus to care about its outcome.

My example with the person having no ability to feel sad is a clear example of how you would be lying and fooling yourself. My other example that clearly indicates how you would be lying and fooling yourself would be with a sociopath who cannot feel any love or compassion towards other innocent living things and people.

This sociopath would not care about other innocent living things and people. They would be nothing more than mere tools for him/her to torture, abuse, and take advantage of. Since this sociopath only feels good about getting what he/she wants and torturing other people/innocent living things, then this is the only thing that matters to this sociopath.

Do you not realize that there are clinically diagnosed sociopaths (now generally referred to as "anti-social personality disorder") who still lead perfectly functional, even productive, lives? Approximately 3% of the adult male and 1% of the adult female population of America have it:

14 Odd Antisocial Personality Disorder Statistics - HRFnd

The idea that these innocent living things and people were in pain, suffering, and were taken advantage of would not matter to this sociopath since this sociopath cannot feel anything bad from that. Therefore, as you can clearly see here, feelings are all there is to life. Anyone who claims that there is more to life than how we feel are lying.

You're using circular reasoning. You are saying "this wouldn't matter to them because they cannot feel anything bad from it: therefore, feeling is all that matters".

You have yet to demonstrate that an emotional connection is strictly necessary to actually care about the consequences of certain actions. You're just asserting that it is.

Now you understand why I need my good feelings to make my life and everything in it matter to me in a good way to give my life value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, etc. Having no feelings or having depression (hopelessness) and misery only renders my life completely devoid and empty. My life is absolutely nothing at all when I am in that state of mind.

Not really.

Good feelings give our lives good value and make our lives worth living, bad feelings give our lives bad value, and having no feelings at all gives our lives no value and no worth.

You haven't demonstrated that. Do you think bees have no value or worth?

 

[George-ananda]

I am going to post yet another example of how feelings are the only things that make our lives matter and things/situations matter to us. Imagine someone who could never feel sad about the people who were always dying next to him/her. The death of these people would not matter to him/her.

He/she would be completely apathetic towards the death of these people if he/she could not feel anything from that. Imagine, from there, that he/she were somehow given the ability to feel sad from the death of these people. He/she would now report that this was truly the most tragic and horrible thing for him/her to witness.

This is what I mean here when I say that our feelings are the only things that make our lives matter to us in either the most horrible and tragic ways (our unpleasant feelings) or they make our lives the most beautiful, joyful, happy, valuable, and worthwhile experience for us (our pleasant feelings). You would actually be lying and fooling yourself if you think that things and situations can matter to you without your feelings.

My example with the person having no ability to feel sad is a clear example of how you would be lying and fooling yourself. My other example that clearly indicates how you would be lying and fooling yourself would be with a sociopath who cannot feel any love or compassion towards other innocent living things and people.

This sociopath would not care about other innocent living things and people. They would be nothing more than mere tools for him/her to torture, abuse, and take advantage of. Since this sociopath only feels good about getting what he/she wants and torturing other people/innocent living things, then this is the only thing that matters to this sociopath.

The idea that these innocent living things and people were in pain, suffering, and were taken advantage of would not matter to this sociopath since this sociopath cannot feel anything bad from that. Therefore, as you can clearly see here, feelings are all there is to life. Anyone who claims that there is more to life than how we feel are lying.

Now you understand why I need my good feelings to make my life and everything in it matter to me in a good way to give my life value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, etc. Having no feelings or having depression (hopelessness) and misery only renders my life completely devoid and empty. My life is absolutely nothing at all when I am in that state of mind.

Good feelings give our lives good value and make our lives worth living, bad feelings give our lives bad value, and having no feelings at all gives our lives no value and no worth.

Well, this is one of your best posts in my opinion.

YES, the only thing that matters in this universe is subjective experiencing. Without that there is nothing but unfeeling clueless atoms moving around with nothing that cares.

So, the most important thing in life is to experience peace, love and happiness. It can be hard work though to control the mind to have those things.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

This isn't necessarily true; a person doesn't need an emotional stake in order to conclude that they would rather x happened rather than y. For instance, even if the person felt no emotional connection to the deaths of these people, they could still understand "this person has family who will feel sad if they die" or "if this person dies while driving this car it will result in the car most likely crashing". They don't have to feel that the event is tragic for them to understand the negative consequences of it and thus to care about its outcome.


Do you not realize that there are clinically diagnosed sociopaths (now generally referred to as "anti-social personality disorder") who still lead perfectly functional, even productive, lives? Approximately 3% of the adult male and 1% of the adult female population of America have it:

14 Odd Antisocial Personality Disorder Statistics - HRFnd


You're using circular reasoning. You are saying "this wouldn't matter to them because they cannot feel anything bad from it: therefore, feeling is all that matters".

You have yet to demonstrate that an emotional connection is strictly necessary to actually care about the consequences of certain actions. You're just asserting that it is.


Not really.


You haven't demonstrated that. Do you think bees have no value or worth?

Bees would have to have no value and no worth in their lives then. They would be nothing more than mere life forms surviving. Even though they do things that give the impression that they have value and worth in their lives despite the fact that they cannot feel, they actually don't have any value and worth in their lives.

Lastly, the situations you've described regarding how people can still perceive value and worth in situations without their feelings wouldn't be real value and worth here. It would only be a matter of them thinking that one situation holds value and worth over the other, but it would be nothing more than just a mindset. It is only our feelings themselves that hold a certain quality of experience to them. This quality of experience, in of itself, independent of our value judgments, is an experience that gives real good value, real worth, real joy, real beauty (our good feelings) and real suffering, real bad value, and real misery (our bad feelings) to things and situations to us in our lives.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I am going to post yet another example of how feelings are the only things that make our lives matter and things/situations matter to us. Imagine someone who could never feel sad about the people who were always dying next to him/her. The death of these people would not matter to him/her.

He/she would be completely apathetic towards the death of these people if he/she could not feel anything from that. Imagine, from there, that he/she were somehow given the ability to feel sad from the death of these people. He/she would now report that this was truly the most tragic and horrible thing for him/her to witness.

This is what I mean here when I say that our feelings are the only things that make our lives matter to us in either the most horrible and tragic ways (our unpleasant feelings) or they make our lives the most beautiful, joyful, happy, valuable, and worthwhile experience for us (our pleasant feelings). You would actually be lying and fooling yourself if you think that things and situations can matter to you without your feelings.

My example with the person having no ability to feel sad is a clear example of how you would be lying and fooling yourself. My other example that clearly indicates how you would be lying and fooling yourself would be with a sociopath who cannot feel any love or compassion towards other innocent living things and people.

This sociopath would not care about other innocent living things and people. They would be nothing more than mere tools for him/her to torture, abuse, and take advantage of. Since this sociopath only feels good about getting what he/she wants and torturing other people/innocent living things, then this is the only thing that matters to this sociopath.

The idea that these innocent living things and people were in pain, suffering, and were taken advantage of would not matter to this sociopath since this sociopath cannot feel anything bad from that. Therefore, as you can clearly see here, feelings are all there is to life. Anyone who claims that there is more to life than how we feel are lying.

Now you understand why I need my good feelings to make my life and everything in it matter to me in a good way to give my life value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, etc. Having no feelings or having depression (hopelessness) and misery only renders my life completely devoid and empty. My life is absolutely nothing at all when I am in that state of mind.

Good feelings give our lives good value and make our lives worth living, bad feelings give our lives bad value, and having no feelings at all gives our lives no value and no worth.

Of course. Without emotional content we are merely a sequence of events localized to an agreed upon boundary. What makes ANYTHING matter to a subject is strong feelings one way or the other.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Of course. Without emotional content we are merely a sequence of events localized to an agreed upon boundary. What makes ANYTHING matter to a subject is strong feelings one way or the other.

But the previous poster above disagreed with me and gave a rebuttal to me. I responded back. Therefore, go ahead and read his post and my response to it. Then get back to me with your assessment.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

But the previous poster above disagreed with me and gave a rebuttal to me. I responded back. Therefore, go ahead and read his post and my response to it. Then get back to me with your assessment.

Surely.

The poster in question posited a scenario in which an emotionless being would still do the 'right thing'(which is in and of itself an emotional judgement if we aren't talking about math) and for some reason avoid harming others(reasons unknown). I see no reason such a being would care one way or the other.

Honestly, unless this being was behaving according to a computer program, I see no reason why such a being should do anything at all, short of eating due to hunger pain and sleeping when needed.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Surely.

The poster in question posited a scenario in which an emotionless being would still do the 'right thing'(which is in and of itself an emotional judgement if we aren't talking about math) and for some reason avoid harming others(reasons unknown). I see no reason such a being would care one way or the other.

Honestly, unless this being was behaving according to a computer program, I see no reason why such a being should do anything at all, short of eating due to hunger pain and sleeping when needed.

So, would you agree then that people who struggle with depression and/or anhedonia in which they don't have their good feelings are living lives that have no value and no worth? Do you agree that they should just end their lives if they cannot recover their good feelings back to them within a reasonable time frame?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

So, would you agree then that people who struggle with depression and/or anhedonia in which they don't have their good feelings are living lives that have no value and no worth? Do you agree that they should just end their lives if they cannot recover their good feelings back to them within a reasonable time frame?

No, and no.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

No, and no.

Why not? I think that contradicts what you said earlier.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am going to post yet another example of how feelings are the only things that make our lives matter and things/situations matter to us. Imagine someone who could never feel sad about the people who were always dying next to him/her. The death of these people would not matter to him/her.

He/she would be completely apathetic towards the death of these people if he/she could not feel anything from that. Imagine, from there, that he/she were somehow given the ability to feel sad from the death of these people. He/she would now report that this was truly the most tragic and horrible thing for him/her to witness.

This is what I mean here when I say that our feelings are the only things that make our lives matter to us in either the most horrible and tragic ways (our unpleasant feelings) or they make our lives the most beautiful, joyful, happy, valuable, and worthwhile experience for us (our pleasant feelings). You would actually be lying and fooling yourself if you think that things and situations can matter to you without your feelings.

My example with the person having no ability to feel sad is a clear example of how you would be lying and fooling yourself. My other example that clearly indicates how you would be lying and fooling yourself would be with a sociopath who cannot feel any love or compassion towards other innocent living things and people.

This sociopath would not care about other innocent living things and people. They would be nothing more than mere tools for him/her to torture, abuse, and take advantage of. Since this sociopath only feels good about getting what he/she wants and torturing other people/innocent living things, then this is the only thing that matters to this sociopath.

The idea that these innocent living things and people were in pain, suffering, and were taken advantage of would not matter to this sociopath since this sociopath cannot feel anything bad from that. Therefore, as you can clearly see here, feelings are all there is to life. Anyone who claims that there is more to life than how we feel are lying.

Now you understand why I need my good feelings to make my life and everything in it matter to me in a good way to give my life value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, etc. Having no feelings or having depression (hopelessness) and misery only renders my life completely devoid and empty. My life is absolutely nothing at all when I am in that state of mind.

Good feelings give our lives good value and make our lives worth living, bad feelings give our lives bad value, and having no feelings at all gives our lives no value and no worth.

I dunno. There are many examples in the natural world that counter that assumption.

Ever see wild animals having fun and relaxing in the sun?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Bees would have to have no value and no worth in their lives then. They would be nothing more than mere life forms surviving. Even though they do things that give the impression that they have value and worth in their lives despite the fact that they cannot feel, they actually don't have any value and worth in their lives.

Based on what? Bees produce tremendous benefits to countless other organisms and ecosystems - of course their lives have value.

Lastly, the situations you've described regarding how people can still perceive value and worth in situations without their feelings wouldn't be real value and worth here. It would only be a matter of them thinking that one situation holds value and worth over the other, but it would be nothing more than just a mindset.

How is that any different from valuing something just because of your feelings for it? Just because you may be more emotionally upset about your pet gerbil dying than someone who you never met, it doesn't mean that the person you never met had less "real value" than your gerbil. That's just silly.

It is only our feelings themselves that hold a certain quality of experience to them. This quality of experience, in of itself, independent of our value judgments, is an experience that gives real good value, real worth, real joy, real beauty (our good feelings) and real suffering, real bad value, and real misery (our bad feelings) to things and situations to us in our lives.

Why? Why are feelings any more intrinsically valuable than experience, knowledge or understanding? As I have already shown, people who lack emotional response can and do lead productive lives.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Based on what? Bees produce tremendous benefits to countless other organisms and ecosystems - of course their lives have value.


How is that any different from valuing something just because of your feelings for it? Just because you may be more emotionally upset about your pet gerbil dying than someone who you never met, it doesn't mean that the person you never met had less "real value" than your gerbil. That's just silly.


Why? Why are feelings any more intrinsically valuable than experience, knowledge or understanding? As I have already shown, people who lack emotional response can and do lead productive lives.

Read what Satans_Serrated_Edge has written to get the idea.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Read what Satans_Serrated_Edge has written to get the idea.

They didn't really say anything that refuted what I wrote. Do you or do you not understand that a person doesn't need an emotional stake in a given circumstance to understand how the outcome of that circumstance can still positively or negatively affect others and still act accordingly?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

They didn't really say anything that refuted what I wrote. Do you or do you not understand that a person doesn't need an emotional stake in a given circumstance to understand how the outcome of that circumstance can still positively or negatively affect others and still act accordingly?

You are claiming that these people are making these value assessments without emotions. But if they are doing so, then I think they would need emotion on at least some given level. But if they really were making these value assessments without any emotions at all, then I think that is not any real value and worth going on in the person's life and is instead a situation where the person performs acts, gestures, tones, decisions, etc. that resemble value and worth in the person's life, but is not any real value and worth in this person's life. It's all about how I define value and worth. I do not define it as anything else other than our feelings.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You are claiming that these people are making these value assessments without emotions.

Not quite. I'm claiming that an emotional stake isn't strictly necessary to make a value judgement.

But if they are doing so, then I think they would need emotion on at least some given level.

How? A bee can make a value assessment as to which flower is better to pollinate, and it is this process which keeps the populations of bees alive and, ultimately, sustains global ecosystems. And they do this without emotions.

But if they really were making these value assessments without any emotions at all, then I think that is not any real value and worth going on in the person's life and is instead a situation where the person performs acts, gestures, tones, decisions, etc. that resemble value and worth in the person's life, but is not any real value and worth in this person's life. It's all about how I define value and worth. I do not define it as anything else other than our feelings.

Why is value and worth based on feelings any "truer" than value and worth without emotions? This is what you have yet to actually establish. And if it's just because you DEFINE value and worth as necessarily emotional responses, then your argument is doubly circular: people can't have value and worth without emotion because emotion is necessary for value and worth, so without emotion there can be no value or worth. You're just chasing your own tail and defining a meaningless tautology.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Not quite. I'm claiming that an emotional stake isn't strictly necessary to make a value judgement.


How? A bee can make a value assessment as to which flower is better to pollinate, and it is this process which keeps the populations of bees alive and, ultimately, sustains global ecosystems. And they do this without emotions.


Why is value and worth based on feelings any "truer" than value and worth without emotions? This is what you have yet to actually establish. And if it's just because you DEFINE value and worth as necessarily emotional responses, then your argument is doubly circular: people can't have value and worth without emotion because emotion is necessary for value and worth, so without emotion there can be no value or worth. You're just chasing your own tail and defining a meaningless tautology.

I base this on my own personal life experience. During my moments of anhedonia and depression, it didn't matter what I thought to myself and what value judgments I had. All these thoughts and value judgments seemed completely empty. It really seemed as though my good feelings were truly the only things that can fill in that emptiness and make my life a beautiful paradise filled with value, joy, beauty, and worth. That is why I conclude that our good feelings are the only things that can give real value, real joy, real beauty, and real worth to our lives.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I base this on my own personal life experience. During my moments of anhedonia and depression, it didn't matter what I thought to myself and what value judgments I had. All these thoughts and value judgments seemed completely empty. It really seemed as though my good feelings were truly the only things that can fill in that emptiness and make my life a beautiful paradise filled with value, joy, beauty, and worth. That is why I conclude that our good feelings are the only things that can give real value, real joy, real beauty, and real worth to our lives.

So it's purely based only on your narrow perception and doesn't take into account anybody else's experience (including other sufferers of anhedonia).